Those doubting ETH - what is your contingency plan?

[jm99]

I think ten hag should be given one more year even if we miss the champions league, but if he missed it next year he'd have to go. But it's so weird how he seems to have built up near mythical status on here for some posters by winning a league cup and nothing else. We've gotten 1 point away at the top 9, we've had our biggest ever loss in the Premier league, worse than any of the thrashing under ole or rangnick, we went out of the europa league to sevilla who are 12th place or something in their own league, he continues to play one of the worst footballers we've had here in decades, and we've managed to score 8 less goals in the league than we did last year with 4 games to go, and last year wasn't exactly a stellar year for goalscoring.

But the way some people speak about him on here (wouldn't swap him for pep, no manager could do better with these players) you'd think he'd won a few league titles and champions leagues for us, to build up that kind of credit in the bank, it's genuinely bizarre.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

I want to see a dominating team who are drilled to perfection in build up play and high pressing. And create chances like our peers.

If we are still playing on the counter with Bruno and Rashford hero ball this time next year then ETH will have failed.

 

[wolvored]

Some of the fanbase on here. You would have the club broke with how quick you would sack someone. We would end up with half a dozen managers a season and all the cash would be going on paying ex managers big payoffs.

 

[duffer]

Gerrard and Lampard as co-managers with Benitez as DOF.

 

[KikiDaKats]

When the team starts playing lethargic (can’t finish a half) and the over all play decreases strongly, and the manager don’t rotate for cup games, and the manager isn’t using youngsters for fresh legs, it’s okay to have pressure on him. Even substitutions have been questioned.
He understands it’s a big job, he’s smart and will adjust

Oh yeah he will adjust. I hope these adjustments don’t take him too far off his philosophies. Though I tend to blame his man to man approach but that his football for us and it needs time to be fine tuned(in terms of fitness, understanding and personnel).

I acknowledge the PL and MU as a combo is a different beast but he will get it. That’s why second half of season 2 is when I tend to expect defining progression. If his approach at the end of his second season doesn’t look productive the pressure can mount up.

So for now I’d keep looking at the players being used and don’t fit into his plan, wondering why the hell is he doing it.

 

[ArmaDino]

Some fans on here (especially you @Revan ) geniunely need a reality check. Listening to you Pep, Klopp, Arteta all would have been sacked in the first season. Especially Pep who inherited a Title winning squad who finished 4th the season prior, spent 200 million and still finished 4th. And here is this supposed Dutch hipster outperforming all 3 of them in his first season.

He took a morally shattered squad full of toxicity and turned it around. Rashford who 80% of our fanbase considered finished is now on course to break the 30 goals a season for the first time in his career.(He is on 29 goals and 9 assists btw). Wan Bissaka and Dalot, both deadwood players have turned into our first team regulars. Shaw not only recaptured his old form, but also became a very good CB. All of this perfectly handling the Ronaldo saga, benching Maguire, being hamstrung by those greedy leeches that own club and not reinforcing in the winter when our squad was paper thin. And before the whole nepotism and Weghorst get brought up, reports have already rubbished the idea that we might sign him on permanent basis.

And yet somehow even with our current form we are still siting the Top4, winning our first trophy since 2017(I know it's a Carabao cup, but it's been 6 years since our last Mickey Mouse trophy), we are in a FA Cup final for the first time since 2016 and made Barcelona who are running away with La Liga look like Stoke City(the only goals they scored against us where set pieces). And yet, everything I listed is somehow identical to Ole. Go figure

The problem is he squeezed 110% from the players, and they are physically shattered. If SAF taught us anything it's that champions are made in the most absolute adverse moments. He will use our current squeeky bum time to see the players who mentally can handle a title race and those who won't. Regardless of the outcome for the Top4 race, he will use this opportunity to learn more about his current crop of players. It's clear as day that DDG is not part of his long term strategy. Be interesting to see who else is going to join him from our established senior players out the door.

Given enough time, another 2-3 years I can see Erik taking us to the top, provided the leeches feck off and let some competent men take charge. It's a work in progress

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Wait, you want to get rid of Shaw?? He's a contender for our player of the year imho. We've got enough crappy players that we need to replace without ditching the ones who are actually good and coming into the prime of their careers!

I’ve grown to like Shaw actually but during most successful rebuilds teams get rid of fan favourites. The fact he’s continually a candidate for PotY in a team that often has meh seasons is not a great sign.

I wouldn’t get rid of him immediately, or even in the next couple of years but I do think any success will come when he leaves. For the , name me tangible success he’s had?

As I said, he’s actually turned me round on him as a player but I think the mental battle scars of the big defeats & poor performances mean he’s only one set back away from returning to his low points, he’s exhibited these a few times this year amidst the decent form.

I agree we have more pressing concerns.

 

[Bastian]

Biggest complaint is to prioritize the league and Europa league only. The youngsters and squad should have been rotated for caraboa and FA Cup… we look completely tired. We can’t play a full game. Mcfred surrounded by youngsters should have been those cup games

I agree fully. And were we to lose out on top 4 I would hope we absolutely demote that as a priority and rest the first XI. That's the one thing I've been critical of this season (and I've had a bee in my bonnet about Antony) going full tilt at everything. And I see there are plenty of posters who say "we're United, we should be going full tilt for everything" without taking in the realism of our shite bench and obviously fatigued players. Maybe there's an overlap between some of those posters and some that in hindsight feel we should have done more to retain the freshness of key players. But yeah, he's had a bit of a mare in that regard. Which has still yielded two cup finals, should really have yielded another semi final in Europe and top 4 still within our hands. But post cup final it's not been pretty.

 

[croadyman]

The decision to buy him was Ten Hag's, but that was his wish list last spring and had we bought him in June he would have cost around 50 mil, if not less, but instead United wasted their entire summer chasing someone who didn't want to come, and for some reason United don't have the ability to work on two transfers at a time.

The fact he cost what he cost is all on Mutough and Arnold.

Oh yeah it was a complete wild goose chase trying to sign De Jong,like you say we could have got Antony for much more palatable figure earlier in the window.

 

[croadyman]

The contingency is to let him get a decent squad. We have played with no CF all season. Shock we can’t score goals because of it.

We are trying to play out from the back with a goalkeeper who can’t use his feet. Since injuries to our best CBs we are now back to two players who have made consistent errors for 5 years and should have been sold years ago. Ten Hag needs to be ruthless with De Gea. His contract should not be renewed and he should risk getting a goalie who can play out from the back even if this means his shot stopping reactions are worse than De Gea. Just like Pep did with Hart. Granted Bravo didn’t worked out for City but it started the process of changing the style of football for the season to come.

This will be an interesting transfer window. The ownership and FFP issues means there is a lack of funds. Ultimately we need a world class CF which could easily take our entire budget. We also need a new goalie, CM and potentially a RB and backup CB. There is no way we are getting 5 players in unless the Qataris buy the club.

Ultimately the limitations of this squad aren’t down to Ten Hag. Let’s just hope he’s ruthless enough to get rid of some of the squad, unlike previous seasons. The club needs to learn when to write off a loss.

Totally agree we need to follow City's lead when it comes to moving on from De Gea,also fear Erik is gonna be absolutely hamstrung by the ownership situation this summer so hard to be positive right now.

 

[croadyman]

Stopped reading at 'I wouldn't take Pep'

Pep is arguably top 4/5 managers of all time. These statements are absolutely stupid. He's a million miles the coach ETH is.

Not that he'd ever join us of course given his ties to City but you'd have to be a simpleton to prefer ETH over Pep Guardiola.

Our chance went when he couldn't understand what Fergie was saying or so the story goes,then again hadn't he given his word to Bayern. However if that wasn't the case then what the hell made Fergie choose Moyes instead.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I’ve grown to like Shaw actually but during most successful rebuilds teams get rid of fan favourites. The fact he’s continually a candidate for PotY in a team that often has meh seasons is not a great sign.

I wouldn’t get rid of him immediately, or even in the next couple of years but I do think any success will come when he leaves. For the , name me tangible success he’s had?

As I said, he’s actually turned me round on him as a player but I think the mental battle scars of the big defeats & poor performances mean he’s only one set back away from returning to his low points, he’s exhibited these a few times this year amidst the decent form.

I agree we have more pressing concerns.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'tangible success'? He's had to do all his development during a really crappy time for United, under 4 very different management styles. He's come back from a devastating injury that happened just as he was starting to fulfil his potential, and won his England place back after losing it for some time. He's starting to look and sound like a leader on the pitch and has seamlessly covered the centre-back role this season when needed. He was absolutely brilliant for England in the European Championships of a couple of years ago and voted best left-back at the tournament. But really, the only tangible thing that I'm interested in is his form, and that (barring him losing his mind in the Liverpool game - along with most of the team) has been excellent this year.

 

[TheRedHearted]

I agree fully. And were we to lose out on top 4 I would hope we absolutely demote that as a priority and rest the first XI. That's the one thing I've been critical of this season (and I've had a bee in my bonnet about Antony) going full tilt at everything. And I see there are plenty of posters who say "we're United, we should be going full tilt for everything" without taking in the realism of our shite bench and obviously fatigued players. Maybe there's an overlap between some of those posters and some that in hindsight feel we should have done more to retain the freshness of key players. But yeah, he's had a bit of a mare in that regard. Which has still yielded two cup finals, should really have yielded another semi final in Europe and top 4 still within our hands. But post cup final it's not been pretty.

Yeah, the good thing is we see he goes to win every game, good mentality but maybe he needed the check since he’s never played this many games before and also as physical as a league as the premier league. It’s also going to be a good talking point to insist on young players with a strong engine. He seems to be ruthless on the chopping board so let’s hope for a big sale. Just for gods sake let’s stray away from Dutch league/players only

 

[Oranges038]

Some fans on here (especially you @Revan ) geniunely need a reality check. Listening to you Pep, Klopp, Arteta all would have been sacked in the first season. Especially Pep who inherited a Title winning squad who finished 4th the season prior, spent 200 million and still finished 4th. And here is this supposed Dutch hipster outperforming all 3 of them in his first season.

He took a morally shattered squad full of toxicity and turned it around. Rashford who 80% of our fanbase considered finished is now on course to break the 30 goals a season for the first time in his career.(He is on 29 goals and 9 assists btw). Wan Bissaka and Dalot, both deadwood players have turned into our first team regulars. Shaw not only recaptured his old form, but also became a very good CB. All of this perfectly handling the Ronaldo saga, benching Maguire, being hamstrung by those greedy leeches that own club and not reinforcing in the winter when our squad was paper thin. And before the whole nepotism and Weghorst get brought up, reports have already rubbished the idea that we might sign him on permanent basis.

And yet somehow even with our current form we are still siting the Top4, winning our first trophy since 2017(I know it's a Carabao cup, but it's been 6 years since our last Mickey Mouse trophy), we are in a FA Cup final for the first time since 2016 and made Barcelona who are running away with La Liga look like Stoke City(the only goals they scored against us where set pieces). And yet, everything I listed is somehow identical to Ole. Go figure

The problem is he squeezed 110% from the players, and they are physically shattered. If SAF taught us anything it's that champions are made in the most absolute adverse moments. He will use our current squeeky bum time to see the players who mentally can handle a title race and those who won't. Regardless of the outcome for the Top4 race, he will use this opportunity to learn more about his current crop of players. It's clear as day that DDG is not part of his long term strategy. Be interesting to see who else is going to join him from our established senior players out the door.

Given enough time, another 2-3 years I can see Erik taking us to the top, provided the leeches feck off and let some competent men take charge. It's a work in progress

I agree with all this except that piece.

They've improved slightly. Those two guys no matter what they do, just aren't good enough. Like Maguire, Fred, McT etc.. if he had a decent suitable alternative neither of then would be in the team regularly. I also think the same would go for DDG.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Can I not doubt or criticize a manager without wanting a new one?

Sure you can.

I doubt ETH too, in the sense that I'm not convinced he has what it takes.

(But then again, I'm firmly in the "it ain't the so-called manager, it's the DOF and the upper management" camp, so to me assessing ETH's qualities as a (so-called) manager is only part of the equation.)

However, those who want him sacked if we fail to get top four should be able to provide an answer to the OP's question.

 

[justsomebloke]

De Zerbi's Brighton look a far better coached team than Ten Hag's United. And yet they made a profit on transfers this season, lost a key player in the January transfer window, play teenagers.

So did Potters Brighton.

 

[justsomebloke]

The notion that a change of manager at this point would be anything other than bonkers is bonkers.

 

[AlPistacho]

I think the question should be beyond player signings etc what can ETH learn from and improve. I know he’s not a young manager but in regards to management at the top level he’s had less than a decade.

For me everything is hindsight. If we won the Europa Cup, then no one would criticise him not resting players. But now we can’t and have injuries it’s easy to say “he should have rotated”

Really the only obvious one is Waghorse, but again that’s on the board and ETH doesn’t play him as much recently. So it’s arguable that starting him Vs WH was rotation. Garnacho is coming back from a long lay off etc.

So when you think about it. Most of his mistakes he actually puts right. Waghorse doesn’t start as regularly, he rotates more to prevent injuries.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Enrique.

 

[Mercurial]

Think he has done decent for his stay so far. He had lot of squad turmoil in Ronaldo. Lost two matches at the get go wich are forgivable given new league, then dropped points to top contenders, and now we are out of gas with sidelined starters on a thin squad.

The man is doing good so far. We need to clutch and grab that FA and a 4th and look ahead to some well needed in/out transfers.

 

[CG1010]

Can I not doubt or criticize a manager without wanting a new one? He’s done extremely well but there’s a few things we can criticize.

should persist for now

This. ETH's stock has gone down rapidly in the last few months in my eyes. Definitely not the sure shot thing people were feeling earlier. Doesn't mean I want him sacked or have a name on who should replace him. Anyways our issues go much deeper than just the manager, as last 10 years have proven.