Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances

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What a quote!!!!

As Eric Harrison, the former United youth coach synonymous with the best of the club's production line, said: "Tom for me is, without question, so good that he is the best young player at United since Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and David Beckham came on to the scene."
 
Decotron said:
What a quote!!!!

As Eric Harrison, the former United youth coach synonymous with the best of the club's production line, said: "Tom for me is, without question, so good that he is the best young player at United since Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and David Beckham came on to the scene."
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I think it's pretty evident. Not many players come back from such a long lay-off and look that sharp. It was almost as if he was never gone. We've definitely been missing him though.
 
Decotron said:
What a quote!!!!

As Eric Harrison, the former United youth coach synonymous with the best of the club's production line, said: "Tom for me is, without question, so good that he is the best young player at United since Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and David Beckham came on to the scene."
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Not really seen much of him yet myself - do you guys rate him highly? i.e. can he go on to become world class (or near as) like Scholes etc?
 
I must admit I don't see him being the best thing since Giggs, Scholes and Beckham. He has impressed where ever he has been so it says a lot about his character, especially in the lower leagues as that is pretty tough. He seems to keep it simple and pass quickly, either one touch or two touch. Most players should be able to do that though at United especially with great players around them to pass to.
I just think if Wilshere was fit he would go straight into England's team. I don't think it is the same for Cleverley, he is clearly a good player but I am wondering if he has been hyped a bit too much when he was out injured.
 
Decotron said:
What a quote!!!!

As Eric Harrison, the former United youth coach synonymous with the best of the club's production line, said: "Tom for me is, without question, so good that he is the best young player at United since Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and David Beckham came on to the scene."
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Wow, that is a big praise. I think Welbeck is more talented, but Tom is a smart player and he's the kind of player we've been missing.
 
From what I've seen I'm not sure welbeck is. Its tight for me. Cleverley's influence over our team has been greater although it was over a short period.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
From what I've seen I'm not sure welbeck is. Its tight for me. Cleverley's influence over our team has been greater although it was over a short period.
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To be fair to Welbeck, it's a lot harder to impress playing as a Striker. If you don't get decent service you can be starved of the ball and with tv coverage following the ball, you can't always appreciate his movement. In midfield where Tom plays, you see a lot more of the ball and your contribution isn't as likely to go unnoticed.
 
Cutch said:
Who cares. Main thing is we have both of them.
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Agreed. Welbeck is a brilliant talent, and an all round striker. His link up play is good, he is tall and strong and he is a good finisher. Cleverley is also brilliant. His touch and short, quick passing is great when in possession and he creates little angles and works space to get the ball forward. He is great at keeping the pressure on in attack and he is very intelligent. I remember a pass last night where a corner was cleared and he just clipped it back over, straight to our attackers feet. It's great to have him back, and as has been said, for him to look that sharp is amazing.
 
Where did you get them from Pogue? I'd like to see the stats for a few other players. I usually use chalkboards but they're league only.
 
Ray Peterson said:
To be fair to Welbeck, it's a lot harder to impress playing as a Striker. If you don't get decent service you can be starved of the ball and with tv coverage following the ball, you can't always appreciate his movement. In midfield where Tom plays, you see a lot more of the ball and your contribution isn't as likely to go unnoticed.
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On the other hand, at United as a striker, you generally have lots of service because of having easily the best wide players in the country. Anyways, it's early days for both. Hopefully they both keep improving and learning.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Quality stats from Ajax game. 46 attempted passes 45*successful*(98%) with 100% in the attacking third (16/16).
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Very impressive. And I love the fact that he takes risks with his passing. Well actually he doesn't. He's just very quick to make up his mind so even the forward passes don't have as much risk involved.
 
Does anything he is more like Xavi in his style than Iniesta whom he was earlier likened to?
 
Cold_Boy said:
Does anything he is more like Xavi in his style than Iniesta whom he was earlier likened to?
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I seem to remember saying Cleverley was attempting to mould his game on the pair of them. To be honest, he just looks absolutely determined to succeed, and I can't see him being anything but a brilliant, brilliant player for us.

It's great because he just came out of fecking nowhere, really - that spell at Watford did wonders for him.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Does anything he is more like Xavi in his style than Iniesta whom he was earlier likened to?
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Xavi and scholes go looking for the ball to dictate the tempo, cleverley is far more inclined to go looking for space in the attacking third of the pitch to then be able to play quick one twos with the front men IMO. Means he'll be less involved than scholes or carrick generally but probably more decisive in terms of goals.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Does anything he is more like Xavi in his style than Iniesta whom he was earlier likened to?
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Personally, I'd see him as a player who's more like Iniesta. Xavi is the sort of player who sits back, doesn't really go forward and dictates the game from a deep lying position. I think Cleverley's a more advanced player than him to be honest.
 
cheesy said:
Personally, I'd see him as a player who's more like Iniesta. Xavi is the sort of player who sits back, doesn't really go forward and dictates the game from a deep lying position. I think Cleverley's a more advanced player than him to be honest.
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Actually, Xavi does go forward, there seems to be a myth that all he does is sit back and spread balls around in a deep position. In fact, he's scored more goals than he has ever done this season already.
 
Bape said:
Actually, Xavi does go forward, there seems to be a myth that all he does is sit back and spread balls around in a deep position. In fact, he's scored more goals than he has ever done this season already.
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I'm not saying that he literally doesn't move forward at all. What I'm saying is that he does sit back a lot more, and is certainly more reserved than someone like Iniesta.
 
Decotron said:
What a quote!!!!

As Eric Harrison, the former United youth coach synonymous with the best of the club's production line, said: "Tom for me is, without question, so good that he is the best young player at United since Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and David Beckham came on to the scene."
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Its not as if we produced Zidanes and Maradonas after the Fergie babes.

In my opinion the best player we've produced after the Fergie babes was Wes Brown, a dependable defender but nowhere near to world class (ie Rio and Vidic level)
 
devilish said:
Its not as if we produced Zidanes and Maradonas after the Fergie babes.

In my opinion the best player we've produced after the Fergie babes was Wes Brown, a dependable defender but nowhere near to world class (ie Rio and Vidic level)
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Fletcher? At his best before his troubles he was imperious.

Cleverley's going to be a candidate for sure, and he exerts incredible influence for his young age. When he said he'd like to take over for Scholes, I thought he was overreaching like feck... That's not what I think anymore.
 
Eriku said:
Fletcher? At his best before his troubles he was imperious.

Cleverley's going to be a candidate for sure, and he exerts incredible influence for his young age. When he said he'd like to take over for Scholes, I thought he was overreaching like feck... That's not what I think anymore.
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Its hard to pinpoint the Fletch's quality due to his illness. I mean, if the media has to be believed he'd been suffering from it for years, which makes it impossible to decide his true potential.

However as things stand despite his work rate and commitment was top notch I struggle to put him at par with the Fergie babes. The player whom in my opinion went closest was Wes (I remember him humilating Hassenbank at 17 yrs of age). Its such a shame that injuries hindered his career.

If Clev can keep on improving then I can see him beating Fletch quite easily to be honest.
 
Eriku said:
Fletcher? At his best before his troubles he was imperious.
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Are you having a laugh? Fletcher got where he was by sheer will and determination, and that is to be commended. But to even indirectly put his name forward as an example of a top quality youth product, is way off the mark imo. Technically or talent wise he is nowhere near the likes of Cleverley or Welbeck, never mind a Scholes or a Beckham.

Cleverley's going to be a candidate for sure, and he exerts incredible influence for his young age. When he said he'd like to take over for Scholes, I thought he was overreaching like feck... That's not what I think anymore.
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Agree on this point. He is not technically as talented as Scholes, but very few are. He is still talented enough to become a top top player for us for a very long time i hope.
 
devilish said:
Its hard to pinpoint the Fletch's quality due to his illness. I mean, if the media has to be believed he'd been suffering from it for years, which makes it impossible to decide his true potential.

However as things stand despite his work rate and commitment was top notch I struggle to put him at par with the Fergie babes. The player whom in my opinion went closest was Wes (I remember him humilating Hassenbank at 17 yrs of age). Its such a shame that injuries hindered his career.

If Clev can keep on improving then I can see him beating Fletch quite easily to be honest.
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It's not that hard Devilish, we have seen enough of him to know his capabilities. For me he had one great season in 2008/09, that was his best and we can judge him on that. For me his attitude and his commitment were always far more impressive than his technical ability.

The fact when people talk of Fletch the first thing mentioned is attitude and commitment tells it's own story. They speak of his attitude because it was much more impressive than his technique. Good player but never anywhere near a great one in my view.

I see potential for greatness in Cleverley and Welbeck, they have the technical ability and composure to make it to the top. Can they eventually be considered amongst the greatest talents of their generation as Scholes has? Probably not, but still very talented and exciting prospects.
 
apotheosis said:
Are you having a laugh? Fletcher got where he was by sheer will and determination, and that is to be commended. But to even indirectly put his name forward as an example of a top quality youth product, is way off the mark imo. Technically or talent wise he is nowhere near the likes of Cleverley or Welbeck, never mind a Scholes or a Beckham.
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It wasn't a matter of equating him to Scholes or Giggs, it was whether he was one of our best youth players to have risen up since then. Need I remind you that Fletcher was touted as an incredible talent until his teenage injury problems, and the sheer heights we saw him at are tough to discount unless you specifically mean naturally or technically prodigious players.
 
It's a shame that most people will probably forget the heights that Fletcher reached by the end of his career. Was definitely one of the best at what he did at one point. He was basically amazing for a year and a half from 08/09 onwards.

That red card against Arsenal was absolutely tragic. He was putting in excellent performances against all manner of opposition back then, and was without a doubt one of the first names on the teamsheet. He hadn't really reached the heights expected of him given his promise in his earlier years, but that Fletcher was some player!
 
apotheosis said:
It's not that hard Devilish, we have seen enough of him to know his capabilities. For me he had one great season in 2007/08, that was his best and we can judge him on that. For me his attitude and his commitment were always far more impressive than his technical ability.

The fact when people talk of Fletch the first thing mentioned is attitude and commitment tells it's own story. They speak of his attitude because it was much more impressive than his technique. Good player but never anywhere near a great one in my view.

I see potential for greatness in Cleverley and Welbeck, they have the technical ability and composure to make it to the top. Can they eventually be considered amongst the greatest talents of their generation as Scholes has? Probably not, but still very talented and exciting prospects.
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In 2008/09 Fletch was significantly better than he was the season before. The away tie at Arsenal has to go down as the apex of Fletch's career at United. A fully fit Darren Fletcher offers you significantly more than just grit and determination he brings tactical nous, positioning, decision making and a goal threat too (he even got us a goal against City when we were a man down and he was struggling with his colitis!) Fletch is great at what he does. Just like Paul Ince was great at what he did and Emmanuel Petit was great what he did. There are different ways of being great.

Tom Cleverley will certainly become great at the things he specialises in. You cannot have the youth team coach who nurtured Fergie's fledglings and the most successful manager in the history of Manchester United giving you props and not have some serious potential. Cleverley really could be the next big thing and we should all be happy about that and treat it on its own merits. Its useless to compare Cleverley with midfielders who serve a different function than he does. Instead Cleverley should be judged against similar centre midfielders like Thiago Alcantara and Jack Wilshere. Indeed, by doing so his great merits as a player can be best appreciated because I don't see that Cleverley is significantly inferior to anyone else emerging in his role in world football. It may actually be the opposite...
 
Fletcher has always been underrated technically. Good in the air, great engine, good passer and very smart tactically. If Cleverley reaches the same level as Fletcher did at his peak then I'll be delighted.
 
Eriku said:
It wasn't a matter of equating him to Scholes or Giggs, it was whether he was one of our best youth players to have risen up since then. Need I remind you that Fletcher was touted as an incredible talent until his teenage injury problems, and the sheer heights we saw him at are tough to discount unless you specifically mean naturally or technically prodigious players.
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KingEric7 said:
It's a shame that most people will probably forget the heights that Fletcher reached by the end of his career. Was definitely one of the best at what he did at one point. He was basically amazing for a year and a half from 08/09 onwards.
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No im afraid i don't see what you have obviously seen, nor do i recall his arrival on the scene with any great excitement or anticipation. For me a good honest player and fantastic professional, but his technical limitations and the lack of specificity to his role put him well down the pecking order of Utd midfield talent imo.

As for best youth talent we have produced since 95. Possibly, considering the only other 2 before Fletcher were O'shea and Brown. I would say Browns season at RB in 07/08 was every bit as impressive as anything fletcher has ever produced in my view. He was absolutely fantastic that year.

I just don't see these sheer heights you speak of. Almost like he was Roy Keane for a year. For me a good player who had a purple patch for 12 months and then went back to the form he had shown before. His condition may have affected him, but i cannot say for certain, so i judge him on what he has produced over his career from my viewpoint. That to me equates to 12-18 months of very good form, and the rest of the time he was not particularly good and often inconsistent. Sorry.
 
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