As noted by the trophies won by England and Tottenham since he's been a regular.
(Not a Kane diss, just he's not enough)
Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?
- Thread starter sullydnl
- Start date
- Status
(Not a Kane diss, just he's not enough)
The thing is, unless a manager has been at a club for like 3 seasons plus, every manager has to deal with Frankenstein squads. It's absolutely not easy to chop and change players and sometimes players are so good that they'll outlast multiple managers irrespective of their personality (perceived or actual).
I dont know about that. I know there were a couple of managers between them but Brendan Rodgers to Klopp looked a fairly natural progression. There was a consistency to the players they targetted for a while. When Guardiola moves on whoever takes over wont have a Frankenstein squad, it might not suit them but it'll be very good at a few specific things.
Onana
Todibo Tosin Martinez
Dalot Mainoo Onana Shaw
Bruno Garnacho
Hoijlund
Todibo Tosin Martinez
Dalot Mainoo Onana Shaw
Bruno Garnacho
Hoijlund
Garnacho to Rotate with Mount.
really think this would work under Tuchel.
Ancelotti is in the bracket below? WHAT?
I'm very sure people at City find Pep annoying. He's winning though so they put up with him. He and Cancelo didn't fall out because Pep was not annoying.
Yeah, it might be a bit harsh. Perhaps he belongs in the top bracket. I just look at the tactical evolution Pep has brought to the game, and perhaps Klopp to an extent in the PL, and I think that sets them apart. Maybe Pep top tier, Klopp and Ancelotti below, then the likes of Tuchel below them. It's splitting hairs but Pep is definitely the better coach, and probably Klopp too.
I love Garnacho. But with that formation, Mount in place of Garnacho is the most app. Garnacho can play in Shaw’s
I will be jealous of man utd if manutd appoint tuchel as coach. Best coach for me in the world and gundogan vouched for that. He said tactically best coach he played under and he played under him,pep and klopp.
As noted by the sheer amount of goals he scores. You don't rate players impact off team trophies.
Didn't PSG had no pre season too? They had to play their first league game just around a week after they lost the CL final.
It was around two weeks but yeah PSG had no preseason.
The manager is not considered a God in Bayern though, so firing him is not an act of sacrilege. Their measure success by trophies winning, not by how many years an undeperforming manager remains in the bench.
They've won something like the last 10 league titles before this one, go consistently in the semis of UCL, and won it twice in the last 10 years (might even win it this year). They're a very well-run club.
Very well-run club is a stretch. They are a very successful club but their executives are maniacs who thrive in chaos, a chaos that they generally create for no particular reason. Bayern isn't an example to follow because it's highly unlikely that you are as comfortable in constant drama.
They were a very well-run club to be fair. But they really messed up to replace Rummennigge and Hoeneß as their leading figures, both still have a lot of influence, their successors were unconvincing, there has been a lot of turmoil recently. Now they really are in constant drama mode, but until a few years ago they really were excellently managed.
Nah. FC Hollywood was in constant drama with Rummennigge and Hoeneß, they are a very successful club but they are not very well run and weren't with the men you mentioned. Bayern are actually the typical example of how you can be successful while not being run particularly well. And the tricks are... When you mess up something tear it down and move on, the other one is that generating money is extremely important so take good care of the commercial side of things.
Commercially Bayern are very will run but on the Football side of things they are chaotic and have been for as long as I can remember which is the 90s.
I have warmed more and more to the idea lately. It would be a much needed display of ambition to get rid of Ten Hag and replace him with Tuchel. He is a proper coach, which is something this club hasn't had in a long time. Probably the best out there that's realistically available. The time to strike is now. How INEOS go about the manager issue will be telling.
Hard to argue we’re not up there for entertainment, much of it is just at our cost.
Hoeneß took decades to establish Bayern as the most dominant force in German football. Hadn't they been well run under him since the late 70s they would never have broken all those records. But you are right, it was always a bit of a mix between some years when it all looked quite competent and also years when it became chaotic - times like when the moniker "FC Hollywood" started.
I actually would argue that they had their strongest phase in regard to management while they went from Klinsmann to Ancelotti - realized they need to modernize a lot, then found LvG to create a baseline for the next decade, having Heynckes and Guardiola evolve and maintain that team. Ancelotti was the last manager appointment who really made a lot of sense in my view, and since then it slowly started to degrade again. Now we seem to be at the point where they as you say have to tear everything down and rebuild.
My point of contention is with the very part which is why I said it was a stretch. Overall Bayern are well run simply because there are key things that they do not mess up, their finances have been on point for almost ever and they accept their mistakes, they don't sweep them under the carpet. The issue with suggesting that they are very well run is that they provoke their own mess on a regular basis without the help of any outsiders.
To me there is a nuance that is required, things aren't either very well or very poor/poor. And to me Bayern are an example of that, in some aspect they are very well run(financially) and in others they are terribly run(self created instability). And in the context of this thread, Bayern isn't a good example because it is nearly impossible to replicate it.
Yes, I think I agree, just assuming that you are talking overall of longer timescales than I do. It's definitely true that they tend to self-combust every once in a while.
I think so many top clubs like bayern nowadays are blessed they dont have to play in the premier league. I think this season if bayern and madrid played in the prem, they would both finish below 3rd. It’s not to say the prem is the best league, but i think the variety and difficulty of the lower table opponents is crazy. Compare it to other leagues and teams like almeria, hoffenheim, heidenheim, getafe etc, its no wonder they dominate their respective leagues.
Who said anything about this? Because I don't understand what it is in response to? I didn't say anything about how Bayern have been ran in the past 10 years. I said that what they did these last year in firing Nagelsmann, firing Kahn and Salihamidžić for the way they handled firing Nagelsmann. Then trying to get back Nagelsmann back only to be turned down by him has been an extremely shambolic act that shows a club that has been badly ran during that period. The whole sequence of actions, not the firing of a manager as you seem to fixate on because it looks like you're more interested in driving some reactionary agenda about how to treat a manager. If the actions of Bayern over the past 12 months were not amateurish, they would not have made so many changes to their executive structure recently to ensure a more competent running of their operations. But again, you don't seem to be even focusing on this but rather just annoyed at how some of our fans are perceived to stick too long with a manager.
His trophies make him an elite tier manager. Tactical revolution can go in the bin when you've been a proven success at multiple clubs and still doing it in his advanced age. Better coach is immaterial, his results speak for themselves. There are many ways to play the game and his has been successful and puts him in the elite tier.
Not much use for a game changer if he's not helping you win stuff. That's the whole point.
It's a team game.
Better coach is immaterial in a discussion about who are the best coaches?
Mmm maybe, I think Garnacho would thrive in a role where he could drift out to either wing, don’t think he’d thrive as a wing back. Mount does fit, I actually think it’s a system we could go too without too much big money signings.
Is Tuchel a better coach than ETH?
By all things considered, a resounding yes.
Would Tuchel fit in well in the current Utd?
Not so sure.
Do we know what we get with Tuchel?
Yes. Decent performance until he implodes after 2 years, much like Mourinho.
Do I want Tuchel at Utd?
No, I want a coach that punches above his weight. A younger coach with unknown potential, see Alonso 18 months ago.
By all things considered, a resounding yes.
Would Tuchel fit in well in the current Utd?
Not so sure.
Do we know what we get with Tuchel?
Yes. Decent performance until he implodes after 2 years, much like Mourinho.
Do I want Tuchel at Utd?
No, I want a coach that punches above his weight. A younger coach with unknown potential, see Alonso 18 months ago.
Maybe I didn't phrase that correctly. It's not relevant whose side looks better drilled or who is using revolutionary tactics. It's a results business.
Sorry Thomas seems INEOS are keeping Erik, fully expect his odds to now drift out but hope I am proved totally wrong but doubt it after interview
Last edited:
Me too. It’s a risk of course, but everything involves risk - even if you get a proven manager it’s far from guaranteed he’ll be a success at this club. And with Tuchel, as you say, the probability of failure is quite high - and the chance of sustained success is non existent. We need sustained success, not short term success. Take the chance on an upcoming manager and stick with him if there’s gradual improvement in performances. I don’t care if we end up mid table next year or even the year after, if we’re on the right track to becoming an established top 3 team again.
Currently doing his best EtH impersonation
Better than Southgate of Di Zerbe... but then so is a stick of celery. There must be better out there. Meanwhile, Kieran McKenna possibly sending a message for some time in the future
What a nonsense narrative. With all due respect. His teams have never fully imploded like Mourinho's to the point where they are finishing 10th like Mou's Chelsea side.
In Tuchel's "implosion" season, his teams still perform relatively well. He's proven that at Dortmund, Chelsea (nobody since Tuchel has been able to even get near his level in terms of performance & results), PSG, and now at Bayern where they are competing for a Champions League.
2nd best against Stuttgart today. Have rested a lot of players but that goes to show you can’t play how you want without certain players. That’s how ETH must be feeling.
People defending him of getting fired from his last 4 consecutive jobs is nonsense. He is a known quantity and an uninspiring choice.
First and only PSG manager to date to get them to the CL final, sure he didn't win it but you cannot make excuses for ETH and talk about structure, but then willingly ignore the issues PSG used to have. The same applies here at Bayern Munich with their crappy structure. Again, at Chelsea, he was hard done by Boehly and no manager since him has been able to perform in that environment.
He may not be on the level of Pep or Klopp, but he is far and away clear of Erik Ten Hag (as you've already mentioned).
Last edited:
Dortmund didn´t play a single starter from midweek and won 5-1.
Lots of managers get fired. If we only had those that had never been fired, we’d only have very inexperienced candidates or Pep. Everyone else has been sacked at least once. Ancelotti several times and he has a very good argument as the greatest manager ever…
- Status