Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

b82REZ said:
Their production values hold them back so much. If they genuinely want to rival WWE eventually; they really need to make their shows looks and feel better.

Since its inception AEW has the look and feel of an Indy promotion that just happened to get a TV deal. Lucha Underground had better production values. While they have such an amateur look and feel they will always struggle to attract the more casual audience that WWE currently monopolise.
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The production is obviously not near WWE. But other than that I dont see Wrestling companies with better. So I dont get your comment.

Lucha Underground lost money and went bust and it was a tv show. They would do things over and over, take after take. WWE can have huge production costs because they are unsinkable at the moment because of their tv rights deals. AEW needs to remain in budget to survive.

They are missing things which are being described by the commentators, and/or happening elsewhere in the match. Thats a timing and communication issue. Thats for the wrestlers, agents and tony to sort out. And if they cant keep up, then theres too much happening in the match so they need to cut something out.
 
Ekeke said:
The production is obviously not near WWE. But other than that I dont see Wrestling companies with better. So I dont get your comment.

Lucha Underground lost money and went bust and it was a tv show. They would do things over and over, take after take. WWE can have huge production costs because they are unsinkable at the moment because of their tv rights deals. AEW needs to remain in budget to survive.

They are missing things which are being described by the commentators, and/or happening elsewhere in the match. Thats a timing and communication issue. Thats for the wrestlers, agents and tony to sort out. And if they cant keep up, then theres too much happening in the match so they need to cut something out.
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Isn't that precisely his point?
 
Ekeke said:
I used to have a sub in like 2017 back when I never missed a Stardom show. Plenty of quality talent comes through EVE, either imported internationally or built up domestically. Eve was also the first place I saw Hayter before she started to do Stardom tours. Funnily enough she wasnt someone I really noticed that much at first, but when she went to Japan she stood out a lot more and was one to watch
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Like MJF she's just a naturally great heel. Her interactions with the crowd in some of those videos above are great. Obviously easier to do that on smaller shows but I hope they just keep her who she is. Really enjoy the way she works as well, stiff but safe. Hope Tony removes the silly interim stipulation and she goes on to have a great run although I'm not sure how many of the other women in AEW are on her level.
 
Yep. The Elite are ridiculously self indulgent. For me, they represent the worst parts of AEW - ‘comedy’ irrelevance, meta ha ha, spot monkeys, work rate over story, self indulgence, a lack of quality control creatively, jobs for the friends, pointless lackeys and playing to the hardcore smart crowd.

That being said, AEW are doing a lot of things right currently. Especially the development of ‘home grown’ (read - non WWE/Impact) talent with the likes of MJF, Jamie Hayter, Ricky Starks, Wardlow, The Acclaimed and Britt Baker looking like absolute diamonds.

Raw is the absolute pits of late and it discredits the Triple H regime. There’s very little star power and they’ve already botched a few returns with the Gargano/Miz/Lumis feud being the most disappointing storyline in recent memory, Damage CTRL being a snooze fest and way too much TV time given to people who don’t have the ability to carry it. The show is so boring and contrived. Very little on it is landing and everyone feels stale, even if they’ve just arrived. Truly abhorrent creative.

SmackDown is also fairly paint by numbers besides some absolute gold like Sami/Bloodline and LA Knight/Wyatt.

Triple H isn’t the creative dynamo that many heralded him as. His NXT 1.0 was way overrated because the booking was at least sensible (unlike VKM’s booking), there was a glut of indie darlings carrying the product and the Takeovers were brilliant from an in ring perspective. Weekly shows back then were really unadventurous and missable. Triple H led Raws/SmackDowns are similar.

He is the polar opposite to someone like Russo who loaded weekly TV with fast paced twists and turns and character development, though left little for the PPVs. Triple H PPVs/PLEs have been decent but the weekly shows have been creatively dry with very little progression and endless repetition (seriously - how many times can we see a permutation of Damage CTR vs Bianca, Asuka and Alexa or AJ and OC vs Judgment Day?). I’m incredibly disappointed, given the initial promising signs that the Triple H regime gave off.
 
I think it's been boring the whole way through. Raw livened up for a few Weeks after he took over but that was mainly down to pops for people returning.

No one really has a chance on that show as there are no storylines or fueds for anyone to play to, and it's 3 hours long. Nothing that happens makes you want to know/care what happens next, and even if it did nothing ever leads to anything interesting anyway. Trying to make nothing interesting for that long is beyond anyone.

It's like listening to someone ramble on for ages waiting for them to get to the point, and then eventually they stop talking and you realise there wasn't one.

Like they spent ages building the Judgenent Day vs Edge/Mysterio. The only actual noteworthy storyline on raw...and then just when it was heating up they write Edge off the show and move Mysterio to Smackdown...Great storybuilding that.
 
Raw never taped for me last night for some reason?, was it on a different channel last night?
 
Shane88 said:
The best of 7 is total overkill.
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Totally agreed. The Elite generally put on a good show, but the same match on repeat is too much and very self important. It's basically artificially extending the DT reign long enough to make it not seem like they came back and immediately took back the belts.

SparkedIntoLife said:
Yep. The Elite are ridiculously self indulgent. For me, they represent the worst parts of AEW - ‘comedy’ irrelevance, meta ha ha, spot monkeys, work rate over story, self indulgence, a lack of quality control creatively, jobs for the friends, pointless lackeys and playing to the hardcore smart crowd.
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I think that's a bit harsh on them, they're well capable of putting on awesome matches, and the comedy stuff works really well in small doses, but the behind the scenes stuff you're definitely right about. They seem very cliquey, and threatened by bigger stars or folks who could steal their thunder (Punk, FTR, for example).
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
Yep. The Elite are ridiculously self indulgent. For me, they represent the worst parts of AEW - ‘comedy’ irrelevance, meta ha ha, spot monkeys, work rate over story, self indulgence, a lack of quality control creatively, jobs for the friends, pointless lackeys and playing to the hardcore smart crowd.
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I seen a clip from their last match (I think it was the opening minute) on Twitter and I guess I'm not their target market (lapsed fan, wrong side of 30 whos favorite wrestler was Bret Hart) because I thought it looked embarrassingly bad.
 
RacingClub said:
I seen a clip from their last match (I think it was the opening minute) on Twitter and I guess I'm not their target market (lapsed fan, wrong side of 30 whos favorite wrestler was Bret Hart) because I thought it looked embarrassingly bad.
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Likewise. Overly choreographed nonsense that served no purpose.
 
The Hilton said:
Totally agreed. The Elite generally put on a good show, but the same match on repeat is too much and very self important. It's basically artificially extending the DT reign long enough to make it not seem like they came back and immediately took back the belts.



I think that's a bit harsh on them, they're well capable of putting on awesome matches, and the comedy stuff works really well in small doses, but the behind the scenes stuff you're definitely right about. They seem very cliquey, and threatened by bigger stars or folks who could steal their thunder (Punk, FTR, for example).
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I think what they do is impressive and I quite like Omega in ring as, unlike the Young Bucks, most of his moves look like they hurt like hell. I just think they’ve been hyped to kingdom come by the IWC to the point where I feel some revulsion to them in response. I also don’t rate them on the mic and their storylines aren’t my thing at all.

You’re right about the political side to them. I felt they were very self congratulatory early on (‘we’re going to change the world’ etc) but didn’t realise just how cunning and insecure they could be until the last few months where it can’t really be denied anymore.

RacingClub said:
I seen a clip from their last match (I think it was the opening minute) on Twitter and I guess I'm not their target market (lapsed fan, wrong side of 30 whos favorite wrestler was Bret Hart) because I thought it looked embarrassingly bad.
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I’m totally the same. Massive Bret Hart fan here too. I’m of the mindset that wrestling is best when it’s varied in styles but their wrestling is just far too theatrical and unrealistic for me, especially the Bucks.
 
Full Gear banged again. One of the best 6-man tags you could ever hope to see, Hayter getting the title in a super hot bout, then MJF winning the main event. Another all-time great PPV.

The matches announced for the upcoming weeks look stacked too.
 
I can totally see why some people would hate the Bucks and I do enjoy Kenny more when he's doing his own thing which is why I'm looking forward so much to Wrestle Kingdom. I'm fairly indifferent to them and I do wish they'd reign in some of the same repetitive spots (the dive stuff to the outside when everyone is standing around for ages waiting to make the catch always looks stupid).

That said, they can do storylines and the big one with Hangman and the Elite is probably the best storyline the company has done since it started. The tag team title match between the Bucks & Hangman/Omega at Revolution 2020 was an all timer as well. Had absolutely everything you could want from a wrestling match.
 
Finished full gear today. It does look like course correction with regards to the focus and titles.

Ethan/Starks for number one contender is good. Mjf as champion obviously the best thing they've done. The obvious long term story to tell would have been wardlow beating him down the line but they haven't done a good job with wardlow since he last beat mjf. They can't rectify that easily though.

I'm glad hayter won the title. Thought her and Toni had the best in ring match. Huge fan of Toni but was the right time to give hayter the title. Interested to see how they do the hayter/Brit breakup and when it's done

Also completely understand the bucks criticism. I won't hate it cos it obviously gets a huge reaction from the crowds and probably is fun to see live. Not sure I want to see the same match seven times so will be upto them to differ the matches. But yeah the whole kicks with and blocking and all looks way too choreographed to me. But in a strange way I think they are the best at doing that stuff.
I like omega and hopefully he goes singles again.

Interested to see what they do with jungle boy going forward. Assuming he will face Christian eventually

The whole Jeff Jarrett thing is weird. He attacked Darby Allen... And Darby got revenge by ... Pinning jay lethal?
Anyway hope it's the end of this, don't want to see Darby v Jarrett one on one
 
MC89 said:
Watching raw and a Cathy Kelley doing a interview with the OC and Mia Yim, she’s forgot to put trousers on, haha.
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Same again the night

Don’t get putting Auska v Rhea for advantage in wargames knew she was gonna get beat, why no put Bianca in, that’s obvious to me, knew it was a bad move when they announced Auska.
 
Punk is coming back, right? ... Right?

FTR and punk challenging elite after they inevitably win the trios titles Is something I can see happening leading to punk v omega

Otherwise ... Yea
 
noodlehair said:
I think it's been boring the whole way through. Raw livened up for a few Weeks after he took over but that was mainly down to pops for people returning.

No one really has a chance on that show as there are no storylines or fueds for anyone to play to, and it's 3 hours long. Nothing that happens makes you want to know/care what happens next, and even if it did nothing ever leads to anything interesting anyway. Trying to make nothing interesting for that long is beyond anyone.

It's like listening to someone ramble on for ages waiting for them to get to the point, and then eventually they stop talking and you realise there wasn't one.

Like they spent ages building the Judgenent Day vs Edge/Mysterio. The only actual noteworthy storyline on raw...and then just when it was heating up they write Edge off the show and move Mysterio to Smackdown...Great storybuilding that.
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That fecked me right off. Judgment day had just got really interesting as a faction too.
The stuff with AJ and the OC just doesn’t feel as personal.
 
Sylar said:
Punk is coming back, right? ... Right?

FTR and punk challenging elite after they inevitably win the trios titles Is something I can see happening leading to punk v omega

Otherwise ... Yea
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It would take Punk a few more months to recover from his injury, right? last night was the first time, I actually thought he'd come back, but as far as I am aware he is still legit hurt.
 
The entire match was just a piss take of Punk. Mocking his finisher, his botches, his biting.

Edit: Well, his friend's biting.
 
D. Grayson said:
It would take Punk a few more months to recover from his injury, right? last night was the first time, I actually thought he'd come back, but as far as I am aware he is still legit hurt.
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I think match seven is midway through January 11. So I guess they could have punk/FTR return (if that was happening)
Next ppv is march so you can go back and forth, until their ppv match or build to a trios match for a dynamite special then have punk/omega for match ppv depending on his recovery

If he's returning of course :lol:
 
Great heel work. Wouldn't read too much into it other than them working the Chicago crowd.

Bit dumb to put the red hot womens champion straight into a 3-way tag match for no apparent reason. I mean the only purpose of it was seemingly to drop in a few more hints at the breakup with Britt. Just let her speak and get a few defences in ffs.
 
Yeah, not sure how much the stuff in last night's match is hinting of Punk's return. They were in Chicago, so they had to own it to some extent.

More interesting was Punk only getting a mixed reaction. The "feck CM Punk" and "Colt Cabana" chants were just as notable.
 
TMDaines said:
Yeah, not sure how much the stuff in last night's match is hinting of Punk's return. They were in Chicago, so they had to own it to some extent.

More interesting was Punk only getting a mixed reaction. The "feck CM Punk" and "Colt Cabana" chants were just as notable.
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I’d say a lot of Punk fans are done with AEW now so why get a ticket? The same way WWE goes to Chicago now and you don’t get any Punk chants
 
TMDaines said:
Yeah, not sure how much the stuff in last night's match is hinting of Punk's return. They were in Chicago, so they had to own it to some extent.

More interesting was Punk only getting a mixed reaction. The "feck CM Punk" and "Colt Cabana" chants were just as notable.
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If it's not hinting at a Punk return it just kind of validates some of Punks comments from the Gripebomb though doesn't it? Bunch of guys going into business for themselves with no payoff?

I do hope it's to set up a 6 man tag later (elite vs punk/ftr) down the road though as at least something good came out of all that drama and I do think it would capture the imagination of plenty of non AEW fans and you could have a good year of matches out of it (singles / tags etc).

As far as the second part , doesn't it make sense that the pro Punk guys aren't in attendance due to the fact that Punk isn't/wasn't going to be there?
 
RacingClub said:
If it's not hinting at a Punk return it just kind of validates some of Punks comments from the Gripebomb though doesn't it? Bunch of guys going into business for themselves with no payoff?

I do hope it's to set up a 6 man tag later (elite vs punk/ftr) down the road though as at least something good came out of all that drama and I do think it would capture the imagination of plenty of non AEW fans and you could have a good year of matches out of it (singles / tags etc).

As far as the second part , doesn't it make sense that the pro Punk guys aren't in attendance due to the fact that Punk isn't/wasn't going to be there?
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I’m not sure having a few spots that allude to CM Punk is what you are making it out to be. They were in Chicago, so they knew the crowd was gonna act accordingly. They would have been stupid to not be prepared to own it. They were heeling it up and probably expected a more negative reaction than they actually got in the end. The crowd was a really good one that didn’t try to hijack the show.

I really have little interest in seeing Punk again at this stage. It’s not worth the drama. Between his ego and frequent injuries, it is impossible to book with any confidence. I feel the same about him as I do Ronaldo – and I imagine many Chicagoans do too. It is time to move on.
 
Probably alone in this, but I'm really not sure what doing an on-purpose botch live on TV really achieves? If you get the reference then it's either funny /petty depending on your predisposition, but if you don't get it then it just makes the whole thing look a bit silly.

But hey, I'm probably just a miserable old git.
 
noodlehair said:
And again, regardless of if you're legitimately pissed off or being wronged, you can't go into a press conference and literally slag off your employer and everyone you work for to the entire media, and expect to not be painted as the bad guy. The Ronaldo comparison for example. This would be like Ronaldo walking into the press room after a game and telling the media Man Utd are a bunch of clowns, all his team mates are children etc. Launching a tirade against several other first team players and challenging them to come confront him. No one would be defending him because it would be so ridiculous for him to be stupid enough to do it.
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This aged well
:nervous:
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Probably alone in this, but I'm really not sure what doing an on-purpose botch live on TV really achieves? If you get the reference then it's either funny /petty depending on your predisposition, but if you don't get it then it just makes the whole thing look a bit silly.

But hey, I'm probably just a miserable old git.
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Well it was specifically for the crowd reaction wasn't it. Nobody there didn't get the reference.
 
Ludens the Red said:
That fecked me right off. Judgment day had just got really interesting as a faction too.
The stuff with AJ and the OC just doesn’t feel as personal.
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They've gone from a feud built around a son betraying his father after years of wrestling as a team, and group betraying their leader and trying to end his career, to a feud built around AJ Styles used to sort of be mates with Fin Balor but isn't anymore and they had like one civil conversation about it backstage but it was slightly rude. It's shite.

You can overlook the fudged together bloodline/brutes feud as on paper the match could be excellent, and it at least plays along to the Sami Zayn angle, but outside of that nothing interesting is happening on either show really. None of the feuds are built well at all (if they are at all) so are all just uninteresting and feel forced.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
That's fine if it's a house show... But this is on national television
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It's only AEW. Nobody watches it.

In all seriousness though, wrestling is mostly about the crowd. Contrast the reaction in this match to the women's tag after. And what were we all saying during the pandemic with no crowds? It wasn't the same.

You're argument seems to be that people at home wouldn't get the joke. I don't even think that's true.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
That's fine if it's a house show... But this is on national television
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Agree with this. The problem is The Elite aren’t heels, they’re just hated in Chicago now. There’s a huge difference.
There’s a reason why we don’t hear Punk chants in Chicago at WWE shows now, his fans just won’t support a product thats done him wrong. The same thing will happen here, how trolling the fanbase of their biggest ever star was thought to be a good idea is ridiculous
 
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