Nice one mate. Yeah Maciek got us sorted with downloads of this. Its a good watch if you're unfamiliar with Tom's career to date.
04:06 and 08:04
Very clever finishes.Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances
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Nice one mate. Yeah Maciek got us sorted with downloads of this. Its a good watch if you're unfamiliar with Tom's career to date.
04:06 and 08:04
Very clever finishes.64 passes vs WBA, 58 successful. 90,6 %.
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
If he could rise that to 80-90 passes per game... we would fly in the midfield. And he just needs to improve movement without the ball. Maybe with world class DM in the team, that would be reality.
That will come with experience. Just a matter of him collecting the dots to connect the dots. It's frightening to think how good he can become with a consistent run of games. Same applies to Ando. They make a good partnership (def solidarity will come).
I reckon he and ando would thrive in a midfield 3 with Carrick holding. We'd literally dominate most games in the centre of the park, could be an idea to try away from home in future.
With the exception of Xavi and Busquets no one in the world averages that many passes per match. The closest from the top five leagues in the 2010/11 season were (from WhoScored.com) Scholes at 71, Essien at 69, Bruno at 70, Pizarro at 66, Schweini at 66 and M'Vila at 61.
This.
Cleverley's passing stats for both attempted and completed passes put him up there with the very best in the game. People are underrating his abilities because he's come up through the ranks, probably via the most unfashionable route possible (three loans!), but if you stand back and judge the player on his own merits you can see he's exceptional. There are few players of his ability to take the ball in tight spaces, beat players and find a teammate in the world nevermind the Premier League. I'm actually shocked at how good his close control, dribbling and passing under pressure is.
Any chance of sharing games played for said players?
WhoScored.com, football-lineups.com, starts(subs):
Scholes 16(6)
Essien 32(1)
Pizarro 20(2)
Xavi 29(2)
Busquets 25(3)
Bruno 36(1)
Schweini 31(1)
M'Vila 37
Scholes 16(6)
Essien 32(1)
Pizarro 20(2)
Xavi 29(2)
Busquets 25(3)
Bruno 36(1)
Schweini 31(1)
M'Vila 37
No, they're basing their judgments on the fact that he's played one PL match for us, in which he did fine.
I think someone thats able to pass the shit out of it is much better than having a play-breaker for Tom. I think Barca have shown that you can have a combo of all of that, Busquets is underrated by many for his passing ability but has good awareness of defence, thats the type of player i'd like - just not that cheating diving racist cuntbag!
Maybe in your case but do you think thats right across the board? There was almost an assumption that cos Cleverley had managed to make 64 pass attempts that the top players must do more. Surely you saw that? I find it bizarre that some fans cant celebrate young talent emerging at Old Trafford. Wonder if Gooners were so negative about Wilshere when he got back from Bolton?
If Cleverley's passing stats belonged to a player we'd signed for £30m this board would've blown up with posts about how great a buy it was and how after one game it was already clear he was gonna be class. Why deny the same treatment to one of our own?
Aye.
I really don't get people underrating him, tbh, and whatever their reasons. The lad's quality and only 21-22, so plenty of development left.
I've been most impressed by his technical qualities: his touch, and willingness/ability to receive the ball in tight areas, and make space for himself (there was one instance in the first half against WBA where he had two WBA players converging on him and he just sort of lifted the ball away and to the side to evade. Very Iniesta-esque. Pure sex, I thought). His head is always on the swivel, and he is always moving, with or without the ball. He oftentimes keeps it short and simple, passes and moves, ready to receive it again. Some idiots over here call it too simple, not realising that's how one opens space by drawing defenders.
I've said it before: I really, really, really like Tom Cleverley.
Fair enough
I really like him too, and have done since he suddenly became a player at the age of about 18.
I think he's got a great chance, I just think there will be times when he disappears from games and I hope people are patient.
Hmmm... I agree. In fact, we would probably be most Barca-esque with 4-3-3 formation, Tom-Giggsy-Ando triangle in the middle and Young-Wayne-Nani upfront.
That's true. One expects that of a young player. (Except goalkeepers, of course
)It's just this one guy with the handle 'Wayne_Rooney' who really irritated me with his "Oh, he's not a creative player because he plays it too simple" rambling nonsense.
I haven't seen Cleverley split defences, but then not many players do. People have in their minds this image of the creative midfielder slicing the opposition open with killer balls, but really it doesn't happen that often. Even Scholes didn't do it that much. Xavi and Iniesta more so, but they have Messi dragging defenders all over the place. And even them, most of their game is short passes that gradually open up space, which Cleverley does very nicely.
For me it's more important that he develops a long passing game, spraying it out to the flanks, than defence splitting.
For me it's more important that he develops a long passing game, spraying it out to the flanks, than defence splitting.
It's all about the opportunity to do so. Xavi and Iniesta get more opportunities to do so than Scholes did but he was every bit as good at it (personally he's the best central midfielder I've ever seen). But United definitely DO give players the opportunities to do it. It doesn't actually have to be as glamorous as some make it sound. Anderson does it quite often. He just needs to work on his consistency.
Based on the very little of Cleverly I've seen, his strength seems to be in his technical ability and more significantly his speed of thought. Maybe there's great passing ability to come from him but the other qualities are what have stood out for me.
And you're right about the passes that gradually open up space bit. That bit is usually what makes a passer really really good. The killer ball is usually played only a few of times per game.
If that. If a team's playing a high line it's not uncommon to see it knocked through or over the top, but a killer ball through a packed defence is in my subjective view not a very frequent occurence.
I have to say that, whilst we don't know how he'll fair in a high-intensity match when the stakes are really high, I'm very impressed with how he receives the ball and immediately looks to turn and advance with it. His first thought is to find an attacking player and to get into advanced positions and he has a good touch and turn of pace to do so.
I'd like to see him given some time in a 3-man midfield so he can work on his creative game without having to focus on defensive duties as much, but understand that we're still trying to find the perfect 2-man partnership. Him and Ando could be it but I worry how Tom will cope if Ando continues to fade in the late periods of games, like he has over the last few years.
Exciting prospect though.
I'd like to see him given some time in a 3-man midfield so he can work on his creative game without having to focus on defensive duties as much, but understand that we're still trying to find the perfect 2-man partnership. Him and Ando could be it but I worry how Tom will cope if Ando continues to fade in the late periods of games, like he has over the last few years.
Exciting prospect though.
I don't think they were because they saw glimpses of genuine class at the age of 16, 17 and 18 before he'd even went on loan, there was a load of talk about him before then because he'd shown a bit of special quality that let you know, if he developed as you'd expect, he'd become an excellent player and definite first-choice. I don't think we saw that with Cleverley before. Or if we did, there was so little talk of it that few paid attention. We've had people like Rossi or Welbeck come through with plenty of praise from the manager, we have people like Pogba and Morrison currently getting plenty of praise from the youth coach - Cleverley never had this level of exposure at a young age.
More than that a lot of fans hadn't got a chance to see him before this season (he'd made, what, 5 non-competitive appearances before the age of 22!) and, because of this, people are wary of talking about his potential first team merits before seeing more of him. Part of its probably to do with how early players are judged now, that patience with young players is lessening every year partly because of players like Messi, Rooney, Fabregas and co. being genuinely excellent players before they're even out of their teens, I think. Another part of it is that because people are so desperate for a superstar midfielder at this time, that pretty much every midfielder that's talked about by United fans is being compared to someone like Sneijder, Modric and co. never mind being compared to Scholes, and asked if they can do the job at the same level. If they can't, they're not good enough.
I'd said this time last year that I thought Cleverley might go on loan to someone like Sunderland, Newcastle or Bolton, have an excellent time of it, and then make the permanent move for decent money. I'm already well on my way to thinking I was very, very wrong - but I think he's surprised a lot of people. When Sir Alex was talking about him last year, he talked about his versatility his ability to score goals. Martinez talked about his intelligence being a level above most others his age (yet played him out wide). Or he was praised for his tireless running. There wasn't a lot of talk about how technically adept he was. Intelligence and energy are a very useful combination - as we see with Park - but they alone don't make a player good enough to start for us, especially not as a Scholes replacement; which like it or not people will be regularly (subconsciously or otherwise) comparing him to in terms of the levels he needs to be reaching, the qualities he needs to show. In the same way Carrick was and is still compared to Keane. And it's for this reason that Cleverley might not have impressed some people creatively, I suspect.
There is an unfashionable factor to it as you say - he wasn't talked about much, we never saw any glimmering potential from him in Carling Cup games (which was obviously more to do about him being on loan, but still), and he didn't really have any standout moments when he got his loan in the Premier League (in the way that Welbeck did, for example). He just kept plodding away, improving gradually, adding this and that to his game and performing his role with discipline and maturity. It'll take time for people to really get behind Cleverley and know what to expect from him. Have to say though, the early signs in his United career are promising.
Excellent post
Only on the caf.
The whole place is raving about our exciting young midfielder, but you can guarantee there will always be one top red saying "no, you're all wrong, he's really good!"
I like his current way of playing much more, we shouldn't kill his inclination to dribble through the middle and try to open up defences with short, crisp passes. It's something we lack whenever Giggs isn't playing. Our players love getting the ball out wide all the time anyway, we don't need Cleverley to focus on that.
Agree with this, why anybody would think that developing long passing is essential to his current game is a mystery to me. It would be a nice skill for him to have yes, but I wouldn't want to see him relying on it too often.
Does he have that in his locker tho?
When Scholes came on the scene he was a Centre-forward, so we never really seen how good a passer he was. Then as time went by, Fergie must have seen what he was capable of in training (especially going by all the stories of Scholesy pinging 40yd balls to the back of someones head) & transformed his game into what it became. I hope Tom can develop as close a mantra of what Scholes was about, and from what i've seen & heard - he has a great character to do that!
Only on the caf.
The whole place is raving about our exciting young midfielder, but you can guarantee there will always be one top red saying "no, you're all wrong, he's really good!"
Yeah usually you, with added smilies
I made a innocent comment based on what I thought of his involvement was in the match. I said he had a decent game which he did. I like him as a player. I'm unsure yet of his role and that may change as he develops.
Maybe lack of creative passes for creative player was a naive comment. I didn't mean it like that. I didn't mean to imply 30 yard defence splitting passes but more direct longer passes to open up space.
Only on the caf.
The whole place is raving about our exciting young midfielder, but you can guarantee there will always be one top red saying "no, you're all wrong, he's really good!"
What's this business about top red? I don't get how his comment is top red at all?
Yeah usually you, with added smilies
Added similes?
That's like the pot calling the kettle black...
Ironic smilies don't count. Everyone knows that.
OK maybe not top red, which is a stupid phrase used by wankers to be fair.
But there's a kind of superior "I'm the only one who can see the truth, the rest of you are so wrong" attitude common in the caf from people who, in general, are just saying the same as everybody else in reality.
I actually think Carrick and Cleverly could be an interesting combination. Would certainly give us a lot of possession as neither of them lose the ball much and we'd still get Cleverly's energy to replace Anderson's. It would lose a bit of creativity though we increasingly rely on Rooney and the wingers for that anyway. Also a little steel that the likes of Fletcher and/or Anderson give us would be lost but with the amount of the ball we would have, we wouldn't miss it so much. Unlike the Anderson-Cleverly combination, we'd also have Carrick maintaining positional discipline which would be useful against teams with a little more ambition.
I hope Fergie gives it a try when Rio and Vidic are back.
I hope Fergie gives it a try when Rio and Vidic are back.
Great to see Cleverley and Welbeck both getting games and doing well, keeping out much more experienced players. They need to make an impact just now while Fletcher and Hernandez are unavailable. Be interesting to see if both of them start again tonight. Our football with them two in the side has been exciting and fast-paced, they definitely bring another dimension to our team.
Early signs are great... If SAF insists Tom is the player and we won't have anymore signings... Then play him tonight... He's totally on form and would be a big shame to leave him out...
Ppl are talking about long balls now ?? I've seen excellent crosses from his time in wigan etc... And toms strong point is *** keeping the ball more than spraying hollywood passes which I don't really mind.
I don't think we need young tom to play superb long passes... As long as he keeps are game ticking and we are playing high speed attacking football like we have been doing since preseason... I'm more than happy to lose are long passing game to see a more short direct and quicker movement which will suit hernandez and rooney a lot more. ( Just my opinion )
Ppl are talking about long balls now ?? I've seen excellent crosses from his time in wigan etc... And toms strong point is *** keeping the ball more than spraying hollywood passes which I don't really mind.
I don't think we need young tom to play superb long passes... As long as he keeps are game ticking and we are playing high speed attacking football like we have been doing since preseason... I'm more than happy to lose are long passing game to see a more short direct and quicker movement which will suit hernandez and rooney a lot more. ( Just my opinion )
long passes fecking ell lads. Our best football is playing short snappy football not hoof it!
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