Toby Alderweireld
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Of the 3 we're linked with I'm most on board with Mina with the mentality that all 3 are a bit of a gamble, but he's the youngest and less financial risk but he has some outstanding qualities that might help in the area we seem to be weakest defensively which is defending set pieces.
Watching him in the world cup I thought he looked like a potential star for someone who takes a chance on him. I wasnt really thinking it would be us and I do think its a risk but given the other CBs we are linked with arent particularly great defenders either, its a risk I'm more at ease with.
Most of all I'd like people to appreciate the players we already have. They might not be perfect but neither are the players we are linked to. We just arent watching them every single week and breaking down every mistake they make and so our posters arent hurling abuse at them.
As I said previously I do believe that Toby would be an improvement on Jones and Bailly, not sure about Lindelof because even though he isnt my style of CB he was fairly solid the world cup so I'd give him another chance before I say Toby is better.
But for £60 million I don't expect defending like some of the above. For me thats a price way above his worth.
What a load of absolute shite
Exactly - you could make a similar list for all CB's.
Mina = Tall Colombian version of Phil Jones. Comfortably worse than Rojo. Worth 10M 6 months ago and not worth much more now really. 18M tops.
Maguire = Rate him, very good defender imo, not that old either. England's best centre back atm. I'd pay as much as 70M to get him if I could.
Alderweireld = Comfortably the best of the 3, top class. Is 29 which isn't old but isn't young. My main concern about him is that he is coming off an injury riddled season. He is NOT injury prone, unless we are talking about in the last 12 months. The last 12 months are some to forget for him on an individual level. Nevertheless I hope we sign him. I'd prefer us not getting absolutely shafted for him though.
Maguire = Rate him, very good defender imo, not that old either. England's best centre back atm. I'd pay as much as 70M to get him if I could.
Alderweireld = Comfortably the best of the 3, top class. Is 29 which isn't old but isn't young. My main concern about him is that he is coming off an injury riddled season. He is NOT injury prone, unless we are talking about in the last 12 months. The last 12 months are some to forget for him on an individual level. Nevertheless I hope we sign him. I'd prefer us not getting absolutely shafted for him though.
You’ll turn your nose up at Alderweireld but you’d fancy Mina
Would you have mentioned his name before the World Cup?https://mobile.twitter.com/Alderwei...0?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
There may be trouble ahead....
There may be trouble ahead....
Delighted with this news. Hopefully we don't sign him.
This. I find it funny that many seem to prefer him over other options, when Mina had an atrocious season Last year, but had an OK World Cup. But yet I thought we weren’t supposed to judge players off the back of a tournament, as many have arduously stated in the Maguire thread (Maguire also had a much better season). He would be yet another disappointing CB signing, unless we got him for a really low price alongside another Defensive acquisition .
I might just add that this particular poster has laid into people in the Maguire thread for wanting him off the back of a tournament run...You’ll turn your nose up at Alderweireld but you’d fancy Mina
Jose and his previous history with pregnancies.
It was a poor joke. Compounded by a failed attempt to embed a tweet.
As you were.
Ya let’s not sign anyone that’s better.
Who could we realistic sign better?
Godin, who many here and in the football world cite as one of the best defenders in the world (and I agree with) is 32.would we have turned our noses up at him 3 years ago?
Okay you might argue you think godin is the better player, but alderweireld is certainly a top defender. 29 is not an issue
Okay you might argue you think godin is the better player, but alderweireld is certainly a top defender. 29 is not an issue
You realise that's just a reference to the fact they're expecting a baby together, right?
Aye. See my comment above.
You’ll turn your nose up at Alderweireld but you’d fancy Mina
Would I have mentioned Ronaldo's name before a friendly with Sporting?
It’s clear we’re after a centre back so there’s no point in us highlighting the obvious need for a left back and right sided forward as it’s not Jose’s priority, Alderweireld is one of the best centre backs in Europe when fit and on form so clearly the best available.
When Smalling plays alongside an intelligent ball playing partner he looks a great centre back as all he has to do is focus on defending and as a pure defender Smalling is good at that and I imagine Bailly would be the same, if we can get Alderweireld signed or pretty much done by Tuesday we MIGHT have time to sign a right sided forward too but I don’t think Jose is bothered about a left back now.
When Smalling plays alongside an intelligent ball playing partner he looks a great centre back as all he has to do is focus on defending and as a pure defender Smalling is good at that and I imagine Bailly would be the same, if we can get Alderweireld signed or pretty much done by Tuesday we MIGHT have time to sign a right sided forward too but I don’t think Jose is bothered about a left back now.
During his first Chelsea stint;
Carvalho (Good)
Boulahrouz
Jarosik
Alex
Rajkovic
Alcides
Inter
Lucio (good)
Real Madrid
Varane (good)
Carvalho
Chelsea 2nd time
Zouma
Hector
Djilobodji
Us
Bailly (jury out)
Lindelof (Jury out)
Almost perfect?
The few times I actually remember his performances, I don't think think he improves our biggest weakness defensively which is being good in the air because he's average in that department. Still, he would add a new dimension to the team because he is properly great on the ball, both in ability and application.
why dont we get Mina and Toby? Sell on Jones and Rojo
Still don't understand the need for a CB. I really like Bailly and Lindelof as players, and then the others are good to back those two up. More pressing issues for me in this team if I'm honest. Left Fullback, Right Winger and Central Midfield to name but a few.
Random thought biut i think that guy is total class act. One of the best defenders I've seen in my time watching football, which is 18 years roughly.
Love it when our players are praised like this instead of being torn apart.
Does the window close on 9th of Aug?
He's having a baby? Holy shit, Mourinho must absolutely detest him now.
Yes, at 5pm
Pretty much
Lindelof played 3 more matches so its possible Toby would have caught him on Headed clearances, but no chance on Aerial battles against opponents. This is the reason that people are giving as to why Lindelof isnt good enough but statistically at least he's better at it than Toby, so we'll only get worse at our defense's biggest problem with Toby instead.
Oh wow. Here's the one for those many posters hoping that we sign Toby and replace Smalling with him in the team
Do bare in mind that Smalling played 29 times to Toby's 14 but even if you doubled Toby's headers he wouldnt come close to the work Smalling does for us at the back
It's even funnier when you compare Maguire to Smalling (the first is apparently amazing in the aerial battles and Smalling is cack overall, aerial battles included) and it turns out that Maguire won just 11 aerial battles more than Smalling and had 26 more headed clearances. Maguire playing 9 games more or roughly 900 minutes more if you will.
Surely people (yourself included) see the glaringly obvious flaw in the way you're attempting to analyse?
What you're essentially saying is that a player that has had to deal with more crosses is somehow better? Or, inversely, that Alderweireld is worse because he's not had to make as many clearances?
What you should be concentrating on is goals conceded - just because Mourinho's defensive tactics invite more crosses/long balls than attacking football, does not mean that Smalling/Jones are suddenly Maldini and Puyol.
Again I dont think Smalling is getting the credit he deserves. He's not cack at aerial battles. Occasionally someone who is good in the air beats him to a set piece which is probably the one area that he isnt a top class defender when he doesnt have the ball. That doesnt make him cack, it just isnt his strongest point and could do with some help from teammates who are just as good as he is at it.
He tends to be "delighted" at people we don't sign. Rarely have I ever notice him stick his neck it with a name. He's just a moron, basically.
Vertonghen played 36 games to Toby's 14. Double Toby's numbers and add 5 if you want
Also the player who outperformed and replaced him
Sanchez 31 games to 14
Because Mina is fecking rubbish.
I think if we sign Toby (or Maguire) we'd largely be moving towards a 3 man backline which Smalling would be a part of with Bailly or Lindelof as the 3rd member. Smalling has issues with the ball but he's our best natural defender and one of the best CBs in the PL in the air.
Let’s just sign both Maguire and Alderweireld then sell Jones, Lindelof, Darmian and Rojo and then if that doesn’t work as they’ll both be Jose buys then on Jose’s head be it.
Cut the shit, Alderweireld would easily be the best CB at the club. These stats are boring.
Pretty much
Lindelof played 3 more matches so its possible Toby would have caught him on Headed clearances, but no chance on Aerial battles against opponents. This is the reason that people are giving as to why Lindelof isnt good enough but statistically at least he's better at it than Toby, so we'll only get worse at our defense's biggest problem with Toby instead.
Oh wow. Here's the one for those many posters hoping that we sign Toby and replace Smalling with him in the team
Do bare in mind that Smalling played 29 times to Toby's 14 but even if you doubled Toby's headers he wouldnt come close to the work Smalling does for us at the back
Today I learned heading is all that matters for a CB...
This potential transfer has always been fascinating because there is just so much unknown with Toby the past year and a half.
In 2015-16 he was clearly the best defender in the PL and utterly dominant and then started the 16-17 season in the same form. He had a bad knee injury that October which he returned from a bit hurriedly as Spurs tried to chase Chelsea down, and he was a step slower and his aerial ability slipped as well. The thought was that with the whole summer off he would return back to his earlier form for the 17-18 season and all would return to normal (including a big contract extension with Tottenham).
But then something strange happened. Spurs spent a club record fee that summer on another center half that plays his exact same preferred spot (right side of a back 2). Spurs started the season slowly and Toby still didn't look back to his 15-16 self. Sanchez came in and everyone thought Toby would be in the center of a back 3 and ... nope, it was Sanchez. The contract negotiations didn't go anywhere and Spurs didn't exactly seem bothered to try and retain him - no upgraded offer, nothing. Sanchez just effectively usurped Toby's role even before his injury, and once he injured his hamstring ... that was probably it for his Spurs career.
So what to make of all this? Pochettino and Levy clearly decided after the 17-18 season that Toby was going to be replaced before Vertonghen (thus the club record fee on Davinson Sanchez). Were they worried his knee injury was career limiting? Were they already sure that he would not sign a new deal? Were they just hedging their bets? I honestly have no clue, but that Sanchez signing basically sent the signal that Toby was done as part of Spurs long term plans ... even before his hamstring injury in 17-18.
If United get a healthy Toby who is at his 15-16 levels, this transfer is a bargain. If you get the version who limped around in 17-18, I'm not sure he even starts for you (he definitely would not start for Spurs). The fact Spurs seem happy to move him and cash in without really any tussle to keep him is fairly bizarre, to say the least.
In 2015-16 he was clearly the best defender in the PL and utterly dominant and then started the 16-17 season in the same form. He had a bad knee injury that October which he returned from a bit hurriedly as Spurs tried to chase Chelsea down, and he was a step slower and his aerial ability slipped as well. The thought was that with the whole summer off he would return back to his earlier form for the 17-18 season and all would return to normal (including a big contract extension with Tottenham).
But then something strange happened. Spurs spent a club record fee that summer on another center half that plays his exact same preferred spot (right side of a back 2). Spurs started the season slowly and Toby still didn't look back to his 15-16 self. Sanchez came in and everyone thought Toby would be in the center of a back 3 and ... nope, it was Sanchez. The contract negotiations didn't go anywhere and Spurs didn't exactly seem bothered to try and retain him - no upgraded offer, nothing. Sanchez just effectively usurped Toby's role even before his injury, and once he injured his hamstring ... that was probably it for his Spurs career.
So what to make of all this? Pochettino and Levy clearly decided after the 17-18 season that Toby was going to be replaced before Vertonghen (thus the club record fee on Davinson Sanchez). Were they worried his knee injury was career limiting? Were they already sure that he would not sign a new deal? Were they just hedging their bets? I honestly have no clue, but that Sanchez signing basically sent the signal that Toby was done as part of Spurs long term plans ... even before his hamstring injury in 17-18.
If United get a healthy Toby who is at his 15-16 levels, this transfer is a bargain. If you get the version who limped around in 17-18, I'm not sure he even starts for you (he definitely would not start for Spurs). The fact Spurs seem happy to move him and cash in without really any tussle to keep him is fairly bizarre, to say the least.
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