Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

Randall Flagg said:
Without watching or knowing what was going on, perhaps they should have had Reigns eliminating Bryan in the final 2
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The idea was that getting him out early would cause the anger to die down before the end. Unfortunately Philly is Philly.



FWIW Raw may not be on tonight, the area has been declared a no-travel zone. Also possible it'll be an empty (or nearly empty) arena show.
 
phelans shorts said:
"THEY NEED TO MAKE NEW STARS!!!"

"NO NOT THAT GUY"

SMDH. People are so predictable.
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You have completely missed the point.

We all want the WWE to make new stars, but Reigns winning the Rumble shows just how out of touch they are with the fans. He is average on the mic, possesses no charisma, and hasn't properly connected with the crowd. They knew themselves that Reigns wouldn't get a big reaction last night, hence The Rock had to come out in a pathetic attempt to try and make us all happy.

Even worse, Bryan/Amrbose/Ziggler were eliminated like jobbers. They were sacrificial lambs to try and force us to cheer for Reigns when he eliminates Big Show and Kane. We're not stupid.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Having a already made star beat the man who defected the streak would've been an insult to The Undertaker. That is why I'm glad they are building a star in Roman Reigns (the only one left who Cena hasn't buried)
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Thats a great point, but personally, i don't think Lesnar should have been the one to end the streak in the first place. I'd have loved for it to be someone like Bray Wyatt to end the streak. Sure, it made sense for Lesnar to beat Taker, with Lesnar being portrayed as a beast, with legitimate MMA training etc, but if someone like Wyatt had beaten him, that would have propelled him to mega heel in moments. I just saw no point in having a part time, already made wrestler beating Taker when an up and comer could have done it.

Having Roman Reigns beat Lesnar clean at Mania when Taker, Cena, Rollins etc couldn't do it would definitely propel him to a new level, but would the fans actually care? Thats the problem. They'd have to build Reigns up between now and Mania to a point where fans could actually believe he can do it. In the end they'll most likely have him win with massive outside interference from The Rock and a couple of others tho i bet.
 
It's pretty mind boggling that there is a large amount of people who are condemning people booing. They are paying for something and not getting what they want, why shouldn't they boo? 'stop being cry babies and get over it' is a ridiculous statement to make considering how much money people pay to watch it.
 
Brownie85 said:
Thats a great point, but personally, i don't think Lesnar should have been the one to end the streak in the first place. I'd have loved for it to be someone like Bray Wyatt to end the streak. Sure, it made sense for Lesnar to beat Taker, with Lesnar being portrayed as a beast, with legitimate MMA training etc, but if someone like Wyatt had beaten him, that would have propelled him to mega heel in moments. I just saw no point in having a part time, already made wrestler beating Taker when an up and comer could have done it.

Having Roman Reigns beat Lesnar clean at Mania when Taker, Cena, Rollins etc couldn't do it would definitely propel him to a new level, but would the fans actually care? Thats the problem. They'd have to build Reigns up between now and Mania to a point where fans could actually believe he can do it. In the end they'll most likely have him win with massive outside interference from The Rock and a couple of others tho i bet.
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They've already decided they don't care so nothing the WWE does from here on in will make any difference.
 
On a positive note, Bray Wyatt was excellent last night. He looked legitimately strong and it's been a long time since you could say that about him. When the fans sing with him, it feels organic and nothing is forced with him. People want to invest in him because they can see his talent, as opposed to Reigns who isn't quite ready and that's not all his fault.
 
akash02 said:
Watching it again, basically the crowd collectively threw their toys out after Bryan went out.

In hindsight, they should have had Bryan eliminated a lot later than he was to prevent people from getting their knickers in a twist. And besides, Bryan vs Lesnar just does not compute. It's hard to even imagine it.
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The fans have every right to do that though. It was a ridiculous decision. Look at the way Bryan was eliminated. You simply don't make that type of mistake in a big match like that. They should have kept him until the end so that the crowd remained active.

My reasoning for not wanting Reigns to win is very simple: he's not a worthy winner. Will he ever be someone I support? In his current state, absolutely not. I think everyone knew he was going to win, but I just needed confirmation that WWE was this naive. There's a reason why this is named "The NXT Thread".
 
I still dont get how they thought it was a good idea to have Cena run through Bray like they did (and then Jericho to beat Bray). Killed his momentum. Given the way that Rowan (and Harper to a lesser extent) have been booked, having the three reunite would have been quite.

I dont mind Reigns and think he will be a star if they dont rush it and force it. He has the tools to be the less is more on talking for now but a true smashmouth guy when fighting. However they are killing his fan support which is nuts.

Bringing Bryan back for the Rumble to have him eliminated the way they did just makes no sense at all. They could have waited until after the Rumble for him to come out (especially with all the concern about whether Bryan would wrestle again). They should have saved him for tonights Raw to give that will he / wont he speech about retiring. Once they did that before the Rumble, they pretty much killed Reigns.

Also some people are acting like it was a spoilt crowd and its a one off yesterday. This isnt the first time its happened and its not going to be the last if WWE keep doing this.
 
Its going to be a strange night tonight.
Raw might not go ahead or it will but not have fans? Or somehow it will and it will be weird lol.

Also with Bubba Ray back, im assuming Ascension start ripping on him and Dvon makes the save :)
 
@paceme Looks like Full time as in probably one last run before becoming an agent.

I was thinking, after Rollins performance last night (and losing) they got a good chance to do a double switch here.
Have Authority question Rollins for losing again and plant the seeds already.
If Brock is leaving after WM, have Reigns become the new heel eventually (with Authority approval and Heyman backing as his manager). Brocks going into WM as a face against Reigns. Reigns can then win the title. Meanwhile after his career performance yesterday, have Rollins vs Orton at WM and rollins wins it with Orton shaking his hand to give his approval. Rollins can eventually be the face that he should be and can be (his moveset, the liking from the hardcore fans and improvement on the mic now).

Rollins meanwhile still has the briefcase to use to go against Authority / Reigns to scare them. Reigns is now the approved face for the Authority as he got the job done. Reigns also now has the likes of Ziggler, Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose, Orton, Cena to have good matches with (and possibly Heyman to do his talking).

Rollins / Reigns double switch.
 
paceme said:
Is bubba Ray actually back full time?
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I kind of hope not. No way are WWE going to want to push him as a singles guy, and they'll hate the idea of him doing the heel gimmick that he did in TNA, because TNA did it first.
 
Sylar said:
@paceme Looks like Full time as in probably one last run before becoming an agent.

I was thinking, after Rollins performance last night (and losing) they got a good chance to do a double switch here.
Have Authority question Rollins for losing again and plant the seeds already.
If Brock is leaving after WM, have Reigns become the new heel eventually (with Authority approval and Heyman backing as his manager). Brocks going into WM as a face against Reigns. Reigns can then win the title. Meanwhile after his career performance yesterday, have Rollins vs Orton at WM and rollins wins it with Orton shaking his hand to give his approval. Rollins can eventually be the face that he should be and can be (his moveset, the liking from the hardcore fans and improvement on the mic now).

Rollins meanwhile still has the briefcase to use to go against Authority / Reigns to scare them. Reigns is now the approved face for the Authority as he got the job done. Reigns also now has the likes of Ziggler, Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose, Orton, Cena to have good matches with (and possibly Heyman to do his talking).

Rollins / Reigns double switch.
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Money. Money. Money. I agree with your idea on a pure level of interest, but when you look at merchandising, kids are buying Reigns products almost the way they're buying Cena one's. Turning Reigns heel, however interesting, cuts that prospect of merchandise to the kids. PG product needs PG hero's as much as Attitude era needed anti-hero. That doesn't mean Rollins couldn't turn face down the line, he has to. He's the closest to HBK we've had. It's inevitable, but Reigns won't be turned heel. For all the adults that would prefer him as heel, there's too much financially resting on him as a commercial product to children. PG product demands that.
 
Hearing Raw has been cancelled because of the weather...first time in 20+ years? Unless they go empty arena? They may have got lucky, the backlash may have calmed down by next week.
 
Tonight's WWE RAW taping from the XL Center in Hartford, Connecticut has been cancelled due to Winter Storm Juno.

We've received word that WWE's crew is currently packing up the production trucks and there will no live event tonight.

WWE is still expected to broadcast an episode of RAW tonight, but there's no word yet on what will air.

An official announcement is expected shortly.

Tuesday's SmackDown tapings from Boston are also in jeopardy.
 
Vince sat there for 3 hours sayin "feck you, you'll like who I tell you to like" in 255 different languages and dialects.

Actually screw that just show the Royal Rumble again, that's sure to piss people off.
 
Vince's call :-

(Somewhere in Connecticut)

HHH - "Vince, they're pissed off. How we approaching this?"
Vince - "Take it off air tonight. That'll teach the whiny smark cnuts"
HHH - "A week of no RAW and they'll come running back to mediocrity".
Vince - "....and love it, too. Now, about Bryan.... I've got an idea for a fued with him and Slater Gator"
 
I've just seen Bryan's elimination again...what the utter feck? Seriously?
 
Haha, that will be interesting to see what happens.
They should do a Roman Reigns career perspective so far.

Hoof The Ball said:
Money. Money. Money. I agree with your idea on a pure level of interest, but when you look at merchandising, kids are buying Reigns products almost the way they're buying Cena one's. Turning Reigns heel, however interesting, cuts that prospect of merchandise to the kids. PG product needs PG hero's as much as Attitude era needed anti-hero. That doesn't mean Rollins couldn't turn face down the line, he has to. He's the closest to HBK we've had. It's inevitable, but Reigns won't be turned heel. For all the adults that would prefer him as heel, there's too much financially resting on him as a commercial product to children. PG product demands that.
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I get that but how much is Reigns actually selling? What are the numbers?
Last time I checked (a year or two ago) I saw CM Punk was outselling Cena on merchandise then they turned him heel didnt they?
 
God finally gets his win back over Vince McMahon by cancelling Raw.
 
Sylar said:
God finally gets his win back over Vince McMahon by cancelling Raw.
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I actually think they may have dodged a bullet. At least Cole can't be like "The longest running weekly episodic television show" anymore if nothing whatsoever airs.
 
So Rumble and Mania are just about the only 2 wrestling shows I watch whole year ..and..I can't believe they botched Rumble again...

It actually seemed like they had a good story going this year-

Wyatt's early domination
Bryan bring energy into the match and being someone crowd would root for
Rusev and Wyatt's deal
Big show and Kane working together

It all fell apart after the Bryan elimination and not just because the crowd shat on it.
- Reigns never got to do much and had no impact before the win.
- They sidelined Rusev and Wyatt for Show-Kane.
- Too many men in the ring prior to Show entering
- Wyatt getting a weak exit
- Botching Rusev's hide trick
- The Rock intervention .. what?

It was not that hard to have a good rumble match- The final 4 should have been

Bryan, Reigns, Rusev and Wyatt. The first 2 work together to beat the latter. Then you have a a good show down between then.

Then after when Reigns win, I don't think the crowd would have shat on it at all. It would have capped off a very good rumble for them.

As it is the manner of Bryan's exit made no sense what so ever. They might as well just release him. If it is a work for a story then you don't ruin one of your biggest events in an year for a work.
 
Sylar said:
Haha, that will be interesting to see what happens.
They should do a Roman Reigns career perspective so far.



I get that but how much is Reigns actually selling? What are the numbers?
Last time I checked (a year or two ago) I saw CM Punk was outselling Cena on merchandise then they turned him heel didnt they?
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I read it somewhere, I'll try and find it again. There is, of course, more than just shirt sales. For eg. Punk was selling massive quantities of shirts, like you mentioned, but his house show and PPV buys weren't excellent. I suppose, the sum total of his commercial performance was deemed just "ok"
 
Duffy said:
I actually think they may have dodged a bullet. At least Cole can't be like "The longest running weekly episodic television show" anymore if nothing whatsoever airs.
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If they show something and call it Monday Night Raw even if its not live, it still counts, right?
 
MoneyMay said:
The fans have every right to do that though. It was a ridiculous decision. Look at the way Bryan was eliminated. You simply don't make that type of mistake in a big match like that. They should have kept him until the end so that the crowd remained active.

My reasoning for not wanting Reigns to win is very simple: he's not a worthy winner. Will he ever be someone I support? In his current state, absolutely not. I think everyone knew he was going to win, but I just needed confirmation that WWE was this naive. There's a reason why this is named "The NXT Thread".
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Right to do it? Sure but that doesn't make it any less stupider. Cry all you want about Bryan getting eliminated (and I agree that could have been handled better) but there was no need to boo Reigns after that. As it is, Bryan is not in the main event picture (Rightly so. The idea of him beating Brock is bordering ridiculous) and the guy who is in it will spend his time getting booed no matter what WWE do try and build him up because the oh so knowledgeable wrestling fans have already made their bloody minds up about him. Oh well.
 
akash02 said:
Right to do it? Sure but that doesn't make it any less stupider. Cry all you want about Bryan getting eliminated (and I agree that could have been handled better) but there was no need to boo Reigns after that. As it is, Bryan is not in the main event picture (Rightly so. The idea of him beating Brock is bordering ridiculous) and the guy who is in it will spend his time getting booed no matter what WWE do try and build him up because the oh so knowledgeable wrestling fans have already made their bloody minds up about him. Oh well.
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So they should cheer him instead?...
 
akash02 said:
Right to do it? Sure but that doesn't make it any less stupider. Cry all you want about Bryan getting eliminated (and I agree that could have been handled better) but there was no need to boo Reigns after that. As it is, Bryan is not in the main event picture (Rightly so. The idea of him beating Brock is bordering ridiculous) and the guy who is in it will spend his time getting booed no matter what WWE do try and build him up because the oh so knowledgeable wrestling fans have already made their bloody minds up about him. Oh well.
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Really I don't think they were booing Reigns, they were booing the product.

Ambrose
Ziggler
Wyatt
Barret

Are all legitimate crowd favorites who have been booked terribly. Even Reigns to some extent has suffered. The audience took a stand and drew a red line over Bryan when they were going to feck him up last year.

There is even guys like Big E, Cesaro, Harper, Rowan. All of them had their momentum destroyed and could be legit big time players. People are sick of the same old crap.
 
Sylar said:
Dont let facts get in the way of a good story though.

Erm no. They should be concerned with people turning on their live shows and people cancelling their subscriptions. The WWE Network cancellation page went down because so many people were trying to access it :lol:

A few hundred fans hahahaah. Ok yeah sure. A 15 minute thing that has been happening for years rofl.
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So it's been happening for years, yet these mugs still turn up to every event, these mugs still went out and bought the network. They'll still turn up to the Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania and Summerslam. The thing that you dont seem to get is, where else will these people go? there isnt some alternative other product where only midgets who can do armbars are the only people pushed.

Sylar said:
Why are you making stuff up to suit your argument? It makes no sense. Who said people are unhappy with Reigns because he cant do fancy submission moves?
Probably because the other two have been in wrestling for longer and are better at having matches and cutting promos.
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All the complaints about Reigns are about how he's not good enough in the ring, read through the thread if you don't believe me.
So because they've been in wrestling longer it automatically makes them more suitable for a push...hmmm.

Sylar said:
Why do people still making the claim? Internet wrestling fans? Every damn wrestling fan has the internet know and most voice their opinion on social network / forums. This isnt the 90s where only a small portion used the internet.
Your points are invalid because they dont make sense right now.
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Err okay then...

Sylar said:
You do realise getting more air time doesnt mean you are being used / booked correctly right? Bryan was losing for the majority of 2013 and the beginning of 2014 until WM. And he had one match against Kane. Kane!! as champion.
Yes Bryans one month as champion didnt see a rise so lets never use him as main event again. OK ;) gotcha pal.
And Punk as champion only main evented when he turned heel to lose to the Rock. When he was champion Cena was still main event. You do realise this right?

Being on TV does not mean you are being used right / getting pushed. Look at Zack Ryder. They killed his momentum to get Eve and John cena over. Yes he got more TV time but he was getting crushed by Kane every week and embarrassed by Eve. lol.

WWE fecked up yesterday. Its quite clear. The backlash isnt just people on internet forums / social media.
Its also WWE fans in attendance and people cancelling subscriptions (which has been worse than they thought it would be)
I do find it funny, because its not bandwagon or anything else. This is 2015 where technology is at a level its never been before and people have more of a voice than theyve ever had and will use it to express their displeasure.

Having Bryan return to lose like he is is bonkers and bad oversight.

Lets be honest, everybody talks about the attitude era but that would not have happened had WCW not been kicking their arse for weeks. WWE had to change. Now the dominance they have is bad for their overall product because they dont give a shit.
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Ahh still making excuses, as if CM punk wasnt given hourly slots to cut promos and what not, as if Daniel Bryan wasnt afforded the same thing. The ratings still never saw a sharp rise.
At no point have I said Daniel Bryan should not be Champion again, I actually like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk(until he fecked off) but I can completely understand why the WWE weren't willing to have him win the rumble this time. Last year they got it horribly wrong with Batista but they fixed it, they haven't made the same mistake this time.

What does it matter who was in the main event ? the fact is Punk and Bryan were champions, they were given a lot of air time and it still made no difference to ratings, just stop with the embarrassing excuses.
The thing is as well, the hourly ratings showed no significant rise either, which again links to the pointlessness of who was in the main event. Surely people could have just tuned in for Bryan and Punk and then by time the main event came with big bad horrible John Cena, they could have just..you know.. turned off the tv. They didn't though, because they love the whole Cena drama, that's why they turn up in Anti Cena shirts.

Zack Ryder is shit and always has been, he failed to capitalise on TV time with Cena, so many wrestlers before him have benefited with having programmes with John Cena it's not his fault Ryder is shit and that smarks stopped giving a shit about Ryder because deep down they know he's shit.

It's bandwagon, it was in philly, expected reactions, 1 in 4 people are retarded. So for every one person bitching and complaining and supposedly cancelling subscriptions (we'll see how long that lasts) three won't. Law of averages.
 
Brownie85 said:
Thats a great point, but personally, i don't think Lesnar should have been the one to end the streak in the first place. I'd have loved for it to be someone like Bray Wyatt to end the streak. Sure, it made sense for Lesnar to beat Taker, with Lesnar being portrayed as a beast, with legitimate MMA training etc, but if someone like Wyatt had beaten him, that would have propelled him to mega heel in moments. I just saw no point in having a part time, already made wrestler beating Taker when an up and comer could have done it.

Having Roman Reigns beat Lesnar clean at Mania when Taker, Cena, Rollins etc couldn't do it would definitely propel him to a new level, but would the fans actually care? Thats the problem. They'd have to build Reigns up between now and Mania to a point where fans could actually believe he can do it. In the end they'll most likely have him win with massive outside interference from The Rock and a couple of others tho i bet.
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My dream wm match would be Wyatt vs undertaker in a buried alive match, suits characters down to the ground, I have wyatt winning. I would be a fitting end to the dead mans career.

If they think believe that Roman needs a quick push to make him a believable successor to Lesnar then have Roman vs Undertaker at fast lane, as in my eyes their has never been a wrestler as good as Undertaker in helping push wrestlers careers.
 
The Law of Denis said:
Really I don't think they were booing Reigns, they were booing the product.

Ambrose
Ziggler
Wyatt
Barret

Are all legitimate crowd favorites who have been booked terribly. Even Reigns to some extent has suffered. The audience took a stand and drew a red line over Bryan when they were going to feck him up last year.

There is even guys like Big E, Cesaro, Harper, Rowan. All of them had their momentum destroyed and could be legit big time players. People are sick of the same old crap.
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That's contradictory right there, how has Wyatt been booked badly along with Ambrose? Ambrose has jobbed to Wyatt about 20 weeks in a row. Which one is being badly booked? make up your mind, it can't be both.

Ziggler suffered because of his attitude, which has changed and with change has seen him come back into the main event picture.

Barrett booked badly? how? by having a 'bad news 'segment every week? by winning the IC title? Oh and he just came back from injury...

Big E, Rowan and Harper are not good enough and never will be, nobody will ever care about them enough, I said this about the Wyatts before, I said only Bray will make it because the other two are dry. I was shot down and told they could "wrestle" (zzzzzzzzzzz)

Cesaro is a twat and that's why he doesn't get pushed, bad mouthing Orton and Cena when you've done feck all in your career isn't going to get you headlining Wrestlemania, just shut the feck up and wrestle.

Can you explain to me how you'd book all of Ambrose, Wyatt, Barrett, Cesaro, Ziggler, Big E, Rowan and Harper all at the same time and get them all generating great momentum. explain.
 
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Leroy The Red said:
That's contradictory right there, how has Wyatt been booked badly along with Ambrose? Ambrose has jobbed to Wyatt about 20 weeks in a row. Which one is being badly booked? make up your mind, it can't be both.

Ziggler suffered because of his attitude, which has changed and with change has seen him come back into the main event picture.

Barrett booked badly? how? by having a 'bad news 'segment every week? by winning the IC title? Oh and he just came back from injury...

Big E, Rowan and Harper are not good enough and never will be, nobody will ever care about them enough, I said this about the Wyatts before, I said only Bray will make it because the other two are dry. I was shot down and told they could "wrestle" (zzzzzzzzzzz)

Cesaro is a twat and that's why he doesn't get pushed, bad mouthing Orton and Cena when you've done feck all in your career isn't going to get you headlining Wrestlemania, just shut the feck up and wrestle.

Can you explain to me how you'd book all of Ambrose, Wyatt, Barrett, Cesaro, Ziggler, Big E, Rowan and Harper all at the same time and get them all generating great momentum. explain.
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I'm not asking you to book them all into the main event at the same time. I don't want this to go into a point-by-point debate, but I honestly believe they could have done a lot better with all of them. Wyatt, for example, wasted tons of momentum by jobbing to Cena repeatedly. Cesaro, another example, was getting huge pops, he lost touch with the fans because of an terrible turn and did himself no favors by that one comment, but for Vince to say that he can not connect because maybe he is "swiss" is bullshit. Rowan and Harper could have easily had a proper feud together after splitting up but instead they face eachother weekly for nothing on smack down. Ziggler has the biggest night of his life in Survivor Series, then does nothing.

For months and months, we have had Kane interfere too often in matches, instead of ending clean. Now we have Big Show to accompany him. It is the embodiment of a wider problem because they keep going back to their old stars for the main event of Wrestlemania and on the build up to it

Honestly, if all these guys are not good enough, then someone in WWE should be fecking fired for not hiring enough talent that can go to the main the event. It's been so long since someone broke through to the very top, you think they'd realize they need someone better.
 
Leroy The Red said:
That's contradictory right there, how has Wyatt been booked badly along with Ambrose? Ambrose has jobbed to Wyatt about 20 weeks in a row. Which one is being badly booked? make up your mind, it can't be both.

Ziggler suffered because of his attitude, which has changed and with change has seen him come back into the main event picture.

Barrett booked badly? how? by having a 'bad news 'segment every week? by winning the IC title? Oh and he just came back from injury...

Big E, Rowan and Harper are not good enough and never will be, nobody will ever care about them enough, I said this about the Wyatts before, I said only Bray will make it because the other two are dry. I was shot down and told they could "wrestle" (zzzzzzzzzzz)

Cesaro is a twat and that's why he doesn't get pushed, bad mouthing Orton and Cena when you've done feck all in your career isn't going to get you headlining Wrestlemania, just shut the feck up and wrestle.

Can you explain to me how you'd book all of Ambrose, Wyatt, Barrett, Cesaro, Ziggler, Big E, Rowan and Harper all at the same time and get them all generating great momentum. explain.
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Ziggler's attitude hasn't changed. That's why they did the fired angle and took his belt off him.
 
akash02 said:
Right to do it? Sure but that doesn't make it any less stupider. Cry all you want about Bryan getting eliminated (and I agree that could have been handled better) but there was no need to boo Reigns after that. As it is, Bryan is not in the main event picture (Rightly so. The idea of him beating Brock is bordering ridiculous) and the guy who is in it will spend his time getting booed no matter what WWE do try and build him up because the oh so knowledgeable wrestling fans have already made their bloody minds up about him. Oh well.
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I rarely watch wrestling, but people would boo Reigns regardless. From what I've seen, he can't wrestle, can't speak and can't connect with fans. He's fecked.
 
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