2 Finals in his first season & in the top 4 - apparently he hasnt done much better. Some people just complain after complain.
Those doubting ETH - what is your contingency plan?
- Thread starter Bastian
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He’s not going anywhere and shouldn’t.
The decision to buy him was Ten Hag's, but that was his wish list last spring and had we bought him in June he would have cost around 50 mil, if not less, but instead United wasted their entire summer chasing someone who didn't want to come, and for some reason United don't have the ability to work on two transfers at a time.
The fact he cost what he cost is all on Mutough and Arnold.
You backed Ole until the bitter end, did you not?
Just as ETH has no plan B, I have no contingency plan either, just grind our teeth and bear it.
I lie. ETH does have a plan B. Sadly, it's called Weghorst.
I lie. ETH does have a plan B. Sadly, it's called Weghorst.
I back all managers.
This is not entirely true. Against West Ham we started 5 new players (Antony, Casemiro, Wout, Eriksen, Malacia).
But anyway, what you are saying is that ETH is no better than Ole when managing these players. Did I get this right?
Honestly wouldn't even take pep, arteta or klopp over ETH and I wanted ole out even before they gave him the contract. It still amazes me when people say they can't see a difference. To me, we have a clear style of play, we dominate teams and it's clear we don't have a goal scorer and a goal keeper. We also need cover in the midfield.
Every time Ten hag has had a better option off the bench, he has used them...when there was varane, he didn't hesitate to drop Maguire. When casemiro was available he dropped Mctominay. He hasn't hesitated to play eriksen over Fred. I strongly believe de gea only plays becoz Henderson is out on loan. Weghorst and martial only plays becoz GW is not available for selection. It's obvious we have no other option to play.
I don't think that any of the other top managers in the world including pep or klopp would do better in their first season given these players. I actually think they would do worse
Every time Ten hag has had a better option off the bench, he has used them...when there was varane, he didn't hesitate to drop Maguire. When casemiro was available he dropped Mctominay. He hasn't hesitated to play eriksen over Fred. I strongly believe de gea only plays becoz Henderson is out on loan. Weghorst and martial only plays becoz GW is not available for selection. It's obvious we have no other option to play.
I don't think that any of the other top managers in the world including pep or klopp would do better in their first season given these players. I actually think they would do worse
I don’t think he should be under immense pressure at this very moment. He is already shown there is a lot of room for growth and this will make for dangerous combo if we allow for development.
Second half of season 2 is the time for pressure. We can still criticise him from day one because it’s our club and it doesn’t mean we are right in our opinion.
I think I made that post with the expectation that we'd miss out on top 4, then his position would be very precarious. Assumed that were the case by the OP's question, because top 4 + a trophy is pretty fecking good despite the wobbly finish.
How about now?
Stopped reading at 'I wouldn't take Pep'
Pep is arguably top 4/5 managers of all time. These statements are absolutely stupid. He's a million miles the coach ETH is.
Not that he'd ever join us of course given his ties to City but you'd have to be a simpleton to prefer ETH over Pep Guardiola.
I didn’t dodge the question but essentially wrote what the club and the fans have been doing for the last 4 managers (and I strongly suspect this will go the same way).
Random manager hirings and bad recruiting by the club, followed by prolonging the inevitable.
Cult of manager by the fans, praising him and calling a miracle worker, a genius and praising his signings to delusional level, calling to give him time and make new signings, and when that fail somehow creating the narrative that the manager might not win big titles but is building a strong team for the next one, followed by immediately calling the same players deadwood and bottlers when the manager is changed.
I don’t know if ten Hag is the right manager or not, although I strongly suspect not and I haven’t seen anything by him at United to believe that he is that good. I also think that we are screwed either way as long as we refuse to create a strong and competent football structure that oversees the football part of the club. So for what is worth, even though I don’t think that Sun doesn’t come out of ten Hag’s arse, I think that some successor of him would face the same challenges and likely similarly fail.
Saying that I think that there are a couple better managers than ten Hag available (Ancelotti probably in the summer, Zidane and Luis Enrique) and a couple around the same level if not better (Nagelsman and Pochettino). But I do not think doing this change would come with much success (Ancelotti would be the safest bet).
Except some unforeseen catastrophe, Pep will go as the greatest manager in history.
Not taking him cause EtH would be as stupid as not taking peak Messi for Antony.
We have a lot of this type of thing on this forum sadly.
A trophy is always a good season. We will make top 4 this season being wobbly is part of growing up. I agreed.
Just don’t want him to lose the manager we signed in year one.
No one said pep isn't top 4 or 5 all time managers. Pep just isn't the right fit for manutd. Why? So far, He is only successful only when his club spends a lot in the transfer windows to bring the right players and has an amazing structure behind the scenes. Under those circumstances Pep is a great fit.
The reality is, as of today united are not any of those things. We can't spend freely and furthermore we struggle to bring in the right players. Lastly, we definitely don't have the right structures. We need a coach like ten hag who can make do with what he has got. We have never seen Pep work in those circumstances and be successful. Even Bayern which is better than manutd but had transfer limits, he struggled to do anything in the CL. Basically Pep can't fit in the manutd structure as it exists today
Uhmm it would not. You have to understand that the player or the manager fitting into the system matters and is a big determinant of success. Peak messi can not singlehandedly win the premier league with a lousy Sunderland or stoke city team. Peak Pep cant do much in a club that will not move heaven and earth to sign the right players for his ideas. Pep is only successful in the right system and so is messi.
Rooney, Giggs and Mike's Shorts
Get Fellani back to replace Weghorst
But seriously ETH needs next season before judgement.
Get Fellani back to replace Weghorst
But seriously ETH needs next season before judgement.
There is absolutely not a single part of the game where EtH is on the same level as Pep. His only trophies actually came at a league where he had a far bigger advantage (both money wise and structure wise) to the second best team than Pep. Just cause Pep didn’t decide to play football manager and start from Sunderland to win UCL doesn’t mean that he wouldn’t be better than ten Hag in practically ever club.
Man United has also outspent Man City during the time Pep has been at City. Ten Hag also net spent 200m more pounds than Pep last summer, so this isn’t poor ten Hag vs rich Pep story.
Well until we see Pep go to a team like ajax or go ahead eagles and work in the same conditions we can't say he is better. While ten hag had a big budget by eredevise standards, it was very tiny in champions league standards. He has worked as the underdog and shown he can compete in those conditions. Pep has never been the underdog. Until he has, ten hag remains a better fit. Your whole argument still assumes things happen in a vacuum. Manutd spending more than Pep is not useful becoz we spent a big bulk of it on the wrong players. Furthermore the work needed to transform mancity into what they are today is much less than what ten hag has to do. Long story short, we have never seen Pep work and deliver exceptional results in a dysfunctional environment like manutd. Until then, he just isn't the right fit
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I think that is a totally stupid criteria of making things up.
But by the same logic, I’ll humour you and make up a random criteria: Pep won the third league of Spain (well the regional one of Catalunya) getting promoted to the second one. Until ten Hag goes and wins a third league somewhere, Pep is better.
Again you keep missing the point. Nobody is debating who is better between Pep and Ten Hag. Pep is better. The question is who is the better fit for the current manutd. Thats it, that's the only question here. Given their coaching histories, Ten Hag is a better fit. Better fit doesn't mean better manager...it just means better fit
Shockingly he prefers to play the players he signed over most of the dross that he's been lumbered with. That should tell you what he thinks of the players that were here already.
Look at his options off the bench. There's only so much he can do when he's got Fred, Dalot, Maguire, Sancho, Martial, Williams etc as his go to options on the bench. Seriously, I'd nearly rather he not make any subs than look at any of that lot get anymore game time in a Utd shirt.
What I am saying is, that he's not done much better than Ole because he's having to back and rely on the same core group of players who serve up nothing but disappointment time and time again for the last few years. Until he's allowed to replace most of the players he inherited, we'll be saying the same things over and over again.
By the time Klopp got to a CL final 3 years after he took over he had Milner still in the team from his first game. Fairly sure Pep did similar, might have only had Aguero, Kompany, David Silva and KDB is his team after a year or 2, and he wasted no time getting rid of Aguero when he lost his usefulness.
I think that Erik is a good manager (not without flaws) and he is our best option. I can't wait next season under him because all is set for nice attacking football and title challenge.
But why we tend to make multiple threads about defending manager?
Manager of Man Utd must have results. Period. Cut that crap about "lets give him xy transfer windows" and shit.
This year, even if he finishes 5th, i would give him one more year. Next year, he must challenge for PL. If not, move to another manager and to another and to another.
Because......all big clubs do that. Our way (giving manager "free time") is wrong.
But why we tend to make multiple threads about defending manager?
Manager of Man Utd must have results. Period. Cut that crap about "lets give him xy transfer windows" and shit.
This year, even if he finishes 5th, i would give him one more year. Next year, he must challenge for PL. If not, move to another manager and to another and to another.
Because......all big clubs do that. Our way (giving manager "free time") is wrong.
But there is nothing to suggest that he is better for Man United. Pep has managed three top clubs and was successful in all of them, EtH has not. Before United, the only time he was in a top club (by modern standards not history) is when he was Pep’s assistant.
For all Pep outspending others, that’s what EtH did at Ajax to an even greater degree.
In any case, it is an academic debate. We won’t get Pep, sadly we should have done so in 2013 but we went for Moyes using a similar logic.
There is everything to suggest this if you look closely. ETH did not find a top team at Manutd. Manutd has not been a top club for 10 years plus. Pep has never managed a team in a dysfunctional state like Manutd. Let's be brutally honest, manutd has been in a bad state for a decade now...that is the reality on the ground. Maybe Pep can succeed in such conditions, but nothing in his history shows he can. Ten Hag has such experiences in his history which makes him a better fit
Spoilt brats. First season, the guy has done a great job getting us to this position, improved a bunch of under performing players and a few blunders, you want him gone already. You're as good as your last success indeed.
We have no depth , no striker, first choice CB pairing out injured. When we had the CB pairing of choice we were still in contention for 3/4 trophies. Heck arsenal shit the bed with just 1 CB out.
Give ETH all the time and more importantly the players he needs for his system. Unfortunately we almost always screw up our TW after getting a CL spot
Give ETH all the time and more importantly the players he needs for his system. Unfortunately we almost always screw up our TW after getting a CL spot
Thank God the majority around here have some sanity.
Great timing
Even second half they played some cracking stuff and would have got something out of it, if not for Pickford. As an aside, we should be all over Evan Ferguson.So Brighton whilst only playing one game a week, lost against us in the Semi Final, lost their next game against Forest, where they had to rest players because it took so much of a toll (against us), won big against Wolves, narrowly beat us by a last min pen in the league and then lost 1-5 at home.
And some people think a manager like De Zerbi (who seems very talented) would come into the mess at Utd, play twice a week against teams that play like it's their final and turn us around without any issue?
If someone like that is finding that much of a struggle, then it tells you all you need about the job ETH is doing, which imo is well above par and depending on how we finish the season, could be very good.
And some people think a manager like De Zerbi (who seems very talented) would come into the mess at Utd, play twice a week against teams that play like it's their final and turn us around without any issue?
If someone like that is finding that much of a struggle, then it tells you all you need about the job ETH is doing, which imo is well above par and depending on how we finish the season, could be very good.
Biggest complaint is to prioritize the league and Europa league only. The youngsters and squad should have been rotated for caraboa and FA Cup… we look completely tired. We can’t play a full game. Mcfred surrounded by youngsters should have been those cup games
Was there a poll? Or did you just make that up?
A handful of noisy posters picked on individual coaches for criticism, but they were shouted down by lots of people who pointed out that we had no idea who was responsible for what. McKenna in particular had a lot of defenders who kept reiterating the fact that he came to United with an excellent reputation and was absolutely not a “jobs for the boys” appointment.
Frankenstein Lampardio
Wait, you want to get rid of Shaw?? He's a contender for our player of the year imho. We've got enough crappy players that we need to replace without ditching the ones who are actually good and coming into the prime of their careers!
When the team starts playing lethargic (can’t finish a half) and the over all play decreases strongly, and the manager don’t rotate for cup games, and the manager isn’t using youngsters for fresh legs, it’s okay to have pressure on him. Even substitutions have been questioned.
He understands it’s a big job, he’s smart and will adjust
Can I not doubt or criticize a manager without wanting a new one? He’s done extremely well but there’s a few things we can criticize.
should persist for now
should persist for now
Yes. You are correct. We don't value what he's done or where we've came from.