Things that have improved

JezChan said:
Christ the state of reading comprehension in this thread is laughable. Yes we know the team is playing poorly and in a terrible league position.

Saying that some things have improved doesn't mean that everything is fine and dandy - there can be improvements in some areas alongside severe deficiencies in others.
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I’ve had reliable reports that the tea and coffee has improved at Carrington. And they now do a very respectable Waldorf Salad.
 
SER19 said:
False. This whole tear it down and rebuild idea is a nonsense and any progress we make in the coming years with a new manager or otherwise will have to be built on something. Ie what the players any manager gets are doing well or decently.

Plenty of threads to go doom posting in
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We are currently a side playing significantly worse than the sum of its parts. More than likely due to a combination of coaching that isn't to the required level, extremely low confidence levels and then also some of the squad not being good enough.

I very much doubt much of anything about how we play now will have any bearing on what happens under a new manager.

There are brief moments when we play out from the back competently and beat the press. Then again this is still a mess because the midfield is so poorly set up so this will need to be tweaked anyway.

The thread doesn't make much sense other than just wanting to not feel miserable about a miserable situation and scraping for anything.

The thing to be positive about is that we are coming to the end of another cycle of a manager that hasn't worked out and we at the very least have a better squad than we are showing. Hopefully the Ashworth finds the right man.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
We are currently a side playing significantly worse than the sum of its parts. More than likely due to a combination of coaching that isn't to the required level, extremely low confidence levels and then also some of the squad not being good enough.

I very much doubt much of anything about how we play now will have any bearing on what happens under a new manager.

There are brief moments when we play out from the back competently and beat the press. Then again this is still a mess because the midfield is so poorly set up so this will need to be tweaked anyway.

The thread doesn't make much sense other than just wanting to not feel miserable about a miserable situation and scraping for anything.

The thing to be positive about is that we are coming to the end of another cycle of a manager that hasn't worked out and we at the very least have a better squad than we are showing. Hopefully the Ashworth finds the right man.
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So you think the squad has improved. Great, that's a good contribution and one I'd agree with
 
SER19 said:
So you think the squad has improved. Great, that's a good contribution and one I'd agree with
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I think it's fundamentally difficult to spend £250m on a squad and not at least add something worth having.

If that very obvious statement is what you're looking for then you're very welcome.
 
I'm confused by all the people who are against "anything positive"

Sure, don't be delusional, but if you can't do basic pros and cons, what are you even doing in a discussion like this? Just because you hate the guy, for fair reason, doesn't mean there hasn't been anything of merit or skill that he has, nor has shown.

Especially since the OP backs it up by statistics. 14th is a relatively bad position, yes. But the amount of clean sheets is better than the amount at the star of last season, yes.

Sure, go against the ETH-army, or whatever buzz-term you want to use next time for people who defend him (for reasons you either agree or disagree with), but a little nuance and respect to people with different perspectives never hurt anyone.

And the first few games did look more stable than the ones last season. You don't have to be delusional to see that. Just as it's clear to see that De Ligt has been bad or at least insecure for most of his games, that most players look shaky, especially the last 3-4-5 games, and that confidence seems very low.

Things are not looking good for ETH and they haven't for a long time. But he's delivered good coaching in plenty games and with plenty players, too. Unfortunately, more has been bad and it doesn't look good.

There's reasons the board chose to stick to ETH for at least a little longer, and there's reasons why little looks to become smaller, too.

I know it's calming to categorize things with hard borders and labels like "boohoo ETH bad" or "that's my manager" that were popular now and at the start of his tenure, respectively. But the world isn't that black and white, nor is his current status. Sorry to break it to you, but you don't hold all the answers, no matter how bad the current position on the table and distance to top 4 and 1 is. The situation sucks and everyone wants to see it improved, and even ETH would love that, whether he ends up doing so or doesn't. He's not some beelzebub yearning to eat this club from the inside.
 
JezChan said:
Christ the state of reading comprehension in this thread is laughable. Yes we know the team is playing poorly and in a terrible league position.
Saying that some things have improved doesn't mean that everything is fine and dandy - there can be improvements in some areas alongside severe deficiencies in others.
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Completely spot on. Hopefully most of the negative responses are down to emotion rather than intellect though, the emotion being understandable.
 
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OverratedOpinion said:
I think it's fundamentally difficult to spend £250m on a squad and not at least add something worth having.

If that very obvious statement is what you're looking for then you're very welcome.
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It depends on what you let go and the overall balance. I mentioned the squad in OP so glad you agree
 
SER19 said:
It depends on what you let go and the overall balance. I mentioned the squad in OP so glad you agree
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Well I think our squad has a hand full of good players, a lot of decent ones and some that aren't of the sufficient level. To be honest it's a similar review that I would have given nearly every year for ages.

We are Man Utd and we have spent hundreds and hundreds of millions, of course we have some good players that the right coach can get a tune out of.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Well I think our squad has a hand full of good players, a lot of decent ones and some that aren't of the sufficient level. To be honest it's a similar review that I would have given nearly every year for ages.

We are Man Utd and we have spent hundreds and hundreds of millions, of course we have some good players that the right coach can get a tune out of.
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Id say that this squad is the one post ferguson, that has the greatest potential for the current or a new manager. Still has key areas that need strengthening but should really be comfortably competing for top 4. Players like Yoro, Garnacho, Mainoo, Diallo, and Hojlund deserve not just experienced teammates which they have, but experienced teammates who are close to the top of their game. The profile for the next couple of signings should be mid-late twenties of well proven players. Young potential is great, but there has to be experience alongside them to help organise and manage things in-game
 
SER19 said:
Id say that this squad is the one post ferguson, that has the greatest potential for the current or a new manager. Still has key areas that need strengthening but should really be comfortably competing for top 4. Players like Yoro, Garnacho, Mainoo, Diallo, and Hojlund deserve not just experienced teammates which they have, but experienced teammates who are close to the top of their game. The profile for the next couple of signings should be mid-late twenties of well proven players. Young potential is great, but there has to be experience alongside them to help organise and manage things in-game
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We have a disjointed profile of midfielders, no striker who can score consistently and the jury is very much out on a lot of the young players.

We will see how good it is when a new manager gets his hands on it. I think much like most seasons since Sir Alex it will prove to have a good amount of quality and also decent amount that needs fixing.
 
Hey, here's one: We seem to be more dangerous from set pieces, don't we? De Ligt and Maguire have both gotten a goal from corners this season, and I think Eriksen's delivery has generally been good.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Hey, here's one: We seem to be more dangerous from set pieces, don't we? De Ligt and Maguire have both gotten a goal from corners this season, and I think Eriksen's delivery has generally been good.
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Maguire, De Ligt and Casemiro in there with Eriksen's delivery and we will be unstoppable.
 
A little positivity doesn't mean most of it hasn't been dire. When games are more closely analysed, except the last one, the simple opportunities we missed could have given us a different story all together. There have been so many chances we missed in games and INEOS are going to be looking at those and will know the manager had no hand in that, it's the players like Bruno shooting outside of their boots against palace when a simple shot from inside will do. Also, while we all know Erik Is not the answer, we also have to admit that draws and losses from games like the one against Palace pile up to depress the team further which has led to increasingly drab performances.
 
Nonameisknown said:
A little positivity doesn't mean most of it hasn't been dire. When games are more closely analysed, except the last one, the simple opportunities we missed could have given us a different story all together. There have been so many chances we missed in games and INEOS are going to be looking at those and will know the manager had no hand in that, it's the players like Bruno shooting outside of their boots against palace when a simple shot from inside will do. Also, while we all know Erik Is not the answer, we also have to admit that draws and losses from games like the one against Palace pile up to depress the team further which has led to increasingly drab performances.
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The opposition have missed a lot of chances also. Southampton could easily have been 1-0 up by the 30 minute mark.
 
Smaller squad and a lower average age. Good place for a rebuild.

But why do we still need to rebuild after so much money spent?
 
I usually take my own sandwiches when I go to Old Trafford but Im told the food sold there has improved.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
We have a disjointed profile of midfielders, no striker who can score consistently and the jury is very much out on a lot of the young players.

We will see how good it is when a new manager gets his hands on it. I think much like most seasons since Sir Alex it will prove to have a good amount of quality and also decent amount that needs fixing.
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I don't understand how anyone can say Yoro is an improvement to the team, he's literally played a couple fo friendlies.
First impressions of the other buys this season are not what we expected, none of them have set the world on fire.
 
I think Dalot has improved as a player and so has Garnacho.

Mazraoui is an improvement over AWB.

I thought that Martinez was an improvement at CB but that now seems to be questionable.

Other than those isolated cases I don't think that there has been any improvement over the previous manager. I don't think that the team has improved.
 
It's not due to EtH, but I think this squad has a lot of potential given how young some of our players are.

Adding VHP (very high potential) and HP (high potential) markers, like an FM view. Don't expect others to agree, but that's another debate.
Also adding a * for our key players, to show how much our starting XI can potentially improve.


Yoro, 18 - VHP
*Mainoo, 19 - VHP
*Garnacho, 20 - VHP
*Hojlund, 21 - HP
Diallo, 22 - HP
Zirkzee, 23 - Meh
*Ugarte, 23 - HP
Antony, 24 - No Potential
*De Ligt, 25 - VHP
*Dalot, 25 - HP
Mount, 25 - HP
*Licha, 26 - VHP
*Mazraoui, 26 - HP
*Rashford, 26 - ?

These players have a lot of years ahead of them, and there can be massive improvement both individually and collectively with better coaching. We'll look a very different side if even a quarter of the names on this list show their best in the next 2-3 years.

For comparison, this was the profile of some of the key players in the squad when Rangnick was being let go (could be one year older than the ages I'm posting):

Ronaldo, 38
Cavani, 35
Mata, 34
Matic, 33
De Gea, 31
Fred, 29
Maguire, 29
Varane, 29
Lingard, 29
Pogba, 29
Bailly, 28

Rangnick finished 6th with 59 points before he got sacked, EtH finished 8th with 60 points last season. Both are horrendous, but I know which squad I'd rather pick.
 
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One big thing that is much better is our set pieces. We've actually scored from a couple of corners already this year! We have been so bad at corners for years!
 
The Goalie is playing better (probably been our best player this season)

I struggle to think of anything beyond that
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
It's not due to EtH, but I think this squad has a lot of potential given how young some of our players are.

Adding VHP (very high potential) and HP (high potential) markers, like an FM view. Don't expect others to agree, but that's another debate.
Also adding a * for our key players, to show how much our starting XI can potentially improve.


Yoro, 18 - VHP
*Mainoo, 19 - VHP
*Garnacho, 20 - VHP
*Hojlund, 21 - HP
Diallo, 22 - HP
Zirkzee, 23 - Meh
*Ugarte, 23 - HP
Antony, 24 - No Potential
*De Ligt, 25 - VHP
*Dalot, 25 - HP
Mount, 25 - HP
*Licha, 26 - VHP
*Mazraoui, 26 - HP
*Rashford, 26 - ?

These players have a lot of years ahead of them, and there can be massive improvement both individually and collectively with better coaching. We'll look a very different side if even a quarter of the names on this list show their best in the next 2-3 years.

For comparison, this was the profile of some of the key players in the squad when Rangnick was being let go (could be one year older than the ages I'm posting):

Ronaldo, 38
Cavani, 35
Mata, 34
Matic, 33
De Gea, 31
Fred, 29
Maguire, 29
Varane, 29
Lingard, 29
Pogba, 29
Bailly, 28

Rangnick finished 6th with 59 points before he got sacked, EtH finished 8th with 60 points last season. Both are horrendous, but I know which squad I'd rather pick.
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Ronaldo turned 37 while Rangnick was here.
 
It's sad how most have jumped on the OP with such negativity.. Understandably, the mood around the club is very glum and for very good reason but why are people beating on a man that's already down and just looking for a ray of light in the darkness? You don't see it as the OP does? Then don't comment. There are so many posts in here that have deliberately ignored key parts of the OP and twisted it to make a mockery of it! Let's all just wallow in our pit of sadness and attack anyone who tries to see differently.. I understand people are at the end of their tether with the team but let's not start turning on one another.

There are definitely improvements from last season and we do have hope going forward like a few have mentioned. I.e Onana has improved, the teams makeup in terms of potential and age, our overall depth (still needs work though). So it's not all doom and gloom but it does seem like we unfortunately have to go through another managerial change before we start to bare fruits sadly. There was plenty of reason for optimism with the first couple of games for sure as well in the way that the team played. There was signs that it could/would click into place soon but it seems that isn't to be for the moment. (Hopefully changes in the backroom will spark that as it seems ETH doesn't have it in him to do so, sadly).
 
There is no consistency in the side. It's hard to evaluate the players with this play style or lack there of. I guess de Licht and Onana seem like they could become long term additions in a stronger team so I guess there is that, hoped for it, but didn't expect it going into the season.
 
Damon1559 said:
It's sad how most have jumped on the OP with such negativity.. Understandably, the mood around the club is very glum and for very good reason but why are people beating on a man that's already down and just looking for a ray of light in the darkness? You don't see it as the OP does? Then don't comment. There are so many posts in here that have deliberately ignored key parts of the OP and twisted it to make a mockery of it! Let's all just wallow in our pit of sadness and attack anyone who tries to see differently.. I understand people are at the end of their tether with the team but let's not start turning on one another.

There are definitely improvements from last season and we do have hope going forward like a few have mentioned. I.e Onana has improved, the teams makeup in terms of potential and age, our overall depth (still needs work though). So it's not all doom and gloom but it does seem like we unfortunately have to go through another managerial change before we start to bare fruits sadly. There was plenty of reason for optimism with the first couple of games for sure as well in the way that the team played. There was signs that it could/would click into place soon but it seems that isn't to be for the moment. (Hopefully changes in the backroom will spark that as it seems ETH doesn't have it in him to do so, sadly).
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Not even close, sorry. What you consider "negativity" is reality nothing else. "There are definitely improvements from last season and we do have hope going forward like a few have mentioned". Of course, this is just self-deception. Numbers never lie, and we're worse than ever. Did you actually know that in the last 19 league matches we got only ridiculous 23 points? So we're just as bad as we were last season. 23 points in 19 matches make 46 for a whole season. That usualy enough for the 15th position. Pathetic, and we have a 870 million euro squad. Searching for improvements while we are one of the worst teams in the league is absolut nonsense, sorry.
 
It's not an improvement when you buy a player like Ugarte and then don't give him time to bed in and get used to the Prem. Same with De Ligt.

These guys need game time, simple as that. They're never going to adapt sitting on the bench or only playing a third of the games.

Yet the irony is, ETH will happily continue to play absolute shite like Casemiro, Rashord, Bruno and Anthony.

Nothing has improved under ETH, he's like a piece of driftwood, floating in the Pacific, hoping to bump into dry land.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
It's not due to EtH, but I think this squad has a lot of potential given how young some of our players are.

Adding VHP (very high potential) and HP (high potential) markers, like an FM view. Don't expect others to agree, but that's another debate.
Also adding a * for our key players, to show how much our starting XI can potentially improve.


Yoro, 18 - VHP
*Mainoo, 19 - VHP
*Garnacho, 20 - VHP
*Hojlund, 21 - HP
Diallo, 22 - HP
Zirkzee, 23 - Meh
*Ugarte, 23 - HP
Antony, 24 - No Potential
*De Ligt, 25 - VHP
*Dalot, 25 - HP
Mount, 25 - HP
*Licha, 26 - VHP
*Mazraoui, 26 - HP
*Rashford, 26 - ?

These players have a lot of years ahead of them, and there can be massive improvement both individually and collectively with better coaching. We'll look a very different side if even a quarter of the names on this list show their best in the next 2-3 years.

For comparison, this was the profile of some of the key players in the squad when Rangnick was being let go (could be one year older than the ages I'm posting):

Ronaldo, 38
Cavani, 35
Mata, 34
Matic, 33
De Gea, 31
Fred, 29
Maguire, 29
Varane, 29
Lingard, 29
Pogba, 29
Bailly, 28

Rangnick finished 6th with 59 points before he got sacked, EtH finished 8th with 60 points last season. Both are horrendous, but I know which squad I'd rather pick.
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For potential first squad but if you were to pick a squad to get top 4 the next 2/3 seasons? Id pick squad 1 all day, every day. Plus Rashford, Amad, Garnacho, McTominay, Dalot etc would be in it anyway
 
Jock Steins Boots said:
It's not an improvement when you buy a player like Ugarte and then don't give him time to bed in and get used to the Prem. Same with De Ligt.

These guys need game time, simple as that. They're never going to adapt sitting on the bench or only playing a third of the games.

Yet the irony is, ETH will happily continue to play absolute shite like Casemiro, Rashord, Bruno and Anthony.

Nothing has improved under ETH, he's like a piece of driftwood, floating in the Pacific, hoping to bump into dry land.
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Bull crap
Cantona came to us mid season and made an immediate impression.
Same with Vidic and Evra.
It's all about attitude, a lot these players don't have the right mindset to play for United.
 
Matt Varnish said:
Bull crap
Cantona came to us mid season and made an immediate impression.
Same with Vidic and Evra.
It's all about attitude, a lot these players don't have the right mindset to play for United.
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They didn't. They were both pretty poor and it took time for them to adapt and improve.
 
Damon1559 said:
It's sad how most have jumped on the OP with such negativity.. Understandably, the mood around the club is very glum and for very good reason but why are people beating on a man that's already down and just looking for a ray of light in the darkness? You don't see it as the OP does? Then don't comment. There are so many posts in here that have deliberately ignored key parts of the OP and twisted it to make a mockery of it! Let's all just wallow in our pit of sadness and attack anyone who tries to see differently.. I understand people are at the end of their tether with the team but let's not start turning on one another.

There are definitely improvements from last season and we do have hope going forward like a few have mentioned. I.e Onana has improved, the teams makeup in terms of potential and age, our overall depth (still needs work though). So it's not all doom and gloom but it does seem like we unfortunately have to go through another managerial change before we start to bare fruits sadly. There was plenty of reason for optimism with the first couple of games for sure as well in the way that the team played. There was signs that it could/would click into place soon but it seems that isn't to be for the moment. (Hopefully changes in the backroom will spark that as it seems ETH doesn't have it in him to do so, sadly).
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Thanks Damon good post.

I do think the next 6 league games will decide and tell a huge amount. Poor results between now and December 3rd across all competitions and I think ten hag will be gone for real this time. If by some chance we get some good points on the board while not conceding many, people might look to some early season signs that there were some aspects improving
 
Matt Varnish said:
Bull crap
Cantona came to us mid season and made an immediate impression.
Same with Vidic and Evra.
It's all about attitude, a lot these players don't have the right mindset to play for United.
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Bull Crap back.

All of the players you quoted had one thing in common, they all played under Sir Alex Ferguson.

Ugarte and De Ligt have come in playing under Eric Ten Hag.

I rest my case.
 
SER19 said:
False. This whole tear it down and rebuild idea is a nonsense and any progress we make in the coming years with a new manager or otherwise will have to be built on something. Ie what the players any manager gets are doing well or decently.

Plenty of threads to go doom posting in
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My friend, you might be a 'glass half full' kind of guy. I get it.
But ETH is breaking negative records which our previous managers broke (and got fired for).
Last year was the worst start to an EPL season.
This season, ETH broke that negative record and this season is now our worst start to an EPL season.
We are in 14th.
We struggle to score goals in the EPL.
We have one of the most expensive teams ever assembled.

I'm sorry, but there are no positives. None.

What we are seeing now, is ETH's true level.
The EPL simply isn't for ETH and he should be replaced.

I think the board should announce that this season will be ETH's last season.
Then find a new manager NOW (not next year) and announce when the time comes, who will be managing us next season.
ETH should be allowed to finish this season off, as I don't think a caretaker manager would be any better.
 
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