Kind of proves Punks point about the Elite running in to control the narrative. Dave has put out about 8 different versions of this that adjusts through what news becomes the accepted truth.
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
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Yeah I was surprised that r/SquaredCircle seemed to unanimously believe the "Pro Elite" (I guess?) Version of events which was basically "They entered calmly, punk started swinging like a mad man, Kenny Omega saw that there was a scared dog there and rushed him to safety , Ace Steele threw a chair and then for absolutely no reason bit Kenny Omega randomly" immediately.
I guess if certain journalists present something as fact it will be unanimously believed in some (Squared) circles.
Basically this , it's like he's running their PR.
Blah blah blah. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's CM Punk.
Exactly
Pretty much spot on, he's clearly been running defence for the Bucks throughout this. And there's plenty of their fans willing to make nonsensical leaps of logic to act like they're unimpeachable too.
Regardless of anything, if Elite are coming back and Punk isnt, then it seems like the investigation would be over and they would have concluded its Punks fault... right?
Especially if there were witnesses there.
Especially if there were witnesses there.
I think the fact that both parties have been suspended for so long shows that they've concluded that everyone is at fault, which is the only sensible conclusion.
However, the Elite were always gonna come back, the company is named after them and they're younger too, so are the short and long term pick.
Or they've been suspended whilst the investigation was ongoing
Then it concluded and one party is coming back and the other isn't?
Dunno
Punk was already acting like a massive twat before any of this. Him being an extraordinary dickhead is literally what caused any of it to happen in the first place....and that's not subjective or speculative. He was using TV promos to air his childish dirty laundry, and then he gave a press conference slagging off half the people he works with. Even based just on that he's more than earned himself a sacking.
That doesn't mean fault though, it's probably more of a cost benefit analysis - Punk is the biggest star there, by a country mile, but he's only got a few years left and leaving the Elite out means they join WWE, and that would be a really awful look.
Yeah punk wouldn't just allow that. Nobody would unless they get something in return
Punk wouldn't allow what? The Elite to join WWE if he stayed in AEW and they didn't? I'm not sure there's much he could do about it.
Punk wouldnt just take the fall if he wasn't at fault or if it was shared fault
What choice would he have? It's about what Tony Khan thinks is best, and that'll always be the Elite staying in AEW.
It's quite clear that both parties have behaved poorly throughout this whole saga.
Nothing is clear as nothing clear has been divulged. You're guessing based on reports which have been ever changing
All we know is suspensions took place during an investigation. An investigation is over and one side is returning and another (so far) isn't.
This doesn't mean both sides are at fault, but we won't know until all details are directly shared by all parties involved. It's guess work now but the big assumption to take is which sides story is closer to the truth.
I’m not a massive Punk fan but there has been stories that were treated like fact about him getting Colt off AEW tv and the Elite getting him hired to ROH because it was the right thing to do. Then Hangman goes off script about it. Then Kenny does his promo in his first week back. I’m not surprised Punk lost his cool.
I also think the fact he isn’t getting fired but getting his contract bought out shows the investigation turned feck all up
I'm struggling to pin down your position on this - you started with "Elite are coming back so definitely Punk's fault" and now you're at "it's all guess work". The former I disagreed with, the latter I agree with, although the reports of the accepted facts paint both sides badly.
Im saying theres nothing (yet) to suggest how much Elite are actually at fault for this. Whether its none, little or equally.
All we know right now is Punk is defo at fault for some part.
There's loads to suggest that they're at fault, there just isn't concrete proof. But then the same is true of Punk, apart from the press conference.
But contrary to your original suggestion, the Elite coming back and Punk not isn't really proof of anything either, given that the company is named after them they're going to be picked in any possible "who do we keep" scenario for the foreseeable future.
Im baffled by your points on this given this happens with any investigation. Whenever there is any type of investigation, people from both sides are usually suspended (but you seem to think suspension = fault). Thats not how it works.
As for the bolded, theres nothing to suggest this. History shows this isnt the case when we look at Cody.
Cody helped with the formation of AEW, was a EVP (and seemed to be more visual in terms of that) but ended up not being kept by Tony / ended up going. (Cody same age as matt jackson I believe)
All we really know is:
Ace Steel got fired
Elite are coming back.
CM Punk isnt coming back (so far, despite being a champion that didnt drop the belt)
From that, its easy to conclude how the investigation went (until we get a definite statement)
I think Noodle has said all that needs to be said on this subject. He won't be welcome back in AEW and I doubt the WWE would want to touch him either.
Firstly, your Cody example is irrelevant, he wanted to leave, and according to reports was no longer on good terms with the other EVPS (which would then support my suggestion that the Elite will be picked to stay above others).
What's really baffling is your lack of consistency of logic. You suggest that we can't trust any of the reports, and have to go on what we know only, but then state it's "easy to conclude" who's at fault, when there are plenty of other reasons why the Elite are coming back and Punk isn't. That's a complete U-turn.
Without a statement, you aren't concluding, you're speculating, when there are loads of other potential reasons for that being the case. And it's also expected, if Tony Khan has to choose between one star who's become very injury prone, or 3 stars who started the company and it's named after, who have many more years left to wrestle in comparison, then there's only one winner. Short of video evidence of the Bucks actually performing the BTE trigger on Larry the dog, there's no way they weren't coming back.
I'd be amazed if WWE don't make some sort of an offer.
He's been huge for AEW, he gets more eyes on the product than anyone else, and he's been their biggest merchandise seller by a country mile.
Having him show up in WWE would be a huge win, and make everyone involved a ton of money.
Yeah if he's leaving AEW there's no chance WWE will leave that amount of potential money on the table without at least attempting to tempt Punk into a comeback IMO, I don't know if Punk would take it but it would be insane for WWE to not try an capitalize on it.
This moment was just over a year ago
Like him or not, the guy is a wrestling superstar.
I really don't care who is and isn't to blame. Its even more boring than the fake feuding, but the fact is punk has acted like a complete dick on live television and in front of the entire media. Regardless of what anyone else has done, he's done enough to get himself booted out just based on things we DO know are facts because we can all see and watch it.
I doubt any investigation has much to do with anything other than ticking some legal boxes. How do you "investigate" a bunch of idiots having a fight in the workplace? It's just playground rubbish involving grown adults.
What it comes down to is the rest of the people involved havent at any point walked into a press conference and completely burned their bridges with AEW in full view of the media. If Punk hadn't done that I doubt they'd have let him go all that willingly as he gives them far more exposure than anyone else they have.
I have a suspicion they won’t even let Punk go and make him see out his contract since there’s rumoured WWE interest now which would be the wrong thing to do
WWE wouldn't touch him and Punk's pride wouldn't let him go back.
Again, your whole comment on what happened is basic guessing and assumptions.
Who says Tony has to choose? If he wants to, he can choose to keep them all. They are all under contract to him.
I certainly didnt say its easy to conclude whos at fault.
I defo did say you can conclude how the investigation went.
Youre under the impression that being suspended during an investigation = youre at fault.
It might come out that Elite were at equal fault or no fault at all, but again, theres nothing to suggest from AEWs actions so far, either way.
And again, I didnt say you cant trust any reports. I said reports are changing.
Youre either misunderstanding or misreading what ive typed.
You keep saying theres plenty of other 'potential' reasons why Elite are coming back and Punk isnt. Right now, thats all guess work.
Maybe Punk will come back (and isnt right now cos hes injured). Which goes back to my intial point, 'if Elite come back and Punk doesnt...'
But when an investigation against two parties goes on, with witnesses, and once the investigation is ended, you see one side is returning and the other is quiet, yes you can conclude. Tony Khan hasnt admonished (publicly anyway) Punk for anything thats happened previously (whether its promos or not)
So if Punk and Elite are both equally at fault, and one returns and another doesnt (without getting something in return), you really think Punk will let that be?
We're getting into the weeds a bit here, and I can't be bothered to try to have multiple arguments in individual posts and I'm sure you can't either. So to refocus us, here's your original statement:
I disagree with your reasoning here, as the Elite coming back and Punk not isn't enough to conclude that it's Punk's fault. There's his long term injury, their relative popularity within the dressing room/company, their longevity, plenty of other variable factors that could contribute. Short of a statement, then it's jumping to conclusions.
It would be wrong, but it's pretty doubtful - if nothing else Punk is costing a lot of money, they'll likely come to some sort of agreement to reduce the buyout. Either they use him, or they lose the expense, anything else would be rubbish business acumen.
If Punk feels genuinely slighted by the Elite, I could see him going back to show AEW what they're missing.
From the WWE side, it makes a lot of business sense to bring him in; if the optics of Cody going over were good for them, then the optics of easily the biggest star AEW have ever had showing up in WWE are even better. On top of that he's proven to be a huge commodity still, so there's plenty of money to be made.
Yeah i get you and dont think we will agree and will end up in circles.
If both are at equal fault, a lot of what youre saying as reasons wont matter, because they are on equal footing when the investigation is over.
I wont go over each point but remember you also said this:
That is not right for an obvious reason.
They're all a bunch of knobs, but Punk is probably the king knob.
I disagree that they'll both be on equal footing, there'll still be one party that holds more power, given that their name is part of the company name and that they hold positions of power there.
However, you're right that I can't draw that conclusion from them both being suspended, for the same reason that you can't draw the conclusion that Punk is the one at fault from the Elite coming back, because in both cases it's a single data point that could have multiple explanations.
The way Punk has been eulogised is well wide of his actual ability nowadays.
He is full of mistakes, injury prone and has an ego that would make Hulk Hogan blush. Was white hot for an 18 month period around 2011 and has tried to eat out on that success ever since.
While I don't like the Young Bucks; making out that there is an element of doubt around Punk's involvement is delusional and borders on outright fanboyism. What he did in that press conference was enough to get most people fired immediately, but also justifies, somewhat, the melee that ensued afterwards. He knew what he was doing and I do think it was his way of retiring because he knew his body wasn't up to the task of wrestling. He's just far too pigheaded and arrogant to gracefully walk away, so burnt every bridge possible to try and garner some sympathy.
I can't see WWE being stupid enough to approach him, but his ego wouldn't allow him to go back and work under HHH, who apparently buried him and was one of the contributers to his walking out (in Punk's words, not mine).
He is full of mistakes, injury prone and has an ego that would make Hulk Hogan blush. Was white hot for an 18 month period around 2011 and has tried to eat out on that success ever since.
While I don't like the Young Bucks; making out that there is an element of doubt around Punk's involvement is delusional and borders on outright fanboyism. What he did in that press conference was enough to get most people fired immediately, but also justifies, somewhat, the melee that ensued afterwards. He knew what he was doing and I do think it was his way of retiring because he knew his body wasn't up to the task of wrestling. He's just far too pigheaded and arrogant to gracefully walk away, so burnt every bridge possible to try and garner some sympathy.
I can't see WWE being stupid enough to approach him, but his ego wouldn't allow him to go back and work under HHH, who apparently buried him and was one of the contributers to his walking out (in Punk's words, not mine).
Agree with all of that. He's a busted flush in the ring from what we've seen and he wouldn't get the same pop coming back again. Yeah sure he'll always have his fans and sell tickets and merch but who really needs the drama that comes with it.
That said I'd love to see him in the WWE as I'd be eagerly anticipating meltdown pt3. Would certainly get my eyes on it again just for that.
I do hope Punk returns though. I do like his promos. they have an air of being different to others. Like MJF too.
Yep, thats why I said Elite coming back AND punk not coming back.
Again I agree with that and that's obviously something he'll always have but I still find it funny that the whole thing which bruised his ego so much was a slightly shootish comment by Hangman that barely registered with anyone.
You've built an entire career of this shit man! Where's your self awareness?
I know there's pretty much no chance now but hypothetically if he comes back to AEW does anyone see him getting anything but boo'd? And not in the good way either.
A heel run could be good. I think his promos will defo be better that way.Again I agree with that and that's obviously something he'll always have but I still find it funny that the whole thing which bruised his ego so much was a slightly shootish comment by Hangman that barely registered with anyone.
You've built an entire career of this shit man! Where's your self awareness?
I know there's pretty much no chance now but hypothetically if he comes back to AEW does anyone see him getting anything but boo'd? And not in the good way either.
Yeah when I heard what the issue was with hangmans comment, I was actually surprised. Then his rant against Cabana was just something and not in a good way.
Still isn't enough to draw the conclusion, given the number of reasons that he could not come back if they do.
I wholeheartedly agree with your first statement, Punk is the best talker in wrestling, can make any feud seem like it matters.
There'll obviously be rumours, but WWE don't really need Punk and have already been stung by him before, and had to put up with him slagging them off for years every time he's been given a platform. Only way I could see it happening is if HHH wanted to make a statement now he's in charge, but even then, Punk has publicly burnt his bridges with WWE so many times, he'd look like a chump if he went back to them.
Also not sure it would really hurt AEW that much more than just losing Punk in general will...and he really hasn't given them a choice in that regard.
I mean the shame with Punk is he is a really entertaining performer when he's on it, but he's so often got a chip on his shoulder and he can't seem to help himself in making sure the whole world knows about it.