Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich
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In my opinion he's a link man who can also play as a left sided midfielder. I can't see a CM with both Kagawa and Alcantara in. It may work if there's an enforcer in the mix but Carrick is not an enforcer.
While this is true, it would be very sad, if we get him now, and when he comes the best midfielder in the world (reaches his peak) he then fecks off to Barca and thus we strengthen considerably a rival. On the other side, if we get Fabregas, there is near 0 chance that he will want to leave again for Barca.
Anyway, I wouldn't complain even without those assurances if we sign him. It is very likely that he won't ask to go to Barca after 5 years, considering that he is not Catalan.
He's a central midfield player capable of operating in the "#10 role" and out wide if need be (but there shouldn't be any need for it were he to come here).
I know Fergie's gone now but we've never had an "enforcer" per say. I mean sure you could take a look at Keane and tell me I'm wrong, but Keane was so much more than just an enforcer it shouldn't even be a debate. Besides, in this case Kagawa would be operating behind the striker, more or less being the "tip" of the midfield where-as Carrick and Thiago would be played as "CMs". And yes, Carrick isn't a "destroyer" like Tiote, but you don't need to be one if you're as good as he is at reading the game. I'm not saying you won't find a more sound midfielder in terms of shielding the defense, but he doesn't need to chase the ball as much because he knows how to position himself defensively (most notably closing down passing lanes and intercepting passes). I don't know where the idea of those 3 "not working" is coming from. We've played Kagawa behind the striker with Carrick in midfield more than once, the only difference now would be that Carrick would have a partner with more quality.
Not to mention we might just end up with Kagawa playing on the left while drifting in with Rooney staying and playing that role.
I for one don't find any problem with either of the two set-ups:
Carrick------Thiago
-------Kagawa-----
Carrick------Thiago
-------Rooney-----
I agree with you that it'd be sad but it is what it is.Most footballers are so emotionally detached from the clubs they play for and sometimes rightly so, we all would want the players we sign to be like the likes of Scholes (in terms of loyalty)
I dont see Kagawa as a CM and honestly I hope we dont ever see him there as it probably end up in tears (ex Anderson). Kagawa is either a link man or an inside forward. His goal ratio at Dortmund clearly shows that.
I've read SAF's interview about the enforcer thing and honestly I couldnt resist from smiling. I struggle to understand what the likes of Butt, Philip Neville, Jones and OShea (in CM) brought on the plate apart from breaking the opponent's team rythm and winning the ball. However I agree with you, I wouldn't want us to end up with enforcer. In my opinion the right way to go is to play with two box to box midfielders similar to Carrick backing Alcantara and flanked by two hardworking/quality wingers/inside strikers such as Kagawa, Valencia and Rooney. RVP would convert the chances into goals as a lone striker.
I believe that the only way that Thiago and Kagawa can function together in CM is to play an enforcer behind them.
The system I am talking about is similar to this
----------Carrick---------Marchisio?---------------
--------------------Thiago----------------------------
Valencia/Zaha-------------------------Rooney/Kagawa
---------------------RVP-------------------------------------
Yep keep him here for 5 years then sell him back to Barca for twice the money, the jobs a good un
Great philosophy. Only sign the very es foreigners not average ones where Germans can do the job. An article I read had a German coach saying the same thing. YOUTH YOUTH YOUTH.
Most complete young cm followed by Gundogan imo. Wilshere is becoming overrated for me.
Wilshere is certainly not over rated. He's an immensely talented young player.
Quite. People get bored when an incredibly talented and promising young player is still incredibly talented and promising a year or two later, but hasn't yet 'proved' this talent and promise by being bought by Barcelona. So people start to have a new opinion by deciding that they're overrated. But Wilshere has only got better every time I've seen him play. I still rate him slightly higher than both Gundogan and Thiago - if you ignore injury concerns - and I think more people would if he played for us or Real Madrid rather than for Arsenal.
Yes, but Wilshere is not. Or at least, a lot more people underrate him than overrate him.
I imagine Bayern with Pep would be attractive for Thiago should he depart but I feel pretty confident Guardiola would only pursue players from the club that the board deemed surplus. So were he to leave, I still think the Premiership would be the likely destination - City or United, or Arsenal for that matter, I imagine.
Still hold out hope he stays on
Oh god, not fecking Arsenal. If they managed to have both Wilshere and Alcantara and we had to listen to another season of 'Manchester United's midfield worries' I might top myself.
This.
Seriously, if you're looking to make a name for yourself are you really going to join a club which is completely stocked in your position? A club which may even be deeper in that position than the club you're thinking of leaving because you're not getting enough playing time?
There are good reasons for Thiago to look past United (more money elsewhere, the bad weather and so on), but there are no good reasons for him to even think about Bayern at this time. That said, I still hold out hope, but I also had high hopes way back when we thought Robben was ours through last year when we thought we had Lucas Moura.
Do you really not see what is happening? He has a release clause of £15 fecking million. Barca have no say on whether they sell their star. Who in the world wouldnt want to pay just £15m for him and try and get him on loan. And if miraculously we do get him on loan, Xavi is going to be in a worse situation next year due to injuries. If he is struggling, Thiago will slot in well there. So whats to say he is going to stay at United after that one year? If he gets a chance at Barca, obviously he is going to take it. Also Thiago in my opinion is not going to be at Barca next season. The teams will not pass up an opportunity to get this lad for this cheap.
They have a say, they can offer a new contract.
Has there been a more perfect player available to us in the last 5+ years?
Position: CM. Crying out for one for years and years.
Age: Young at 22 but certainly not short of experience.
Talent: Huge. A great pedigree coming from a famed academy, not just an excellent pupil but a standout talent.
Value: At £15m he's available at less than half the price he's worth.
If we aren't actually in for him we'd better have a fecking good reason.
Position: CM. Crying out for one for years and years.
Age: Young at 22 but certainly not short of experience.
Talent: Huge. A great pedigree coming from a famed academy, not just an excellent pupil but a standout talent.
Value: At £15m he's available at less than half the price he's worth.
If we aren't actually in for him we'd better have a fecking good reason.
Oh god all of this x1000. There have been good midfielders available, players that we really should have gone for. But I don't think I could even make up a player more perfect for us.
Am I the only one who really doesn't see Thiago as 2 man central midfielder?
I know people made the same argument about Sneijder a couple of summers ago which opened up a whole can of worms but for me Sneijder is a number 10 capable of playing central midfield, Thiago from what I've seen of him is like quite a few Spanish midfield players in that he can play centre midfield as long as it's part of a 3 (like Silva & Iniesta) and when not played there is comfortable playing from the left in a front 3
If you were taking a midfielder from Barcelona to slot in next to Carrick I would of thought Xavi or Fabregas would be more natural fits
I know people made the same argument about Sneijder a couple of summers ago which opened up a whole can of worms but for me Sneijder is a number 10 capable of playing central midfield, Thiago from what I've seen of him is like quite a few Spanish midfield players in that he can play centre midfield as long as it's part of a 3 (like Silva & Iniesta) and when not played there is comfortable playing from the left in a front 3
If you were taking a midfielder from Barcelona to slot in next to Carrick I would of thought Xavi or Fabregas would be more natural fits
Eh? We play 3 in midfield too. We play an attacking mid who is a freakin' midfielder. So it is a midfield 3.
Those two last lines really hit home and there should not be any fecking reason on this planet as to why we ain't in for this lad. £15m for a player that would improve our first 11 is a no brainier and I hope the board are doing everything in there power to make this move happen. I believe DDG has been having a quiet word with him about United and IMO he wouldn't be doing that unless we wasn't in for him.
Sources of FC Barcelona have qualified that the club want to sign Thiago Alcantara will not only have to pay the 18 million euros of its clause Barca, but will also be forced to pay more to finance 3.7 million for the 21 percent of value added tax (VAT)
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20130...o-cuesta-21-7-millones-euros_54375662401.html
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20130...o-cuesta-21-7-millones-euros_54375662401.html
Exactly.
Really want him dont you summit?
After reading what people are saying in here about him, yes! Of course. Anyway, it isn't that far fetched that we have sent DDG to whisper sweet nothings in his ear.
So whats that then, £18.5ish? Still cheep IMO and no club will be put off by the extra 3.7 if this lad is really as good as I'm reading.
I don't understand why we would have to pay that additional amount? Is it bs? Barca sources riiiiigghhhhttt
If we paid that for Ashley fecking Young, we damn well better play that for a SPANISH MIDFIELDER
After reading what people are saying in here about him, yes! Of course. Anyway, it isn't that far fetched that we have sent DDG to whisper sweet nothings in his ear.
Yep, if we're in for him, DDG would have a role to play. no doubt about it.
Maybe is BS tbh, and if his release clause is 18m, wouldn't Barca be in breach of the contract if they start changing the goal posts?
If Wilshire wasn't always injured he'd be living up to his hype. One of the top few young talents in the world, If I could choose a midfielder to sign it would be Wilshire, provided he could manage to stay fit!
Those spanish release clauses are incredibly complicated. Bayern went to those problems when they signed Martinez last season as well, but found a way around it. I think the player has to trigger the clause by himself at the spanish FA to avoid those taxes. If the club does trigger the clause, you have to pay that additional fee. United should ask Bayern about it, I think we had several lawyers working for 2 weeks just to find a way to trigger that clause without getting into trouble.
Yeah, They paid Martinez somehow and then he paid the release clause himself if I remember correctly.
Thats a big if isn't it. So far it is a problem I am not even thinking about his injuries though I just don't see him as a player who has as much in his locked as Thiago or Gundogan yet though they have played more. His injuries have slowed down his development.
Read back in the thread a bit. About once a day someone else comes in and says what you have, and then everyone explains that 1) we don't play a two man midfield, and 2) whilst Thiago can play in the AM role, his best position is the Xavi role, which means he would slot perfectly in next to Carrick behind Kagawa. Enough people have now explained this over the course of the thread that I don't think there can be much argument about it.
He's young, he's short, he's Spanish and I saw him pass a ball in the final third on YouTube. We don't need another Number 10, we've got Kagawa and Rooney to play there
What date does the U21 tournament finish? And am I right that there's a date on which his buy-out clause jumps up to 90mil automatically, regardless of playing time?
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