Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

JoaquinJoaquin said:
Only just started getting back into Wrestling lately as I was a huge fan from Hogan \ Warrior era all the way to WCW \ ECW and up until about 5 years ago, Then kind of lost interest as I didn't like the WWE roster at the time and the whole PG rating change thing. So can someone answer me a few questions?

- Does Chris Jericho still wrestle, If so why is he nowhere near the World Title?
- Why is ROH so highly regarded?
- With TNA why has it gone so bad, was it all just bad booking or inside stuff?
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1 - He mainly tours with Fozzy and does other projects but he is a massive WWE guy and pops up every now and again.

2- Because the matches are generally superb, the only thing lacking is the production values and that is hopefully going to improve with their new TV deal.

3- TNA was good? no seriously, they spent too much time trying to compete with the WWE instead of focusing on their own product, they made the same errors that WCW made and Dixie Carter is generally clueless.

Also, watch NXT it's arguably the best thing in the wrestling world today, hence the thread name change.
 
phelans shorts said:
Not a clue, my guess would be him dropping to Finn on the next Takeover but who knows.
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But that falls into main roster losing to NXT, depends on how main roster they make him I suppose. Itd be a cop out, but Regal stripping him would fit the characters.
 
Big-Red said:
But that falls into main roster losing to NXT, depends on how main roster they make him I suppose. Itd be a cop out, but Regal stripping him would fit the characters.
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He beat normal Finn last time, having Demon Finn beat him will make Finn look totally badass. Owens would argue profusely against being stripped in character (the belt = more money = better life). Unless Kev has a bigger prize.

They are trying really hard to elevate NXT, so main roster folk losing every so often down there isn't much of a problem IMO. They might even have Joe beat Kev and Joe just to put over Finn, a bit like that time Taz beat Mike Awesome.
 
Rolandofgilead said:
Winning the US title and then dropping the NXT one is a possibility?
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It's a possibility sure, but it's not one that works for that character in canon IMO. Winning titles means more money means a better life for his family, surely he'd be furious at having to give up the gold and do all he could to keep both?

Rolandofgilead said:
Holt shit i've just seen Owens promo on smackdown, so good!
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They're just letting Kev be Kev and since he's so different from the WWE cookie cutter he looks so great for it. Even on his rare off days he comes across great.

On Kev, everyone should listen to him on Jericho's podcast before Elimination Chamber, the interview starts at 18 minutes and is incredible.
 
Zarlak said:
I find the notion of a newbie beating a legend or the number one in the business to be utterly ridiculous. These should be big draws for those who have earned it. They're way further down your career exhibitions.
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Slightly different but the Shield ran through the entire roster when they debuted. In the tag matches it was always clean victories as well, and look how well they turned out.
 
gormless said:
Slightly different but the Shield ran through the entire roster when they debuted. In the tag matches it was always clean victories as well, and look how well they turned out.
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Triple power bombing someone 3 on 1 is slightly different.

We're talking about people beating Cena. Everyone wanted Sandow to beat Cena, everyone wanted Bray to beat Cena and now Owens should beat Cena. The theme is everyone wants Cena to lose to whatever rookie they bring up.

They tried that with Curtis Axel, and :lol:.
 
Zarlak said:
Triple power bombing someone 3 on 1 is slightly different.

We're talking about people beating Cena. Everyone wanted Sandow to beat Cena, everyone wanted Bray to beat Cena and now Owens should beat Cena. The theme is everyone wants Cena to lose to whatever rookie they bring up.

They tried that with Curtis Axel, and :lol:.
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They beat all the top guys in 3 on 3 matches (except Punk, who beat them 3 on 1).

Axel didn't beat Cena, except on results cards. No one could watch them matches and think Axel beat him.

In general Cena should go over these guys, BUT there are exceptions. Hell, just having these guys get their one win on a feud on the biggest stage of them is an improvement.

You don't make new stars by having the old ones repeatedly go over the young guys. It's why the streak had to end. It's how you keep moving forward, by making clear the next group are better than the last. It is completely irrelevant whether it's true or not, it's all about perception, and it's why the reliance on old stars on big shows in recent years is disastrous long term. You pop one cheap rating and then… nothing. There's nothing to draw new fans in for the rest of the year because you've told them that the Undertaker, at 50 (allegedly), who looks like a fecking sun dried cherry tomato with a terrible Mohawk is better than Bray Wyatt, who you will then try to build shows around for the rest of the year, then wonder why no one is watching!

Aside from that rant, Cena is a bit different because he still has plenty left in the tank, but there's no reason that he can't lie down for a Wyatt or a Rusev at Wrestlemania and get his win back with less casual eyes on it.
 
phelans shorts said:
They beat all the top guys in 3 on 3 matches (except Punk, who beat them 3 on 1).

Axel didn't beat Cena, except on results cards. No one could watch them matches and think Axel beat him.

In general Cena should go over these guys, BUT there are exceptions. Hell, just having these guys get their one win on a feud on the biggest stage of them is an improvement.

You don't make new stars by having the old ones repeatedly go over the young guys. It's why the streak had to end. It's how you keep moving forward, by making clear the next group are better than the last. It is completely irrelevant whether it's true or not, it's all about perception, and it's why the reliance on old stars on big shows in recent years is disastrous long term. You pop one cheap rating and then… nothing. There's nothing to draw new fans in for the rest of the year because you've told them that the Undertaker, at 50 (allegedly), who looks like a fecking sun dried cherry tomato with a terrible Mohawk is better than Bray Wyatt, who you will then try to build shows around for the rest of the year, then wonder why no one is watching!

Aside from that rant, Cena is a bit different because he still has plenty left in the tank, but there's no reason that he can't lie down for a Wyatt or a Rusev at Wrestlemania and get his win back with less casual eyes on it.
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Yeah, but the point is everybody always wants everybody to beat Cena because apparently you have to beat the number one guy in the business to not 'have your momentum taken away from you'.

You don't need to go over the top guys to be made. Losing matches doesn't break you. Being a great wrestler and winning the fans over makes you. Look at Neville. People have this obsession with W/L.
 
Zarlak said:
Yeah, but the point is everybody always wants everybody to beat Cena because apparently you have to beat the number one guy in the business to not 'have your momentum taken away from you'.

You don't need to go over the top guys to be made. Losing matches doesn't break you. Being a great wrestler and winning the fans over makes you. Look at Neville. People have this obsession with W/L.
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Wins and losses are very important though, just look at that mire of a midcard and you can see that. No one goes over anyone else and they all look like total geeks, despite being (for the most part) super talented. Barrett is the prime example, there is no reason that he shouldn't be main eventing. He has it all. However, he loses so often to total dweebs like Ziggler that it's impossible to take him seriously.
 
phelans shorts said:
Wins and losses are very important though, just look at that mire of a midcard and you can see that. No one goes over anyone else and they all look like total geeks, despite being (for the most part) super talented. Barrett is the prime example, there is no reason that he shouldn't be main eventing. He has it all. However, he loses so often to total dweebs like Ziggler that it's impossible to take him seriously.
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Do you enjoy his in-ring stuff? He bores me, but I could be in the minority with that.
 
ZDwyr said:
Do you enjoy his in-ring stuff? He bores me, but I could be in the minority with that.
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I do a lot, I'm a fan of the hard hitting stuff especially from guys who are stiff with it, Barrett and Sheamus are right up my street in ring. Especially against each other, them two against each other is superb every time.
 
phelans shorts said:
I do a lot, I'm a fan of the hard hitting stuff especially from guys who are stiff with it, Barrett and Sheamus are right up my street in ring. Especially against each other, them two against each other is superb every time.
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Fair enough. Suspect we have different tastes as I am not a huge Sheamus fan at all :lol:. I rate Barrett highly aside from his in-ring stuff, I think he should be at least main-eventing occasionally.
 
Wins and losses dont matter once youre made, when youre building somebody up, its important how you do it though. You dont have to beat Cena to become a star, but WWE have positioned him wheres hes pretty much the only star thus everybody goes through him.

Edge, RVD, Punk, Barrett (nexus), Bray, Rusev, Sandow and now Owens. Their first big moments all pretty much came against Cena. Some won and the rest who lost had their momentum killed and havent been the same (not even close to the main event tbh). Owens losing clean to Cena at Chamber will be a huge mistake, of course wins and losses matter.
 
Sylar said:
Wins and losses dont matter once youre made, when youre building somebody up, its important how you do it though. You dont have to beat Cena to become a star, but WWE have positioned him wheres hes pretty much the only star thus everybody goes through him.

Edge, RVD, Punk, Barrett (nexus), Bray, Rusev, Sandow and now Owens. Their first big moments all pretty much came against Cena. Some won and the rest who lost had their momentum killed and havent been the same (not even close to the main event tbh). Owens losing clean to Cena at Chamber will be a huge mistake, of course wins and losses matter.
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Punks first big moment was John Morrison, which he lost, then December to Dismember, where he got annihilated, then Undertaker, which he lost, then Rey, which he lost, THEN Cena, although I feel I'm missing a tonne of big moments.

That's ignoring his cash in against Edge and his biggest feud arguably ever against Jeff Hardy.

That's just one guy, RVD had tonnes pre-Cena (his biggest loss was arguably the Ohio police)
 
Cena should be putting people over. He has basically killed Wyatt and Rusev. Wyatt was fantastic there for a while. Now he is a mid-carder. They have a great opportunity to build Owens into a monster but they'll make a balls of it.
 
phelans shorts said:
Punks first big moment was John Morrison, which he lost, then December to Dismember, where he got annihilated, then Undertaker, which he lost, then Rey, which he lost, THEN Cena, although I feel I'm missing a tonne of big moments.

That's ignoring his cash in against Edge and his biggest feud arguably ever against Jeff Hardy.

That's just one guy, RVD had tonnes pre-Cena (his biggest loss was arguably the Ohio police)
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Cant count Punks ECW moments nor his world title runs on SD. His cash in on Edge ill say though was his first big moment. Ill agree to that. The Cena one took him to another level though and he really need to win that which he did. However they killed his momentum with the HHH loss which made no sense at all.

Actually yeah, RVDs big moment initially should have been beating HHH for the title which didnt happen.

Regardless, point stands, wins and losses do matter when being built up and can affect your position and how youre accepted to majority of fans.
 
So, I was flicking channels last night and happened upon big Kev's Smackdown segment, and now I'm pretty sure how tonight is going to go.

Kev gets DQ'd against Cena, then comes back in the main event to take out Ambrose. Which would be one hell of a way to carry on his first electric start on the main roster tbh.

Aside from Kev and the tag match nothing on this show holds any interest to me at all. Hopefully Ambrose can get that monkey off his back of all of his matches being massive disappointments, and hopefully Bray can show something in the Chamber but I'm losing all will with him, he needs to disappear and be a part time TV character desperately.
 
phelans shorts said:
So, I was flicking channels last night and happened upon big Kev's Smackdown segment, and now I'm pretty sure how tonight is going to go.

Kev gets DQ'd against Cena, then comes back in the main event to take out Ambrose. Which would be one hell of a way to carry on his first electric start on the main roster tbh.

Aside from Kev and the tag match nothing on this show holds any interest to me at all. Hopefully Ambrose can get that monkey off his back of all of his matches being massive disappointments, and hopefully Bray can show something in the Chamber but I'm losing all will with him, he needs to disappear and be a part time TV character desperately.
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That would be immense, i am really looking forward to this tonight. You going to be with us for the night?
 
phelans shorts said:
So, I was flicking channels last night and happened upon big Kev's Smackdown segment, and now I'm pretty sure how tonight is going to go.

Kev gets DQ'd against Cena, then comes back in the main event to take out Ambrose. Which would be one hell of a way to carry on his first electric start on the main roster tbh.

Aside from Kev and the tag match nothing on this show holds any interest to me at all. Hopefully Ambrose can get that monkey off his back of all of his matches being massive disappointments, and hopefully Bray can show something in the Chamber but I'm losing all will with him, he needs to disappear and be a part time TV character desperately.
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I full agree with your spoiler /speculation especially given the way Ambrose walked out on SD and and just kept on walking.

Part of me is wondering whether they will do more NXT crossovers with the main roster (eg Joe mentioned knowing Cena, thus having him appear to stop a Owens beatdown on Cena - especially as this is the first true Network exclusive PPV would be a good incentive for the whole "anything can happen" element)

The IC title match doesnt interest me much given the participants. Really looking at its, its quite lame. The tag title match however does interest me
 
I want to see Owens destroy Cena tonight, I think Cena will win due to a DQ or something but Owens is taking that U.S. Belt in the coming weeks.
 
Chamber pre-show started.

All three members of New Day allowed to compete. lol
 
Castia said:
I want to see Owens destroy Cena tonight, I think Cena will win due to a DQ or something but Owens is taking that U.S. Belt in the coming weeks.
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That would cause an uproar because of the way he has stamped on it a couple of times. It would make a good storyline, but I think he's the perfect guy for the reintroduction of the Hardcore belt.
 
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