'Crap we've had to put up with in recent times'
I fear for some of you post Fergie.
I fear for some of you post Fergie.
Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances
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How exactly Cina?
And do you do anything else other than complain about our midfield and patrol the Nani threads.
I only ever see you in either saying the same things.
It's unbelievable. These are the best years in our history and people are saying stuff like that. Shocking.
I'm not denying any of that though, am I?
Oh dear...
How am I complaining by saying we shouldn't go overboard exactly? I've never dissed Cleverley, only praised him but some people are hyping him up unbelievably after 3 really good games. I say give him 8 - 10 games, the more people hype him up, the more flak they'll give him if he hits a slump, which happens a lot with players so young.
Remember Jonny Evans?
And I'll take the other comments with a pinch of salt, seeing as most people on the board are in agreement that the midfield isn't quite what it could be, well, apart from those who've suddenly decided to abandon that notion after 3 games. And seeing as yesterday I made a thread praising our squad, yeah, definitely complaining.
Sorry for defending Nani, I'll just let people give him stick in future.
It does seem like all you do these days is criticise the midfield, criticise multiple series' or laugh off criticism about Nani. I didn't think you were one of the moaners up until last year but it seems that's all you do now really.
Not that it takes anything away from his record, but he mainly played on the wings for Watford.
We generally produce clever footballers, so it's obviously a priority, but Tom is special.
This place is amazing at times to be fair. People will blindly defend obvious faults in the team/strategy, or just deny anything negative exists with some blanket response about Sir Alex knowing all, or something pointless along those lines.
Yet at the same time there'll always be one player who gets picked out and criticised beyond all realms of reason, and end up having any of the team's shortcomings placed illogically on their shoulders, even in games where as an individual they play quite well. Looks like it's Evra's turn this year. Carrick, Berba and Nani will no doubt be relieved.
Cleverley's had a great start, but unless him and Anderson are both going to play every single game for the entire season, with neither of them having a drop in form, injury, or getting tired, or not being suited as a partnership in certain situations, then there's obviously still a big question mark over our midfield, because last year it was by far and away the weakest part of our team.
Yet at the same time there'll always be one player who gets picked out and criticised beyond all realms of reason, and end up having any of the team's shortcomings placed illogically on their shoulders, even in games where as an individual they play quite well. Looks like it's Evra's turn this year. Carrick, Berba and Nani will no doubt be relieved.
Cleverley's had a great start, but unless him and Anderson are both going to play every single game for the entire season, with neither of them having a drop in form, injury, or getting tired, or not being suited as a partnership in certain situations, then there's obviously still a big question mark over our midfield, because last year it was by far and away the weakest part of our team.
feck off brwned. Look at my post history and you'll see that I've been posting in the De Gea, Young, Jones, Evans threads and defending them all. And I never criticize the players we have in midfield, not Carrick or Ando (been praising him recently too), or Giggs apart from his age. All I point out is that it's not as good as the other areas in the squad and could've been made stronger, and the only people on this board who disagree with that are Twgg and Cnut, the two biggest WUMs here.
noods said basically the same as I have above about Cleverley, and somehow I come across as criticizing him.
Criticize multiple series'?
i.e. Dexter and ... um ... nope nothing else.
Completely irrelevant to this, just a dig from the wonderful poster than is brwned.
Dexter is rubbish though.
I was half-joking with that one actually, just because it wound you up a little bit when someone else said it...
I didn't say you were criticising specific players I just seemed to me, in general, you've been one of the more vocal critics over the past summer. Praising Anderson's all well and good after he's had a good start but it doesn't change the fact you were voicing significant doubts previously...
I dunno, it probably just says more about my own biased, everything's rosy viewpoint than anything.
I didn't say you were criticising specific players I just seemed to me, in general, you've been one of the more vocal critics over the past summer. Praising Anderson's all well and good after he's had a good start but it doesn't change the fact you were voicing significant doubts previously...
I dunno, it probably just says more about my own biased, everything's rosy viewpoint than anything.
Is it just me or does Tom Cleverley look and talk a bit like David Beckham?
Maybe. I've certainly been critical of the lad in the past, though deservedly so in my opinion, but I did always say that with a full pre season he can fulfil his potential which seems to be happening SO FAR. But again, we shouldn't be going overboard, which was my original point about Cleverley after 3 games yet some people seemed to think I was slating the lad.
Well said i couldn't agree more, except i see no respite for Carrick. He will be maligned more than ever before, especially after witnessing how the midfield can play with him not in it.
Tbf some of the criticism is justified for those players, however what i do not like is the excessive castigating of certain players. I have been a critic of both Berba and Carrick in the past and still have my reservations about their contributions, but i would never label either of them 'shite' or 'useless', as it is quite clearly untrue.
Highlighting deficincies in a players performance, is very different from casting unnecessary and derogatory insults. It is just a pity that on here as you rightly say, many posters choose to go to the extremes in either defending players or insulting them, with seemingly no capacity or willingness to objectively debate the issues on common ground.
That's particularly fecking stupid logic when you bear in mind how well our midfield performed at the back end of last season with him in it.
Those performances were over a sustained period of time, against some really tough opponents. 3 league games and a glorified friendly later (2 fixtures against teams making one of their worst starts to their campaign ever) and suddenly that's all forgotten? Ridiculous.
Cleverley reminds me of this fela:
Much more of Xavi/Scholes for me, more of Xavi. Does the simple things very well, keeps the play moving as quick as possible. Hope he comes good this season, has made an excellent start to his first team career.
Stupid logic it may well be Pogue, but do you deny that such logic being used to further berate Carrick is unlikely?
I agree, the young lads have started well, and it will be a different type of pressure they will have to contend with at the business end of the season. It will be interesting to see if they can pick up from where they left off before the international break, after having their early momentum disrupted a little.
Ridiculous but, it's going to happen without a doubt. It will start with the first match day thread when it's announced we have Fletcher and/or Carrick in the line up even though we have a fit Clevs/Ando. The "omg back to slow ponderous football".
Also, I think more than the players, there is maybe also a shift in coaching in how we approach games. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the coaching staff have made a conscious effort to have us playing like this, that during practice they are working on keeping the ball and making short quick psasing - taking aspects from the team that not only humbled us twice but, are dominating club football (and the style also seems to be dominating world football as well).
I'd like to think that the likes of Carrick/Fletcher are smart enough to adapt to some degree to how we are approaching the game now.
As for Cleverley - he is doing fantastic right now but, knowing The Caf, am sure there are people just waiting for him to have a bit of downturn (and Ando) and then come at him - with comments about Sneijder or whoever else should have been brought in. The good thing though so far it seems is , even if he has a hiccup in form, mentally he is strong enough to not keep him down too long.
'Crap we've had to put up with in recent times'
I fear for some of you post Fergie.
ok, it was harsh but I'm excited about this lad. To actually have a player like that in the middle who reads the game so well and seems to be trying to model himself on xavi is brilliant.
Cleverley is nothing like Xavi. Can we please stop comparing any semi decent player to a Barcelona player?
Well it's probably Cleverley's fault as he is trying to learn from the way they play and if you can't see that then I'm surprised.
ok, it was harsh but I'm excited about this lad. To actually have a player like that in the middle who reads the game so well and seems to be trying to model himself on xavi is brilliant.
Where do you get this from? We have Paul Scholes. A better role model than any midfielder out there.
This. I'm sorry but have we not produced any good midfielders who are classy on the ball? Paul Scholes anyone?
Of course you can learn from Barca. You can learn from United. You can learn from Arsenal and Chelsea as well. But the suggestion that anyone who is comfortable on the ball and passes it neatly is copying Barcelona is nonsensical (unless he's been quoted on saying that or something).
Oh for feck sake, Barcelona didn't invent exciting football.
Why is this so important to you? People just choose well known players to compare other to, that's all.
There was a article where it was said that Cleverley himself said he had been studying Xavi/Iniesta and been trying to model himself around how they play, that's probably why people are making the link between those guys rather than Scholes.
Maybe he isn't exactly like either but, there are definitely similarities so far in how he carries himself as CM to them.
Maybe he isn't exactly like either but, there are definitely similarities so far in how he carries himself as CM to them.
Almost seems like some people want him to fail so the "I told you so" brigade can bang on about not signing you know who.
He mentioned a while back that he was trying
To learn from the way Xavi and Iniesta play I think.
Eh? Well Email Tom and tell him he shouldn't be bothering with trying to learn from two of the best midfielders around.
How well do you know me? Don't pretend to think you know what's important to me.
Except that's not what happened. There's a difference between saying 'he reminds me of Iniesta' and saying 'he's modeling himself on Xavi'. The latter is factual statement. If there's actually a quote of him saying that then fine (as I said in my post) but to generally come to that conclusion based on nothing is odd.
Fair enough. Good to hear that he's looking to learn from the best.
Lance Uttercunt and A_Dick
Yes, yes he did.
Wow, Cleverley is just obsessed with Barcelona.
There is nothing wrong.
Great!!!
Glad that he is obsessed by them.
I've bemoaned for ages how little many footballers and managers seem to want to learn from abroad!
One of the things that set aside SAF from the likes of Wenger is that after a EUropean defeat SAF would take it on the chin and say that was something to learn from, while Wenger would mumble something about it being 'difficult to swallow' i.e. his way is STILL the correct way!
But I've always been astounded by how many English players seem not to want to go arboad to broaden their skillset. If they can't get into the English leagues here then they COULD always go abroad, but don't see too many European clubs clamouring for them!
Managers too. Get this. A footballer retires form football. Says he wants to manage. In Europe they work under the best of the best (even if they weren't footballers). They study under the best managers for years before plying their trade.
In the UK (which isn't or wasn't the greatest technical game) the player gets his coaching badges (like Southgate) and immediately thinks they can manage just because they played the game.
Great to see Cleverley taking in something DIFFERENT to the usual fair in the English game. Great to see that he is learning from the best of the best and adding new things to his game all the time. Beckham used to do this too!
With that mindset and application the boy will go far.
Glad that he is obsessed by them.
I've bemoaned for ages how little many footballers and managers seem to want to learn from abroad!
One of the things that set aside SAF from the likes of Wenger is that after a EUropean defeat SAF would take it on the chin and say that was something to learn from, while Wenger would mumble something about it being 'difficult to swallow' i.e. his way is STILL the correct way!
But I've always been astounded by how many English players seem not to want to go arboad to broaden their skillset. If they can't get into the English leagues here then they COULD always go abroad, but don't see too many European clubs clamouring for them!
Managers too. Get this. A footballer retires form football. Says he wants to manage. In Europe they work under the best of the best (even if they weren't footballers). They study under the best managers for years before plying their trade.
In the UK (which isn't or wasn't the greatest technical game) the player gets his coaching badges (like Southgate) and immediately thinks they can manage just because they played the game.
Great to see Cleverley taking in something DIFFERENT to the usual fair in the English game. Great to see that he is learning from the best of the best and adding new things to his game all the time. Beckham used to do this too!
With that mindset and application the boy will go far.
Brother this is an insult to our best central midfielder other than Scholes in the last 15 years...I like to remained you that Xavi when he was 22 years old like Tom right now, won just a Spanish title. Don't be aggressive with my judge but go back 9 years and ask your question again. I don't think many socios would predict that Xavi will be no 1 and won 3 Champ League, World cup, Euro Cup. Tom is not a decent player his our best central man at 22. Moreover the boss choose to don't bring Snider just because of Tom.
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