Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?

Would you appoint Thomas Tuchel as the next Manchester United manager?

  • Total voters
    916
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
VP89 said:
Because that's the only success story he has in a big league. He effectively bombed just now with Bayern too.
Click to expand...
Weird take. Let's look at what he has won:

Bayern: Bundesliga, might get a CL (yes, that's underwhelming)
Chelsea: Champions League, UEFA Super Cup, FIFA Club World Cup
PSG: 2x French League, 2x French Super Cup, French Cup, French League Cup
Dortmund: German Cup

I'd argue so far PSG was actually his biggest success story, he has won the most stuff and got them unique achievements (their only CL final)
Just looking at the league you have to consider Dortmund's second highest points total ever, even if that wasn't enough against Pep's Bayern.
 
stefan92 said:
Weird take. Let's look at what he has won:

Bayern: Bundesliga, might get a CL (yes, that's underwhelming)
Chelsea: Champions League, UEFA Super Cup, FIFA Club World Cup
PSG: 2x French League, 2x French Super Cup, French Cup, French League Cup
Dortmund: German Cup

I'd argue so far PSG was actually his biggest success story, he has won the most stuff and got them unique achievements (their only CL final)
Just looking at the league you have to consider Dortmund's second highest points total ever, even if that wasn't enough against Pep's Bayern.
Click to expand...
Winning titles at PSG is not difficult. The Bayern story is a capitulation thus far, let's not try and pretend it isn't. He did well at Chelsea with 5 at the back and a pragmatic style, which was insanely boring to watch before it got sour.

I think the point is clear.
 
VP89 said:
Winning titles at PSG is not difficult. The Bayern story is a capitulation thus far, let's not try and pretend it isn't. He did well at Chelsea with 5 at the back and a pragmatic style, which was insanely boring to watch before it got sour.

I think the point is clear.
Click to expand...
He played 5 at the back because when he came in the defense was in shambles. Chelsea were conceding goals left and right and the back line consisted of either aging or inconsistent players. Add to that, Kante had become injury prone. Unlike your current coach who insists on suicidal tactics, Tuchel plsyed a formation that enabled that team punch way above it's weight. We have seen just how much Chelsea had spent clearing that squad since he left and how bad they have been since he left.
 
He’d be a big upgrade ETH and it’s going to take a while to sort the squad out. Money this summer in particular is likely to be very tight so he is possibly someone who could make most of what he has for 2-3 years.

I expect things to become untenable for ETH over next few games and Tuchel is surely the favourite to succeed him. It’s not perfect but I think persisting with ETH next season is a complete waste of time.
 
VP89 said:
Winning titles at PSG is not difficult. The Bayern story is a capitulation thus far, let's not try and pretend it isn't. He did well at Chelsea with 5 at the back and a pragmatic style, which was insanely boring to watch before it got sour.

I think the point is clear.
Click to expand...
He’s been successful in multiple countries, winning plenty of major honours. He got PSG to the CL final which no other manager has done. He hasn’t capitulated at Bayern, he’s up against a team that literally don’t lose matches.
He’s a significant upgrade on who we have currently, a lot more proven and a lot more successful.
 
Dec9003 said:
He’s been successful in multiple countries, winning plenty of major honours. He got PSG to the CL final which no other manager has done. He hasn’t capitulated at Bayern, he’s up against a team that literally don’t lose matches.
He’s a significant upgrade on who we have currently, a lot more proven and a lot more successful.
Click to expand...
He's not been a success for Bayern (unless he lands a CL, but even still it cant override the underwhelming nature of his domestic form and embarrassing cup exits) and he's won in a 1 horse league in France. When he was sacked he managed to be 3rd in that 1 horse league, so yeah.

Did well at Chelsea, not denying that. But it was a boring 5 at the back style, and wont fly here. We're going in circles.
 
VP89 said:
He's not been a success for Bayern (unless he lands a CL, but even still it cant override the underwhelming nature of his domestic form and embarrassing cup exits) and he's won in a 1 horse league in France. When he was sacked he managed to be 3rd in that 1 horse league, so yeah.

Did well at Chelsea, not denying that. But it was a boring 5 at the back style, and wont fly here. We're going in circles.
Click to expand...
His football at Chelsea wasn’t a boring back five style, that isn’t fair. He’s won a title at Bayern I believe, now he is leaving, probably an average job really unless he wins the CL. At PSG he was very good. He hasn’t capitulated like we have this season at any job really, we’re as low as 8th now. It’s alright saying France is a one team league but multiple managers have gone there and not won the league (Emery, Poch) both manage teams above us currently funnily enough.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Well that’s cause Chelsea fired him aint it? He was on just 3 wins in 7 and facing complete capitulation but was saved from the fate.
Click to expand...
Yeah, like we should have done this season. Though a bad start didn’t mean he was absolutely going to capitulate.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I reckon a lot of those saying “don’t want” would be downbeat if one of Liverpool/Chelsea(again)/Newcastle got him.

Because I personally would fancy them to be in the title picture with him leading the team

If they got a Potter, Southgate or De Zerbi I’d have been laughing and wouldn’t expect them to be much threat to the title picture
Click to expand...
Well, there are other promising managers out there, you know - in this league alone there are some very interesting ones, a couple in the Championship and then - as you might be aware - they also play football in other countries. For example the guy at Sporting might be worth a shot?

Lyng said:
Ten Hag seems to be quite terrible at man management as well
Click to expand...
Maybe, I’m not saying he must stay, just that I think Tuchel might not be the right man for the job.

crossy1686 said:
Does it matter? You hire the best manager on the market and then you reflect on that position every summer depending on how the current manager did.
Click to expand...
For me, yea very much. I don’t see this as a quick fix - in fact that’s the main reason we’ve been in this mess for more than a decade. Fans calling for yet another “proven winner” demanding some big name are a part of that.

We need patience and a manager with a long term plan who we then back up 100 %. I don’t care if we reach top 4 next year if the manager quits in anger and leaves the club and players in the dust.
 
Dec9003 said:
Yeah, like we should have done this season. Though a bad start didn’t mean he was absolutely going to capitulate.
Click to expand...

I mean, he definitely was, nothing was stopping that slide man, it’s taken 2 managers and 1.5 years to start looking like something.

It’s a strange argument though, as if ETH was sacked after say 10 games this season we could say the same about him.
The CL final argument is odd too as you could say the same about Poch there. (Though Poch’s was certainly a better achievement)

Truth is, Tuchel’s league performances with Chelsea were similar to what preceded him, then it went to absolute shite. He fecked up his last year at the easiest league job in Europe with PsG and then almost fecked two seasons running for the second easiest league job in Europe.
His two league point finishes for Bayern have been the worst of the past decade.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
Well, there are other promising managers out there, you know - in this league alone there are some very interesting ones, a couple in the Championship and then - as you might be aware - they also play football in other countries. For example the guy at Sporting might be worth a shot?
Click to expand...

Being condescending is an interesting choice given you didn’t have the capability to actually address a single thing that I said
 
For some reason, tuchel reminds me of that twitchy french police officer in the pink panther..the one that truly despises clouseau. I don't know why.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
For me, yea very much. I don’t see this as a quick fix - in fact that’s the main reason we’ve been in this mess for more than a decade. Fans calling for yet another “proven winner” demanding some big name are a part of that.

We need patience and a manager with a long term plan who we then back up 100 %. I don’t care if we reach top 4 next year if the manager quits in anger and leaves the club and players in the dust.
Click to expand...
Do you have any data to support this theory? Or is it purely based on Arteta and Arsenal?

The real reason we're in this mess is because of this line of thinking in the first place - "we must give a manager time". We've given managers who aren't good enough too long in the job, which has allowed them to ruin the squad beyond repair for the next incoming manager.

You don't just get time because you're the United manager, you have to earn it. Pep, Klopp, Arteta etc all earned their time by being good managers, they weren't given time in hope they became good managers, that's the difference.
 
crossy1686 said:
Do you have any data to support this theory? Or is it purely based on Arteta and Arsenal?

The real reason we're in this mess is because of this line of thinking in the first place - "we must give a manager time". We've given managers who aren't good enough too long in the job, which has allowed them to ruin the squad beyond repair for the next incoming manager.

You don't just get time because you're the United manager, you have to earn it. Pep, Klopp, Arteta etc all earned their time by being good managers, they weren't given time in hope they became good managers, that's the difference.
Click to expand...

inheriting a troubled squad and finishing 3rd with a trophy ( in 2 finals).
 
crossy1686 said:
Do you have any data to support this theory? Or is it purely based on Arteta and Arsenal?

The real reason we're in this mess is because of this line of thinking in the first place - "we must give a manager time". We've given managers who aren't good enough too long in the job, which has allowed them to ruin the squad beyond repair for the next incoming manager.

You don't just get time because you're the United manager, you have to earn it. Pep, Klopp, Arteta etc all earned their time by being good managers, they weren't given time in hope they became good managers, that's the difference.
Click to expand...

I’m not saying you just go out blindly and pick someone off the street and give him time. For a long term model to succeed you obviously need sporting directors and other senior staff who know what they’re doing. That seems to be our biggest post SAF problem, but hopefully the new modern structure will mitigate that.

You make it sound like we’ve been very patient with our managers, but we’ve had, what, 5-7 in a little over 10 years depending on whether you include caretakers or not. That’s mostly due to inept decision making from the bosses, probably influenced by the expectations from fans that United must win next year. First they thought we could just replicate SAF even though there were so obvious structural problems, then they panicked seeking instant success with Mou and LVG, then they hired a former player mostly because of his link with us…
What we need is proper top level management with modern leadership and scouting who find a group of suitable candidates from which we pick the one best suited to implement his own style of play over time. Then we buy him players he wants for key positions and give him time to succeed.
With Tuchel I fear we get another one or two seasons manager. I think we need one who stays for a decade building success gradually.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
I’m not saying you just go out blindly and pick someone off the street and give him time. For a long term model to succeed you obviously need sporting directors and other senior staff who know what they’re doing. That seems to be our biggest post SAF problem, but hopefully the new modern structure will mitigate that.

You make it sound like we’ve been very patient with our managers, but we’ve had, what, 5-7 in a little over 10 years depending on whether you include caretakers or not. That’s mostly due to inept decision making from the bosses, probably influenced by the expectations from fans that United must win next year. First they thought we could just replicate SAF even though there were so obvious structural problems, then they panicked seeking instant success with Mou and LVG, then they hired a former player mostly because of his link with us…
What we need is proper top level management with modern leadership and scouting who find a group of suitable candidates from which we pick the one best suited to implement his own style of play over time. Then we buy him players he wants for key positions and give him time to succeed.
With Tuchel I fear we get another one or two seasons manager. I think we need one who stays for a decade building success gradually.
Click to expand...
Why are we the only club in the world that needs a 'long term' model to be successful? Why do we need gradual success instead of winning games today?

If we have the right structure in place behind the manager then they are responsible for the long term project, not the manager so it doesn't matter how long the manager gets. His job is to solely get the best out of the team he has at his disposal, not decide that he's responsible for a full squad overhaul because the players he currently has can't play to his style so he's going to force shitness on us for 3 years until he's brought his own players in, which it sounds like what you're advocating for in our next manager, which will ultimately lead us down the same path we've been going down for years now.

Lets be clear about a few things that need to happen for United to be successful moving forward, the manager in charge needs to win games now, not in 3 seasons time when he has his 'own players'. We will all have patience with whomever comes in as long as there is clear progress, not a shit load of excuses and bad decisions. The structure now in place need to be responsible for recruitment of players and managers moving forward so they can have a long term perspective on squad building.

Your point also doesn't make sense, what do you think the new structure are going to do? Just sit behind the manager and watch him feck up the squad with his own recruitment? Bringing in players he's coached before or from the same management group? Once you remove this responsibility from the manager you realise he's incredibly indispensable, he's not part of the long term planning unless he's winning and forcing the issue, or at least building towards something positive. Also, what happens if we give the wrong manager 10 years? How much damage would that do to the club? Backing someone for the sake of a fallacy like manager + time = SAF. There's not a single scenario where a manager should be given 10 years at United for the sake of it unless of course they're winning major titles regularly.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
I’m not saying you just go out blindly and pick someone off the street and give him time. For a long term model to succeed you obviously need sporting directors and other senior staff who know what they’re doing. That seems to be our biggest post SAF problem, but hopefully the new modern structure will mitigate that.

You make it sound like we’ve been very patient with our managers, but we’ve had, what, 5-7 in a little over 10 years depending on whether you include caretakers or not. That’s mostly due to inept decision making from the bosses, probably influenced by the expectations from fans that United must win next year. First they thought we could just replicate SAF even though there were so obvious structural problems, then they panicked seeking instant success with Mou and LVG, then they hired a former player mostly because of his link with us…
What we need is proper top level management with modern leadership and scouting who find a group of suitable candidates from which we pick the one best suited to implement his own style of play over time. Then we buy him players he wants for key positions and give him time to succeed.
With Tuchel I fear we get another one or two seasons manager. I think we need one who stays for a decade building success gradually.
Click to expand...
If I have to choose the single most damaging thing the club has done is buying players the manager wants.

I do not understand how you at the same time say that we had a bad structure while advocating that the new structure should be there to buy the manager the players he wants. Because the previous structure did exactly that, hired a manager and bought him the players he wanted, and allowed him to veto perfectly good players that he didn’t want (Kroos for example).

If you think that the structure’s job is to be manager’s personal cheerleader and buy him the players he wants, we should reappoint Murtough and Woodward, preferably both and have them as the structure.
 
Roboc7 said:
He’d be a big upgrade ETH and it’s going to take a while to sort the squad out. Money this summer in particular is likely to be very tight so he is possibly someone who could make most of what he has for 2-3 years.

I expect things to become untenable for ETH over next few games and Tuchel is surely the favourite to succeed him. It’s not perfect but I think persisting with ETH next season is a complete waste of time.
Click to expand...
We shouldn’t just be looking for an upgrade on ETH though. We need someone who can come in with good man management, good tactically. Can build a squad and improve us consistently. I guarantee if we get Tuchel we’ll be looking for another manager in 2 years time. We need someone to lead us into this new era… whoever that may be will be lucky as it will be the first ever time we have actual football people running things above.
 
Nah not for me. We need to build a squad he’s not the type of manager you do that with in my opinion.
 
DJ_21 said:
We shouldn’t just be looking for an upgrade on ETH though. We need someone who can come in with good man management, good tactically. Can build a squad and improve us consistently. I guarantee if we get Tuchel we’ll be looking for another manager in 2 years time. We need someone to lead us into this new era… whoever that may be will be lucky as it will be the first ever time we have actual football people running things above.
Click to expand...

I'm not particularly impressed by Tuchel's record. I'm not sure he's under-performed at Bayern seeing as the points total would be enough to win the league most yeats and what he did at PSG was expected for that team but he did win a CL with Chelsea.

I agree he isn't a long-term appointment and frequently falls out with those above so I'm not sure why we'd go with him at this point. He could well improve us but we're not going to be in a position to win much for a few years by which time he'll have outstayed his welcome.
 
Castia said:
Nah not for me. We need to build a squad he’s not the type of manager you do that with in my opinion.
Click to expand...

With our new regime taking shape (Berrada,Wilcox, Ashworth, Blanc) they would be building squad. The days of managers being given million pound budgets and buying whoever they want are long gone.

Having said that I can’t say I’m too keen on Tuchel myself either, I enjoyed his BVB days but PSG and Chelsea not so much.
 
Castia said:
Nah not for me. We need to build a squad he’s not the type of manager you do that with in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Why is this sort of thing still being said? Managers aren't being hired to rebuild the squad anymore
 
Last edited:
AndySmith1990 said:
Why is this sort of thing still being said? Managers aren't being hired to rebuild the anymore
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's the same people who have said Ten Hag has failed because of the lack of structure so it's not his fault, then they say a new manager like Tuchel shouldn't be hired because he can't squad build. Which either means they have absolutely no fecking idea what they're talking about and they've heard someone else use the word 'structure' and thought it sounded like a good excuse or they're moving the goalposts to protect a man who is currently talking himself out of a job just to get a pay day.
 
Tuchel is a good fit for someone like Real Madrid. Not a good fit for a club like ours. We need someone smart, accomodating and willing to be open to career suicide.
 
adkb said:
Tuchel is a good fit for someone like Real Madrid. Not a good fit for a club like ours. We need someone smart, accomodating and willing to be open to career suicide.
Click to expand...
:lol:

That could be difficult to find. But I don't think you are wrong here either.
 
Revan said:
If I have to choose the single most damaging thing the club has done is buying players the manager wants.

I do not understand how you at the same time say that we had a bad structure while advocating that the new structure should be there to buy the manager the players he wants. Because the previous structure did exactly that, hired a manager and bought him the players he wanted, and allowed him to veto perfectly good players that he didn’t want (Kroos for example).

If you think that the structure’s job is to be manager’s personal cheerleader and buy him the players he wants, we should reappoint Murtough and Woodward, preferably both and have them as the structure.
Click to expand...
Hence “key positions”. It’s a balance of course, but if we get the right man for the long term we obviously need to let him have some influence.
 
dutchred said:
With the new organisation behind us I would go for Kieran McKenna.
Click to expand...
That’s a decent shout. But I think I’d prefer to let him have a season in the prem first with Ipswich. If he keeps them in first season then he’ll have more teams after him.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
For me, yea very much. I don’t see this as a quick fix - in fact that’s the main reason we’ve been in this mess for more than a decade. Fans calling for yet another “proven winner” demanding some big name are a part of that.

We need patience and a manager with a long term plan who we then back up 100 %. I don’t care if we reach top 4 next year if the manager quits in anger and leaves the club and players in the dust.
Click to expand...
The most important thing is that the manager can work within the long-term plan of the footballing structure above him. Not that they have the long-term plan themselves. In an ideal world the manager then becomes long-term for a decade or so, but they get that time by being successful. I think a lot of people have that around the wrong way - that the manager will become successful by giving them a long time.

It's important to note that by 'being successful' I don't mean instantly competing for trophies, but more that we see consistent improvement and development that will hopefully end with us then competing. If at some point that manager then hits a ceiling and is unable to push us further (or if we start going backwards) we then thank him for his work and move on to another manager that can hopefully take us further. I have no strong opinion on Tuchel either way, but if he comes in and stabilises the team and gets us moving the right way, that's absolutely fine for a couple of seasons. If we decide in 2 or 3 seasons that we want to let him and go and bring in another manager to finish the job, that's also fine.

Also, that doesn't mean that the manager shouldn't be taking a longer-term view at all. Just like Ashworth, Wilcox, etc shouldn't be ignoring short-term stuff. But generally, the manager's primary focus should be the current season while the others are primarily focused on the next 2-6 seasons.
 
Last edited:
crossy1686 said:
Exactly. It's the same people who have said Ten Hag has failed because of the lack of structure so it's not his fault, then they say a new manager like Tuchel shouldn't be hired because he can't squad build. Which either means they have absolutely no fecking idea what they're talking about and they've heard someone else use the word 'structure' and thought it sounded like a good excuse or they're moving the goalposts to protect a man who is currently talking himself out of a job just to get a pay day.
Click to expand...
Or maybe they think EtH should go, but don’t buy the Tuchel-big-name hype. I don’t want another Mou or LvG, I want a visionary. I also don’t want anyone without the least bit of self reflection and empathy in charge of young people. You need some degree of interest in human beings to get the best out of players today and I really doubt Tuchel has that.

We don’t need a new squad. We need strengthening in certain positions and a manager with a clear idea of how to play and a plan for how to get there.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
Or maybe they think EtH should go, but don’t buy the Tuchel-big-name hype. I don’t want another Mou or LvG, I want a visionary. I also don’t want anyone without the least bit of self reflection and empathy in charge of young people. You need some degree of interest in human beings to get the best out of players today and I really doubt Tuchel has that.

We don’t need a new squad. We need strengthening in certain positions and a manager with a clear idea of how to play and a plan for how to get there.
Click to expand...
That’s a description of Ten Hag, but not of Tuchel. Which others are there around?
 
MadDogg said:
The most important thing is that the manager can work within the long-term plan of the footballing structure above him. Not that they have the long-term plan themselves. In an ideal world the manager then becomes long-term for a decade or so, but they get that time by being successful. I think a lot of people have that around the wrong way - that the manager will become successful by giving them a long time.

It's important to note that by 'being successful' I don't mean instantly competing for trophies, but more that we see consistent improvement and development that will hopefully end with us then competing. If at some point that manager then hits a ceiling and is unable to push us further (or if we start going backwards) we then thank him for his work and move on to another manager that can hopefully take us further.

Also, that doesn't mean that the manager shouldn't be taking a longer-term view at all. Just like Ashworth, Wilcox, etc shouldn't be ignoring short-term stuff. But generally, the manager's primary focus should be the current season while the others are primarily focused on the next 2-6 seasons.
Click to expand...
I agree with that. By long term plan I meant for our style of play and how to get there, not structurally. I just don’t want a 1-2 seasons manager again who will only think short term when requesting players etc.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
Or maybe they think EtH should go, but don’t buy the Tuchel-big-name hype. I don’t want another Mou or LvG, I want a visionary. I also don’t want anyone without the least bit of self reflection and empathy in charge of young people. You need some degree of interest in human beings to get the best out of players today and I really doubt Tuchel has that.

We don’t need a new squad. We need strengthening in certain positions and a manager with a clear idea of how to play and a plan for how to get there.
Click to expand...
Tuchel has recently won a Champions League, something someone like Ten Hag or De Zerbi can't imagine. We don't need a visionary, we need someone to win as many games as possible with the squad they have available to them and then we give them new players to improve on that each season, which is the job of the 'structure' that's now in place.

Tuchel might not be the guy to take us forward but he might be the best available manager this summer, in which case we should hire him based on that principal alone. Then if someone better comes available in the next couple of years and Tuchel isn't doing anything of note then we replace him, and the structure stays the same, meaning the squad building and club focus stays the same.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Why is this sort of thing still being said? Managers aren't being hired to rebuild the squad anymore
Click to expand...

He's not the sort of manager to come in and wait 2-3 years whilst we build a squad he needs a team ready to go to be effective. In fact when his side isn't in absolute prime position to challenge he's a bang average manager that gets fired after falling out with half the players and board

Anybody wanting Tuchel to come in and babysit a squad overall is fecking clueless
 
Status
Not open for further replies.