Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

Annihilate Now! said:
To be fair the Hangman one was a routine clothesline - just a bit of a freak incident.

The dumping of people on their heads in general does have to stop though.
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While this one is a freak accident, as a company AEW have been treading a fine line and it's only a matter of time they end up with an Owen Hart type situation.

Too many of their wrestlers are unsafe or outright sloppy. The spot-fest matches are a recipe for disaster, and it's miraculous that they haven't had some serious injuries.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
To be fair the Hangman one was a routine clothesline - just a bit of a freak incident.

The dumping of people on their heads in general does have to stop though.
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But he’s trying that flip around clothesline sell. You only do that when one wrestler is bigger than the other, you usually dont see it between two similar size wrestlers for a reason.
It’s these hidden risks that are just not necessary. They all add up
 
Can tell you as a trained wrestler who did one of those flippy bumps in my first match from a shoulder tackle, and it left a big bruise for a few weeks, its mostly on the guy taking it and its more about your own agility and body movement. Hangman is more agile than I am and will normally get them right. He got this one wrong. Hopefully he recovers from his concussion as soon as possible. These are the risks you take when you try to do something other than the regular backbumps. I've seen people break ribs just from those.

Also I can tell you that I see people taking bumps landing improperly/dangerously in every company. Its not always on their head, or on their neck which can cause life changing damage but people also get dumped on their arms, shoulders, etc Becky's injury is from landing on her shoulder for example, from someone else's finishing move so that should be practiced to perfection... A lot of the time the good technique you're taught in training isnt there in these matches and people can get hurt.
 
It all comes from this mindset, thst everyone, no matter how big or tall that they are, must do flips, or have to hit hard, or be stiff.

Wrestling shouldn't be about that, it should be a performance, where neither person is actually looking to hurt the other one, so there is no need to be stiff, or even involve any moves that involve the head.

I don't get why people wish to have their head bashed in, have we not seen enough people having to retire, or in retirement have sooo many health issues, why do the current generation wish to follow in their respective footsteps??

All stiff shots to the head should be outlawed, by all companies, you only have to see the issues and the money being paid out in the NFL, to see just how this impacts their sports people.
There was a very good programme on the other day about a former Rugby Union player who has a lot of memory issues.

This is why I can't understand the popularity of say Darby Allen, he is an idiot, he shouldn't be on TV at all, taking the risks that he does.

I would like to see a wake up call for all wrestlers to change their ways, as what exactly is the point of being stiff with each other?
Why go hard, what is the point??
What is the end goal or point, surely both people in the ring, should be wanting to come out of a match with as few injuries or issues as possible?
 
Darby is of course an extreme case. He's a stuntman as well, so if he isnt in the ring launching himself out of it with no regard for his own safety then he would be throwing himself off something somewhere else, probably also some kind of televised show. I think given hes clearly someone who is going to be self destructive and there is no illusion that if he wasnt doing his dangerous spots in the ring he'd be a perfectly healthy person doing something else and that we keep in mind that he's been lucky and will be lucky to still be going with that style in 5-10 years, its not the end of the world.

It would be if people are looking at him and saying thats how to wrestle. But I dont think we're quite there yet. I think those watching generally realize that this is a crazy guy who is risking everything and at any moment that could be the end of his career.
 
Can't help but chuckle at people telling people how to bump to avoid a one-in-a-million freak injury spot.

The show was just about saved with all the MJF stuff. Very glad MJF doing a MITB was just a swerve and it remains a pre-announced match. Should be a great main event for Full Gear.
 
TMDaines said:
Can't help but chuckle at people telling people how to bump to avoid a one-in-a-million freak injury spot.

The show was just about saved with all the MJF stuff. Very glad MJF doing a MITB was just a swerve and it remains a pre-announced match. Should be a great main event for Full Gear.
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Is it one in a million when one or two wrestlers are getting dumped in their heads per show?
 
TMDaines said:
Can't help but chuckle at people telling people how to bump to avoid a one-in-a-million freak injury spot.
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Absolute bullshit.

Everyone has recognised this incident is an unfortunate accident.

The comments about how dangerous some spots have been, and continue to be in AEW, are true though. There will be a serious, potentially career ending, or worse accident eventually. You can't keep ignoring the dangerous spots and unprotected blows the head. For as watered down WWE became, they were completely correct in stopping these sorts of spots and matches.
 
b82REZ said:
Absolute bullshit.

Everyone has recognised this incident is an unfortunate accident.

The comments about how dangerous some spots have been, and continue to be in AEW, are true though. There will be a serious, potentially career ending, or worse accident eventually. You can't keep ignoring the dangerous spots and unprotected blows the head. For as watered down WWE became, they were completely correct in stopping these sorts of spots and matches.
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Have you ever watched WALTER, Sheamus et al? How are people making this a WWE vs AEW issue? A ludicrous comment.
 
TMDaines said:
Can't help but chuckle at people telling people how to bump to avoid a one-in-a-million freak injury spot.

The show was just about saved with all the MJF stuff. Very glad MJF doing a MITB was just a swerve and it remains a pre-announced match. Should be a great main event for Full Gear.
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So are we forgetting how Matt Hardy carried on after hitting his head pretty hard.
It is spots like Matt's, and others involving a person's head that need to be outlawed.

We as humans only get one brain, so why try and do things to hurt and damage that head, and why try to show support to those that do?
 
TMDaines said:
Have you ever watched WALTER, Sheamus et al? How are people making this a WWE vs AEW issue? A ludicrous comment.
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No-one has made this AEW Vs WWE. I'm not an 8 year old. I don't care who wins in the saddest fight ever.

If you can't see the difference between working slightly stiffer to making dangerous headfirst dives, mistimed acrobatic stunts that lead to the wrestler landing incorrectly or OTT headshots there's not much point in debating you as you're too caught up in the Fed Vs Dub sadness.
 
Still not seeing this supposed improvement in WWE. Thought RAW was dull as hell and didn't make it to the end. Watching some of the late 90s stuff on the network doesn't help as it juat drums home how uneventful RAW is now by comparison.
 
b82REZ said:
Absolute bullshit.

Everyone has recognised this incident is an unfortunate accident.

The comments about how dangerous some spots have been, and continue to be in AEW, are true though. There will be a serious, potentially career ending, or worse accident eventually. You can't keep ignoring the dangerous spots and unprotected blows the head. For as watered down WWE became, they were completely correct in stopping these sorts of spots and matches.
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What? Vince himself took a shoot headbutt from Owens in his 70s. WWE have dangerous spots all the time. Same as NJPW. And the indies. And AEW

Vince outlawed a few moves and some came back that had caused some injuries. Joe's muscle buster, Seth's buckle bomb, piledrivers. The Styles Clash was banned till Jericho told Vince the move was called something else, getting permission for AJ to bring it back against him. Austin Theory sometimes lands high on his neck/head from his huge leap when he does his rolling front dropkick. Seth does 3 suicide dives in a row as one of his signature spots in every match yet suicide dives have led to multiple deaths in the past few years.
 
:lol: What a load of guff. Was just a freak one from a stiff looking lariat in what was a pretty good match up until then.

The MJF promo was fire and they're heating up the title match nicely.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
:lol: What a load of guff. Was just a freak one from a stiff looking lariat in what was a pretty good match up until then.

The MJF promo was fire and they're heating up the title match nicely.
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My only issue with MJF's promos are that he shouts them, rather than just speaking them.
If he didn't shout then they would be far better, and far more effective.

Less is more.
 
Just one more thing on the "safety" subject

The crowd/audience pop and gasp all the time for things that dont hurt that much. And one of the things that nobody really pays attention to is what some wrestlers say hurts the most. I'm not going to say what those things are because Wrestling relies on that fine line between danger and safety. With the idea that you're veering towards the latter but making it look like the former. Go do a 4 week training class if you must know. But the point is unless you are taught the tricks and know how to look for them then you probably dont know.

Now obviously dropping someone high on their neck/head is not part of that discussion. Nor are skull to skull headbutts. Chairs to the head etc. Those are just as dangerous as they seem, you are rolling the dice and its only a matter of time until you get the number you dont want
 
Heads up for anybody taping smackdown on Friday on series link, it’s on BT sport 2 on Friday night/Saturday morning so will have to set it again, just noticed tonight.
 
Did anybody watch Halloween havoc? Does anybody even watch nxt ppvs? Obviously not takeover quality anymore but the nxt show from Tuesday was the first time I've seen it since the nxt 2.0 debut and it was fun (though obviously helped with the main roster cameos)
 
Sylar said:
Did anybody watch Halloween havoc? Does anybody even watch nxt ppvs? Obviously not takeover quality anymore but the nxt show from Tuesday was the first time I've seen it since the nxt 2.0 debut and it was fun (though obviously helped with the main roster cameos)
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I watched it. Didnt like it really, but for different reasons per match. Lots of things messed up in the ladder match, then most of the show was silly, then the main event was a great moves match but McDonuts did like 3 matches worth of stuff trying to get noticed. It was too much stuff with each thing having too little meaning for my tastes, but I can see why Meltzer and fans think it was a great match.
 
Anyone read the report from WrestleInc (think it's from the journalist who Punk spoke to at the press scrum about Colt Cabana) saying that the reason the locker room brawl kicked off between CM Punk / The Elite was due to the fact that someone from The Elite forcefully opened Punks locker room door hitting his dog (the dog reportedly had to have a couple of teeth removed due to the incident) ?

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/107305...=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=clip

I'm not an avid follower of Wrestling anymore but it's been interesting to follow from afar because it seems that Punk has been completely demonized in the weeks leading up to and following the brawl.

I don't really care either way but it's been so one-sided so far that it's funny to see so many backtracking on r/SquaredCircle after the nonstop Punk bashing recently.
 
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RacingClub said:
Anyone read the report from WrestleInc (think it's from the journalist who Punk spoke to at the press scrum about Colt Cabana) saying that the reason the locker room brawl kicked off between CM Punk / The Elite was due to the fact that someone from The Elite forcefully opened Punks locker room door hitting his dog (the dog reportedly had to have a couple of teeth removed due to the incident) ?

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/107305...=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=clip

I'm not an avid follower of Wrestling anymore but it's been interesting to follow from afar because it seems that Punk has been completely demonized in the weeks leading up to and following the brawl.

I don't really care either way but it's been so one-sided so far that it's funny to see so many backtracking on r/SquaredCircle after the nonstop Punk bashing recently.
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Thing is there was a group of people who came with the Bucks and Omega including Daniels who is an agent and responsible for talent and Megha who is the head of the legal department with only Tony Khan above her in the company. Everyone other than Punk's camp says the door wasnt locked or kicked open.

The door may have been opened normally and Larry might have been caught by it. But its a door, its going to open so you need to expect that.

Punk's camp are obviously trying to come up with ways to defend him, but they're instantly shot down because of all the neutral parties that witnessed it and the full investigation that has been going on. This isnt just a 2 sides thing, the neutral and responsible people with positions of power and authority in these situations saw what happened.

It may also explain why Kenny Omega's involvement was to take Larry out of the room while the other guys are fighting, although he was involved in the end because bizarrely Ace Steel bit him. He was let go this week, finally

Edit - Also, he said in the press conference if anyone has a problem with what hes saying go find him, his door is open... So why would the door be locked
 
I still don't know who Ace Steel is. The post above makes it sound suspiciously like it's the alter ego name of CM Punk's dog
 
Ekeke said:
Thing is there was a group of people who came with the Bucks and Omega including Daniels who is an agent and responsible for talent and Megha who is the head of the legal department with only Tony Khan above her in the company. Everyone other than Punk's camp says the door wasnt locked or kicked open.

The door may have been opened normally and Larry might have been caught by it. But its a door, its going to open so you need to expect that.

Punk's camp are obviously trying to come up with ways to defend him, but they're instantly shot down because of all the neutral parties that witnessed it and the full investigation that has been going on. This isnt just a 2 sides thing, the neutral and responsible people with positions of power and authority in these situations saw what happened.

It may also explain why Kenny Omega's involvement was to take Larry out of the room while the other guys are fighting, although he was involved in the end because bizarrely Ace Steel bit him. He was let go this week, finally

Edit - Also, he said in the press conference if anyone has a problem with what hes saying go find him, his door is open... So why would the door be locked
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You're just parroting the usual bad faith arguments. There are zero neutral parties involved, and nobody has made any actual statements.

Whoever confronted Punk showed awful judgement in choosing how and when to do so, and that includes Megha and anyone else there who should have known better.

Also, your statement that Punk is supposed to expect the door to his private locker room to fly open, strongly enough to knock his dogs teeth out, is laughable.
 
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RacingClub said:
Anyone read the report from WrestleInc (think it's from the journalist who Punk spoke to at the press scrum about Colt Cabana) saying that the reason the locker room brawl kicked off between CM Punk / The Elite was due to the fact that someone from The Elite forcefully opened Punks locker room door hitting his dog (the dog reportedly had to have a couple of teeth removed due to the incident) ?

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/107305...=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=clip

I'm not an avid follower of Wrestling anymore but it's been interesting to follow from afar because it seems that Punk has been completely demonized in the weeks leading up to and following the brawl.

I don't really care either way but it's been so one-sided so far that it's funny to see so many backtracking on r/SquaredCircle after the nonstop Punk bashing recently.
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Unfortunately there's a lot of folks, including in this thread replying to your comment, for whom the Bucks can do no wrong, and they'll eat up any information from "unknown sources" that back up their preferred version of events, while rejecting anything that goes against it.

If the account you quote is true, then getting punched was entirely deserved. But that's a big if at the moment it's impossible to know what's true as there haven't been any actual statements other then "journalists" who are wrong more often than right, some of whom have clear bias in favour of one party involved.
 
You can't trust any source, especially dirtsheets. The Bucks/Elite named their finisher after Meltzer and he fangirls for them like a 13 year old. Punk undoubtedly has his lickspittles in wrestling media too.
 
Ekeke said:
Also, he said in the press conference if anyone has a problem with what hes saying go find him, his door is open... So why would the door be locked
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I don't think anyone said it was locked? Just that it was opened forcefully?

The Hilton said:
If the account you quote is true, then getting punched was entirely deserved. But that's a big if at the moment it's impossible to know what's true as there haven't been any actual statements other then "journalists" who are wrong more often than right, some of whom have clear bias in favour of one party involved.
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Yeah , once again I don't have any horse in the race (I'm a lapsed fan I guess? I'm more of a Hogan/Bret Hart/ Austin/ Rock era fan, I was already tapping out by the time Eddie / Benoit we're winning championships) so I'm just really keeping up to date on subreddits and forums (including this one) and there has been a clear bias in the reporting / fan reaction to the incident IMO

I don't necessarily believe the report from WrestleInc any more than I do the Meltzer stuff but it's interesting to watch the subreddit users question the narratives that they've believed/ have been pushed since the incident occured (some are holding the line though and going with "A locker room is no place for a dog" / "If CM Punk had have left his dog at home all of this could have been avoided" arguments )

Due to the fact I don't care about either party it's been pretty entertaining in a soap opera kind of way (like the cheating scandals in Chess/ Poker).
 
RacingClub said:
I don't think anyone said it was locked? Just that it was opened forcefully?



Yeah , once again I don't have any horse in the race (I'm a lapsed fan I guess? I'm more of a Hogan/Bret Hart/ Austin/ Rock era fan, I was already tapping out by the time Eddie / Benoit we're winning championships) so I'm just really keeping up to date on subreddits and forums (including this one) and there has been a clear bias in the reporting / fan reaction to the incident IMO

I don't necessarily believe the report from WrestleInc any more than I do the Meltzer stuff but it's interesting to watch the subreddit users question the narratives that they've believed/ have been pushed since the incident occured (some are holding the line though and going with "A locker room is no place for a dog" / "If CM Punk had have left his dog at home all of this could have been avoided" arguments )

Due to the fact I don't care about either party it's been pretty entertaining in a soap opera kind of way (like the cheating scandals in Chess/ Poker).
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I was a lapsed fan too, who became un-lapsed thanks to AEW, so I'm hugely disappointed as I like the Bucks/Kenny, and I love CM Punk, and I really enjoyed having a show that provided what they're all good at.

I agree the reaction has been pretty childish, and a lot of the "leaks" and "reporting" has been weaponised to get ahead of the narrative. But a lot of online folks would back up the Bucks no matter what they did, ironically they have their own cult of personality. You mention some examples of laughable arguments, but there's also the disingenuous ones like "Punk said his door is always open" as if that's an invite to storm through it, or "they took back that the door was kicked down" when it was actually clarified as a phrase, which still means opened aggressively. It's desperate stuff.
 
The Hilton said:
I was a lapsed fan too, who became un-lapsed thanks to AEW, so I'm hugely disappointed as I like the Bucks/Kenny, and I love CM Punk, and I really enjoyed having a show that provided what they're all good at.

I agree the reaction has been pretty childish, and a lot of the "leaks" and "reporting" has been weaponised to get ahead of the narrative. But a lot of online folks would back up the Bucks no matter what they did, ironically they have their own cult of personality. You mention some examples of laughable arguments, but there's also the disingenuous ones like "Punk said his door is always open" as if that's an invite to storm through it, or "they took back that the door was kicked down" when it was actually clarified as a phrase, which still means opened aggressively. It's desperate stuff.
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Couldnt care less about the hardy Boyz cosplayers, not my cup of tea, but there were neutral parties there and they back up the elite version of events if I'm not mistaken?

Makes me sick but @Ekeke is right. They opened an open door, just a shit a accident.
 
RacingClub said:
I don't think anyone said it was locked? Just that it was opened forcefully?



Yeah , once again I don't have any horse in the race (I'm a lapsed fan I guess? I'm more of a Hogan/Bret Hart/ Austin/ Rock era fan, I was already tapping out by the time Eddie / Benoit we're winning championships) so I'm just really keeping up to date on subreddits and forums (including this one) and there has been a clear bias in the reporting / fan reaction to the incident IMO

I don't necessarily believe the report from WrestleInc any more than I do the Meltzer stuff but it's interesting to watch the subreddit users question the narratives that they've believed/ have been pushed since the incident occured (some are holding the line though and going with "A locker room is no place for a dog" / "If CM Punk had have left his dog at home all of this could have been avoided" arguments )

Due to the fact I don't care about either party it's been pretty entertaining in a soap opera kind of way (like the cheating scandals in Chess/ Poker).
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You dont need to open a door forcefully if its not locked. Thats the point. From the start the Punk camp has said it was "kicked open" forcefully. Now 7 weeks later they add a dog. Fishy
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Couldnt care less about the hardy Boyz cosplayers, not my cup of tea, but there were neutral parties there and they back up the elite version of events if I'm not mistaken?

Makes me sick but @Ekeke is right. They opened an open door, just a shit a accident.
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It depends what you mean by "mistaken". Do you have a statement from any of those neutral parties you can point to? Or are you relying on the word of a wrestling journalist who happens to be extremely close with one of the parties to be neutral?

You don't just "open an open door" hard enough to knock teeth loose, and even then it's nothing that basic courtesy such as knocking wouldn't have solved. Something being an accident doesn't absolve whoever caused it from their carelessness or negligence in causing it.
 
Ekeke said:
You dont need to open a door forcefully if its not locked. Thats the point.
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I'm not interpreting that they broke they door down because it was locked, I'm under the impression they burst into the room with haste and hit the dog (from the article) basically because the door was opened with more force than required/ faster than a person would normally /usually enter a room and the dog was accidentally struck with enough force to injure it?

Maybe I explained myself wrong with "Forcefully" , maybe "Aggressively" would have been more appropriate.

Just because the situation didn't require force doesn't mean that it wasn't present.

People open/close doors with added force all the time during arguments.

They (possibly, because it's all speculation up until this point) opened an unlocked door (possibly) aggressively and the dog (possibly) got hit accidentally and it all kicked off from there (possibly).

As far as it seeming fishy , I don't really know because I have no less reason to believe this version of events rather than the others.
 
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