People don't play 302 games for United under SAF unless they're good.
Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances
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People don't play 302 games for United under SAF unless they're good.
This thread isn't about Darren Fletcher. Take it somewhere else.
In a deeper role for United you are expected to have some technical ability, you will be initiating attacks. If Fletcher's just a destroyer there is little reason to shoe-horn him into a deeper role when he can't fulfill his potential due to his illness.
Because he does a job AC, no-one is denying that. He was very effective back in 09. My concern with him is he has never been effective enough when played in a pair, which is our usual and most common formation.
As a DM in a pair, we are too open. As the more creative in a pair he is not good enough technically imo. I just don't think he is good enough at fulfilling a specific role, which in a pair you often need.
Fletcher/Scholes, Fletcher/Ando, Fletcher/ Carrick. Any of them been particularly effective partnerships over the past 4/5 seasons?
The Carrick and Fletcher one is solid but completely uncreative, which is my point. you know what Carrick is going to bring, so the impetus is on Fletch to offer a bit more offensively which he is regularly unable to do.
Carrick/Scholes, Carrick/Anderson Cleverley/Anderson, however have been very effective pairings at times, because a specific role is being fulfilled by the respective partners.
Don't confuse the fact as many seem to, that because i feel Fletcher is limited in a pair i must think he is crap. I certainly do not, but in a pairing i do feel he is not good enough at anything specific to be a regularly positive influence, and the general effectiveness of the pairings of which he is a part, do not compare favorably with other pairings.
The fact his best season came when we employed 3 in the middle more often than 2 surely only lends credence to my claim.
Some of you are really under rating fletchers ability. He's far more than a water carrier. He's not a specialist passer or anything like that but he's still a very good passer, got a great cross, his quick ground passing has always been overlooked. As he played more his play with ball to feet became a lot better and he is excellent and navigating out of tight situations. Attacking wise his movement is pretty good and personally I think with carrick getting back to form it would have freed fletch to push on more and he'd have got a decent goal return. Add to that his energy and defensive abiltiy and he has a lot going for him. His attitude is also great, in the big games it can make a big difference. He's not a scholes/Modric play maker, he's not a defensive midfielder but an old fashioned box to box player and he's a very good one.
I was watching that Aston villa game on mutv that machda scored in and fletcher was brilliant in it and showed he has a lot more to his game then just a destroyer.
I was watching that Aston villa game on mutv that machda scored in and fletcher was brilliant in it and showed he has a lot more to his game then just a destroyer.
Fair point. We have gone a bit overboard i suppose.
I'm sure the Flecther/Scholes combo had it's moments. To be fair to Fletch at his best he's probably the most suitable midfield player we have for our system.
Really? well i can't remember too many of them. The Clev and Ando partnership showed what this team is capable of going forward. My last word on this, as we have hijacked this thread, is that for someone who is allegedly so well suited to playing in a pair, it is pretty ironic that his best season coincided with us playing 3 in the middle, moreso than any other season.
It is ironic indeed, hopefully he gets healthy again. Anyway Cleverley is amazing.
I like how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post, where I basically said that in the cases Fletcher has been deployed in a deep role a'la Carrick we have lacked defensive stability, and that he was only deployed in that role a few games because of lack of options.
He works well as a destroyer, not as a deep lying CM.
Cleverley is amazing, if you want to discuss the merits of Darren Fletcher in midfield I'm sure you can find the appropriate thread.
If Butt reckons Cleverley's a better technical player than him then he must be special.
Great prospect. People do need to calm down a bit IMO though.
Tom Cleverley passing stats v Ajax: 46 attempted passes 45 successful (98%) with 100% in the attacking third (16/16).
You can prove anything with facts.
Ok, so now you are trying to make it seem like you arent at least as culpable of carrying on the Fletcher discussion in this thread? Half the posts about Fletcher here are from you.
Cleverley looked annoyed when he was substituted and still looked fed up on the bench. Why was Park not brought off?
Because Cleverley is coming back from a lay off and will probably start at the weekend. Not his best game tonight Cleverley, I think he needs an experienced CM next to him, he still needs to learn a few little things about positioning but he's a great prospect.
Cleverley will start on Sunday. Fergie wants to bring him along slowly, so he doesn't get injured again, and Cleverley is just eager to play as much as possible after being out for so long.
Nah, Tom was knackered. Doin far more chasin than he would have liked in the hour he was on the pitch. Overrun in the middle of the park. He's been out for 4 months and only his 2nd game back remember. Park despite being shit at least has the experience and a calm head. Was right to keep him on.
I think just having any sort of actual CM next to him would be fine, not a winger who has only ever looked competent in the midfield when played in a midfield 3.
Really poor, but I guess understandable performance. Game completely passed him by. Not helped by Park.
Probably disappointed with his own performance given he was pretty anonymous throughout
Cause the game passed by by him and he was not really playing well...
I'm wondering when his performances are going to start matching his hype. Hopefully soon.
He showed some class moments away to Ajax, thing is Cleverley is never going to be a Carrick/Scholes dictator in midfield he's better higher up the field where his one touch play can unlock defences that's why he and Anderson worked so well together because they both wanted to be that far forward, I'm not sure if Cleverley can play with Carrick given the space in midfield between where the two want to operate and as we saw for as good as Cleverley and Anderson were together they did leave us desperately exposed at the back.
That said Cleverley needed someone other than Park in there with him tonight.
I thought SAF said he was going to get 90 minutes tonight.
Watch our matches before he got injured. Then remember he's 22. There's the justification for the hype.
Needs must
He's a tidy player who keeps things very simple but the hype about him has been ridiculous. He's a long way from being the answer to our midfield problems.
Seen them. I know his age. He hasn't justified the hype.
I don't think he was anticipating the game would be as open as it was. The players had to do a lot of chasing today.
SAF and Eric Harrison disagree, I agree the hype's too much but SAF and Eric Harrison's words hold a lot of weight with me, Cleverley is more than tidy too.
The players he was with today aren't exactly the best one touch passers. With Rooney and Welbeck up top, and an in form Nani and Valencia out wide there will be plenty of players capable of the quick one touch passing that Cleverley seems to excel at. Carrick will sit back a little deeper and facilitate the ball to the players around him like he does best. I see no reason why the would not be a very successful midfield duo.
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