I agree with all you saying here. Just saying it's not the end of the world if we can't replace Carrick like for like. Having someone like Pogba (including his potential to learn and improve) open many possibilities of midfield partnership. Cheers.
Tiemoue Bakayoko
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Even after Pirlo he had Marchisio sitting behind him who is an experienced, intelligent CM with a good passing game. Pogba needs a player that not only provides a defensive net behind him, but one that can consistently feed the ball to him so he can stay higher up the pitch.
I wasn't referring to Bakayoko in that regard, he's not a DM, he's a box to box CM the same as Ander, the one that sits deep for Monaco is Fabinho. The key component missing when you take Carrick out is not a physical one, but a brain to orchestrate that midfield.
This is a signing that I really want to happen.
I was very impressed by him against Spurs and the few Monaco games I caught this season.
I was very impressed by him against Spurs and the few Monaco games I caught this season.
What happened to our brain in the 2009 and 2011 UCL finals when Barca completely nullified Carrick pretty easily?
Carrick has been a very good player for us in the EPL, but against the European elite he would get found out and was found out.
Keane over Carrick anyday of the week.
15 years ago, that player was usually the #10. The important thing is for the midfielders to have enough quality to deal with a high pressing line, that or the team having some other means to cope against pressing. Beyond that, the hub can be anyone. Ibra himself was that for Inter and Milan. Henry, Bergkamp and Pires did that for arsenal. I think Ibra, Mhky, Pogba and Herrera can share the job just fine. The only thing to see would be Pogba's effectiveness
The team doesn't necessarily need a brain in midfield. The evidence, however, strongly suggests Paul Pogba does...
Well on those 2 occassions he faced two brains that were superior to his in Xavi and Iniesta, I mean we are talking about arguably the greatest midfield in history.
Playing him with Giggs in CM was a ridiculously stupid idea by Fergie. If the criticism of Carrick is that he struggled twice against the best club side in recent years and among the greatest ever, well that's fine.
Carrick has performed well against other European sides during his time at United also.
I agree we were up against a formidable midfield pairing but Carrick wasn't mobile enough to counter their pressing.
There used to be posts about how Carrick wasn't mobile enough to play against the very best during SAF's reign. We don't see posts like that anymore due to us not being good enough to play against the elite in the last 3 years. Us not being good enough to challenge the elite of European football in the last 3 years has definitely helped Carrick extend his stay at Old Trafford.
But Keane was a far better player and an intelligent one too, so there is no Carrick vs Keane.
I trust Mourinho's judgement but don't we already have a similar player at the club who we could develop into a top midfielder? Fosu-Mensah is brilliant, I have high hopes for the lad and signing Bakayoko could stop Fosu-Mensah from getting game time. We'll see what happens I guess.
They didn't nullify Carrick they simply had a numerical advantage in CM which SAF had no response for. In the 09 final we started with a midfield 3 of Ando/Giggs/Carrick which simply isn't on the same level as Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets but for the first 15mins while it was 3v3 in CM we dominated until Guardiola moved Messi from the right wing into Etoo central position where it became 4v3 and they completely bossed us. Lot's of speculation in lead up to the 11 final on how Fergie would deal with Messi in those areas but come game time he had no answer and infact it got worse as he decided to start with both Hernandez and Rooney up top which left us even shorter in CM and again they bossed us.
Carrick has been playing vs the elite of Europe for his entire United career and never been found out.
That's correct and I agree wholeheartedly.
All I'm saying is I would prefer a player of similar style to Keane.
As an Irishman, I obviously love Keane. But I think people undervalue the role Carrick played in our rise to European supremacy shortly after arriving.
06/07: Semi-finals
07/08: Winners
08/09: Runners-up
09/10: Quarter finals
10/11: Runners-up
To be honest, I don't understand. It's like saying I would prefer someone like Rijkaard, obviously you would but they don't grow on trees.
He speaks very highly of you too...
And as a football fan, I'm telling you that Keane was a superior player, it's not a knock on Carrick, Keane was amazing and extremely complete.
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As a corner flag, I agree.
He was very good but I feel the over-rating of his abilities on our forums by our fans is quite incredible.
Also Ronaldo was the main protagonist in most of them UCL runs.
There were many players that had the ability to come into the team and perform with distinction. But all we heard was there wasn't another Keane, there wasn't another Scholes etc.To be honest, I don't understand. It's like saying I would prefer someone like Rijkaard, obviously you would but they don't grow on trees.
Players like Vidal went to Juve for €9m, whilst we bought Ashley Young for £18m in the same window.
I disagree. Carrick up against their playmaker in Xavi and Giggs to match the agility of their dribbler, Iniesta. Plus, as has been said, 4v3.
The way it worked was that Carrick was outnumbered in midfield and was usually up against both Xavi and Busqets because of the way the players were positioned. Fletcher was a big loss in the 2009 final because his work rate would have made that a more evenly matched situation.
The 2011 final was suicide going with a 2 man midfield with Giggs as the partner for Carrick. There was never a chance that was going to work out for us and to not shift our tactics at halftime when the match was still tied was poor.
The truth is their players were technically superior to ours all over the pitch.
The only way we could've got a result in that game in my opinion was to play a ultra defensive game. But we didn't have a single player in midfield who was upto the task to play the containing game and hence made Barca look better than they were.
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Thing is, Keane had the ability to dictate our play too, albeit in a way that was different to either of Scholes or Carrick. What we wouldn't want to do though is bring in someone with Keane's workrate and agression but without that ability to dictate our play. If that dumbed down version of Keane replaced Carrick then our midfield would be disjointed, even with all the other qualities a Keanesque player brings.
I just remembered that Park was switched to the inside and Giggs was pushed outside. So maybe it was suicide. However, it's not as if even 3-lung Park was able to do anything about the man advantage that Barcelona had. I think our tactics were just flawed and we should have had a way to have another player in there.
In his era. He wouldn't last in the modern game. Too aggressive. Carrick wouldn't have made it in the mid 90's.
Krychowiak at age of 26 (will be 27 this month) wouldn't be a bad option especially for January but there may be some questions about his current form and attitude towards joining bigger clubs after being benched a bit too many times for a player supposedly reaching his best years. I'm sure Arsenal or Liverpool would be also interested at some point but if it's gonna be Bakayoko or even someone else it's quite safe to trust Mou at this point who already in just few months managed to inject some life and freedom into midfield.
Personally for me, it's really hard to ignore Bakayoko's drive for racing with the ball forward for a defensive type of footballer and despite Krychowiak's superior experience on both stages for now the French lad got a proper momentum of making step forward and joing club like United packed with many players he could find understanding almost immediately.
If someone like Kante can thrive in the modern era then Roy Keane certainly would too.
You're correct about Keane having the ability to dictate play and it was amazing he did it in a midfield two. But any new midfield acquisition would play in a 3 man midfield and would share the workload.
But I'm hoping Mourinho can bring in a all-rounder.
He wasn't more aggressive than Vidal is today.
Kanté is a lot quicker and more agile. Keane had great stamina, but Kanté eats up the turf and his acceleration is good. Incredibly agile.
Keane was very quick and as far as I'm concerned there isn't much in it as far as pace goes between the players.
Was he though?
Yes he was, I watched his entire career ever since he arrived from Forest in 1993.
Probably one of the more bizzare statements I've read on here, but your eyes are your eyes.
Are you 12yrs old?
This Carrick thing is seriously getting too much. Keane is so much better than Carrick in any era, any world and any universe.
Keane dictated a football match in a way Carrick could only dream.
Why, are you a paedophile?
Yet we didn't see him dictate his way to many European finals. You hate what you perceive as one extreme, so you posted the opposite extreme. Right then.
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