Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances
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Already posted, but it IS beautiful.
Haven't watched all of the England match, but I can't help but think that they miss Welbeck and Cleverley, and are obviously not as good as United.
Haven't watched all of the England match, but I can't help but think that they miss Welbeck and Cleverley, and are obviously not as good as United.
Make him and Wilshire the first choice partnership in midfield for England. Cleverley doing all the sensible things and Wilshere driving on.
Whose the best defensive midfielder England have? I reckon those two with someone really strong - physically and defensively - in front of the defense giving them freedom would be great. I can't really think of anyone though. Carrick is probably the best England have but I don't think he gets stuck in enough. Ideal would be having someone like De Jong who can just sit, letting these two bomb forward whenever required.
Whose the best defensive midfielder England have? I reckon those two with someone really strong - physically and defensively - in front of the defense giving them freedom would be great. I can't really think of anyone though. Carrick is probably the best England have but I don't think he gets stuck in enough. Ideal would be having someone like De Jong who can just sit, letting these two bomb forward whenever required.
If that's the case then England should consider playing without a defensive midfielder.
In 2007/8 when we had Brown at RB, and when he was available afterwards, he often stayed at home and slid over, Rio would come out a bit like a sweeper or a shielding midfielder.
Everyone else would shift over to accommodate, it's just as good and essentially does the same thing as Sergio dropping so deep for Barca, i.e. playing a holding midfielder.
---------Brown-------Vidic----------
------------------Rio
Hargreaves---------------------Evra
------------Carrick-Scholes-
----Tevez----Rooney-----Ronaldo---
Probably part of why Ronaldo played on the left and Hargreaves played on the right in the 2008 CL final, can't ask Ronaldo to play RB!
England could do the same thing with Smalling, he can attack better and defend similarly to Brown in good form.
We did the same thing against Barca at Wembley with O'Shea and Vidic sweeping.
England should try it, imho.
Parker and Barry were both perfectly adequate last night - you couldn't accuse Parker of not getting stuck in.
I agree with Amol that Tom and Jack are the way ahead, probably together with Parker, but I don't think England should rush to discard Gerrard. As Hoddle said on Sky last night - as good as the up and coming youngsters are, England will need experience at tournaments too.
I'd play him as part of the front trio/wide right or left if he's in form. Not in central midfield. Build a central midfield whose job is to keep hold of the ball and get the team to move forward as a unit. Gerrard, as good a player as he is, is a final third player. You don't want one of your central players going for the killer pass/cross so often. Keep a fulcrum of central players who will win the ball and keep it well without being heroic.
For me, Wilshire and Cleverley are the kind of players England have needed for ages in that they're basically intelligent players. Nani is better than them as was Gerrard at his best but the latter two aren't necessarily intelligent players and it really helps to have a good few in every successful team. Keeping those two as a base for the future, you have Rooney who is England's star man by a mile and also an amazing football brain. And Young who, on the evidence of his few games for us so far, seems to be quite intelligent in his link up play.
That's four players who I reckon are capable of playing intelligent, cohesive and flud football. Now I know it's early days for someone like Cleverley but a little brainstorming is fun. My only issue is how to accommodate these chaps into one well knit unit is that Rooney IMO should always be the striker that drops deep. Keeping that in mind I'n not sure how to line this lot up. Because that would demand a two man midfield.
Gerrard, really?
He looked damned good the year they came 2nd, but that seems like a long time ago now. He's had a lot of injury problems, I'll be surprised if he gets back to his top form again.
Not that he'll be useless, but I think we should try to use a quick passing game. At that point Gerrard is going to slow things down, he's not a ball retention type player.
He looked damned good the year they came 2nd, but that seems like a long time ago now. He's had a lot of injury problems, I'll be surprised if he gets back to his top form again.
Not that he'll be useless, but I think we should try to use a quick passing game. At that point Gerrard is going to slow things down, he's not a ball retention type player.
Lance Uttercunt and A_Dick
This post doesn't seem to fit in with what was being discussed at the time, I don't get it.
He's calling you a dick.
he has a bit of ol' Scoles in him in that he has good awareness and seems to know where to pass the ball even before receiving it.
I got that much, I just don't know why, seeing as I hadn't posted anything in the thread.
Can't a guy call you a dick without needing to explain the time and place he chooses to call you a dick, Nick?
Bah, my nickname of Pogue was far more imaginative than ruddy A_Nick or Lance Uttercunt. Must do better!
The only experience the old heads can give is on how to not give a shit and exit early in major tournaments. Give the youngsters the chance in the Euros and maybe they'll be ready by the time the World Cup heads along.
Good shout, i agree. Maybe Gerrard could play off a front man in a system without Rooney. He surely cannot play every game, so we need a back up plan with real quality and goal scoring capability when Rooney does not play.
Maybe something along the lines of:
----------Back 4--------
----Parker--Wilshere----
Walcott--Gerrard--Young
---------Welbeck-------
Yes been thinking along similar lines regarding Utd, Cleverley and Wilshire is a similar pairing to him and Ando, great going forward but too open at the back.With Smalling looking good covering RB, and Lescott equally adept on the other side, maybe a system like 3-5-2 would be an option.
---------------Hart--------------
---Smalling-----Rio-----Lescott--
--------------Jones-------------
-----Cleverley------Wilshire------
Milner--------Rooney-------Young
---------------Welbeck----------
Jones instead of Parker gives the option of him dropping back alongside Rio, should the need arise.
It's a tough one. I wonder if Wilshere could do as good a job from the left hand side of midfield cutting in like Young and Nasri do. Then maybe he could be on the left with Cleverley in the centre and Rooney in the 'hole' and a more defense minded midfielder next to Cleverley.
I was thinking that, except making Cleverley go to the wing.
Hmm, i have my concerns playing players out of position, especially when they have previously shown little signs of such versatility. We have been down that road before with England and it never seems to work that well.
Within the current system it would probably be safer to ask Wilshire to simply stay deeper, for me he is not as effective as Cleverley going forward, so if Jack sits we are not as open.
Capello has already suggested Wilshire could play this role, although admittedly more as a Veron type, than a Parker. Wilshire is probably more comfortable operating a bit deeper, and it would probably not take too much away from his overall effectiveness, as it maybe would with Cleverley.
The problem is Cleverley is not half as good on the wings, and i suggest Wilshire would be even less comfortable. Nasri is capable of playing on the wings, but is still so much more effective in the centre.
I am a firm believer in playing players in their most effective roles, a little variation within the same role is fine, but to completely change a player's role in my view often leads to less effective performances.
Surely the best way to attain an effective national team, is to play our best players in the areas which earned them a call up in the first place. It is where they are most comfortable and the disciplines of their respective roles is second nature, wheras a change of position usually leads to less confidence, tactical errors and a less balanced and effective team performance.
Both Cleverley and Wilshere should not be played on the wings. Central midfield is their best position. They do such a good job over there. They have good touch, skill, vision and good passing ability. Wilshere is the deep lying playmaker so why not play Cleverley in the position right behind the striker.
Because that's Rooney's best position and he's England's best player.
He can play there when Rooney is not playing or when Rooney is playing as a lone striker like he did yesterday.
Well, at least Cleverley has played on the wing for a season, he's never played in the hole that I've heard of, maybe a few youth games.
But your point is taken, he's really made to be a central midfielder, playing in the hole is more similar. But considering he's just finding his feet in central midfield, putting him somewhere else new seems a bit careless.
I'd love to know Capello's thoughts on the matter. Or SAFs of course. How to fix England and if they need 3 central midfielders or if any of those ideas sound appealing.
I was being jokative! Goes back to that "insult the user above you" thread in the general.
Wow. I forgot how well he played... wonderful stuff.
I was being jokative! Goes back to that "insult the user above you" thread in the general.
Wow. I forgot how well he played... wonderful stuff.
Does things with the minimum of fuss...good sign.
Shame he didn't score,just seemed to rush it a bit when he had more time.What that goal will do for him when it finally comes? We'll see an even better player
I was being jokative! Goes back to that "insult the user above you" thread in the general.
Wow. I forgot how well he played... wonderful stuff.
Looking at his compilation and Anderson's from that game, he was better after all.
Has bulked up
/muppet mode
Has bulked up
/muppet mode
Anyone else remember watching that match? I can still hear the vuvuzelas.
Wow - why does the subject of England invite people to talk such bollox?
There's no way England should be looking to throw out the likes of Rio, Gerrard and Ashley Cole, and it's absurd to sum up their contributions like that.
We were mostly talking about attack/midfield. Gerrard has always looked poor, for him, for England. At this point, i don't see why it's going to get better. Not that he's not worth having on the team, but I sure don't see that being the way forward.
In an ideal world, the euros would be used as a platform for future tournaments to build on. We aren't going to win it, whoever's in the team, so we may as well take a forward view and just get the younger players playing in a coherent system. Hopefully Cleverley will make himself a shoe-in with a season of strong performances for us in the league and in europe.
The defence has proven themselves mostly in tournaments, the midfielders like Gerrard and Lampard are utter rubbish for England when compared to their club form. Why bother to take them when you have younger players who're just waiting for the chance?
I think the likes of Lampard and Gerrard should not be playing for England again after Euro 2012. Time to get rid of dead wood bring in some young blood. Wilshere I think is already established but hopefully Cleverley after this season can cement a place in the England lineup.
Haven't watched the compilation videos but that was my impression of their seasons so far - Anderson was a fair bit better than Tom vs WBA, Anderson shaded it vs Spurs, and Cleverley shaded it vs Arsenal.
Not that it matters. They've both started the season superbly. I'm still surprised and delighted by how well-balanced they look as a partnership. I really didn't think we'd see much of them together as a midfield two.
I fear that the biggest piece of deadwood, Cappello, can't see this. Who of us would select Barry, Downing and Parker in the midfield?
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