Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

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A loan = staying at Barca or better yet going to Bayern Ruud if that's what you're thinking. We might as well not sign him in that case. It's bonkers.
 
Oh Thi-ah-gooo
You make my dick gooo
Hard, when I think of youuuu
In a midfield twooooo

With Michael Carrick
You and him can hit
Pass after pass
But it won't last

Because we'll play Jones instead,
Possession play is deaaad
30% of the ball
And we'll score the first goal

Then stand their like zombie
And and play long to van Persie
And all will be fine
Cause his finishing is sublime


Pexbo Laureate 2013.
 
Ruud10 said:
The objection to a loan deal is reasonable. After all, why would we polish a gem Barcelona gets to keep?

But if 1) we can't bring in an outrageous attacking central midfielder such as Fabregas or Modric for whatever reason and 2) if we believe Cleverley, Ando and whoever else we have on the squad now just isn't good enough to get us to a CL semifinal and 3) if we believe there's a chance that Barcelona still won't have room for Alcantara because they're so ridicuously stocked with talent and perhaps young Thiago might decide to keep the red shirt with the black button down collar on.

It's a Plan C, nothing else. Other clubs, big clubs, get the benefit of loan deals, so why not United? But you do have to wonder how Barcelona could possibly keep both Fabregas and Alcantara happy next season. It's mid-June and there's still plenty of time for vats of ink to be spilled sharing rumors.
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Not sure why everyone else is throwing a hissy about this. Sounds sensible to me. As you say, it's a firm Plan C - behind actually buying him, or actually buying someone else very good like him - but it's a reasonable one. The general objection seems to be that we're doing Barca a favour and getting nothing in return. Which is obviously rubbish - we'd be getting a very good midfielder this season, as opposed to sticking with the options we have (generally regarded as unsatisfactory.)

It's as if when it comes to buying players, people think the one thing that doesn't count for anything is... actually having those players! Which is madness.

And like you say, he wouldn't be the first loan signing to decide that actually he quite likes playing all the time, rather than sitting on the bench all the time. Loans between top teams are rare, but you'd think it would only make it more likely that he'd stay. After all, he'd be deciding between a top CL team where he was a definite starter, and a top CL team that he'd been forced to leave because there were so many brilliant players ahead of him in his position. It might be a good gamble on our part, because there's little reason to think that Xavi only has one year left or anything. The same problem will still exist next year.
 
Brightonian said:
Not sure why everyone else is throwing a hissy about this. Sounds sensible to me. As you say, it's a firm Plan C - behind actually buying him, or actually buying someone else very good like him - but it's a reasonable one. The general objection seems to be that we're doing Barca a favour and getting nothing in return. Which is obviously rubbish - we'd be getting a very good midfielder this season, as opposed to sticking with the options we have (generally regarded as unsatisfactory.)

It's as if when it comes to buying players, people think the one thing that doesn't count for anything is... actually having those players! Which is madness.

And like you say, he wouldn't be the first loan signing to decide that actually he quite likes playing all the time, rather than sitting on the bench all the time. Loans between top teams are rare, but you'd think it would only make it more likely that he'd stay. After all, he'd be deciding between a top CL team where he was a definite starter, and a top CL team that he'd been forced to leave because there were so many brilliant players ahead of him in his position. It might be a good gamble on our part, because there's little reason to think that Xavi only has one year left or anything. The same problem will still exist next year.
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The thing is, there may be real value in having a player of his quality just for one season if the alternative is playing Giggs or Ando because we have no one else to do the job. Admittedly, we easily picked up another prem trophy this season with a deficiency in central midfield and may be able to do so again, but the overriding goal going into next season has to be winning the Champions League. And if we're going to actually pull that off we can't have a hole in central midfield. That said, I'm not clear yet what Kagawa's role is going to be if we keep Rooney, but I suppose that's another thread for another day.

But I don't think it's in United's DNA to take on senior players on loan, other than the glorious run we had with Larsson a decade or so ago. And it's probably bad politics, if you can call it that, for Moyes to settle for a loan like this. Unless, of course, he's landed Ronaldo or Bale in first, in which case he could probably get away with playing one of us caftards!
 
My objection to it is that it has a small time feel about it. Loaning a quality player from a big club. We should be able to afford and attract our own quality players, invest in them and enjoy the fruits of that labour.
 
Pexbo said:
My objection to it is that it has a small time feel about it. Loaning a quality player from a big club. We should be able to afford and attract our own quality players, invest in them and enjoy the fruits of that labour.
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Agreed. Just ask yourself how many times it's actually happened (a genuine quality player loaned btwn 2 massive clubs, Yossi Benayoun doesn't count), it's just not how it works. Even a situation like Courtois at Atletico has the potential to end up in a mess.
 
Pexbo said:
My objection to it is that it has a small time feel about it. Loaning a quality player from a big club. We should be able to afford and attract our own quality players, invest in them and enjoy the fruits of that labour.
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It's a fair objection, and this honestly isn't intended to be sarky or a dig, but it seems to me that the best possible way to be small-time is to worry about seeming small-time. After all, if we really are a big club then whatever we do is something which big clubs do. If we're worried that it'll make us look like a little feeder club for Barcelona, then there's probably a more valid reason that that's already a potential worry - like them walking all over us in a couple of CL finals.

Yes, it doesn't happen often. But I'm honestly not sure that there's any reason it shouldn't. If we were constantly doing it, then maybe there'd be a problem there. But if, as Ruud suggested, it is very much a plan C after we've failed to get Thiago or someone equally good, then it would seem to serve all parties. He won't be holding back the development of a player who will one day be an established starter, because it's a Plan C, and we're working under the assumption that our current options aren't good enough.
 
Loaning the player would be a temporary short term solution. It's like having a broken window and boarding it up. It's like using a bandage to fix a burst pipe.

Would a season long loan really achieve anything for either party? Would we want to stump the progress of Cleverley to help another club's player make progress.
He has huge potential but nobody could say with confidence that he is ready to make a big impact straight away.. it would be a waste of time to loan him in the hope that he will adapt straight away and reach the heights we believe he can in the future - in just one season.

There are other options. There are other midfielders.
If he doesn't want to commit to us, and sees us as a stepping stone for his future career prospects with Barcelona - does he really deserve to be wearing the United shirt? Does he really deserve playing time at our club?

It would be pretty worthless to both parties, I doubt either would consider it.
 
Alock1 said:
Loaning the player would be a temporary short term solution. It's like having a broken window and boarding it up. It's like using a bandage to fix a burst pipe.

Would a season long loan really achieve anything for either party? Would we want to stump the progress of Cleverley to help another club's player make progress.
He has huge potential but nobody could say with confidence that he is ready to make a big impact straight away.. it would be a waste of time to loan him in the hope that he will adapt straight away and reach the heights we believe he can in the future - in just one season.

There are other options. There are other midfielders.
If he doesn't want to commit to us, and sees us as a stepping stone for his future career prospects with Barcelona - does he really deserve to be wearing the United shirt? Does he really deserve playing time at our club?

It would be pretty worthless to both parties, I doubt either would consider it.
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Pretty much sums up how I feel. It does not benefeit US long term. It allows Barca to keep a player and he gets more minutes than he would have gotten there.
 
So, some of the Spanish press reckon he's likely to remain at Barcelona, move to Bayern, or move to United, in that order?
Thought this fella wanted game time?
 
Thiago Alcantara will consider the options of joining either Manchester United or Bayern Munich if he leaves Barcelona this summer, reports suggest.
The 22-year-old's future at the Nou Camp has come under scrutiny in the past month after it emerged that his release clause has dropped to just €18m after he failed to feature in 60% of Barcelona's league games last campaign.
Alcantara is currently away with Spain's under-21 side at the European Championships and has thus far remained silent on his future. But given the midfielder's situation at the Nou Camp, Europe's elite have begun to circle, with El Mundo Deportivo suggesting Premier League champions United and Champions League winners Bayern are his two stand out options should he choose to part ways with the Catalan giants.
Pep Guardiola's arrival at the Allianz Arena could tempt Alcantara to move to new pastures. The former Barcelona manager gave the young midfielder his first team debut.
 
Bayern have just a strong midfield as Barça's. So, it'd be strange in that sense for him to move there.

However, if you were to leave Barça this summer, Bayern would probably be the only possible step up in quality. So I'm sure that's tempting.
 
IF he decides to leave, it's definitely us. He could easily be a regular starter for us. The problems which may occur with us is that he has to learn to play in a two man midfield, work under a relatively unknown manager, maybe the weather. Probably he feels bayern is more tempting because of their recent thrashing of barca and the CL win. If he has any brains he'll know we are the best destination for him. I've never felt so confident about a transfer. This simply has to happen, it's best for both parties
 
I don't see it myself. I think it's such a big culture change that if he doesn't opt to stay in Barca then he'll stay on the continent, you usually get round that by offering them insane wages.
 
100 said:
I don't see it myself. I think it's such a big culture change that if he doesn't opt to stay in Barca then he'll stay on the continent, you usually get round that by offering them insane wages.
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He'll save up a lot on the tax decrease in england(right?). And we can easily match his wages whatever it is unless it's extortionate like Sneijder. If it was just for the money, Barca could have given him a new contract and he could have continued there with lots of time on the bench. It's gonna be the same thing with bayern. They just have too many good players in his position. As of now, It's just united and bayern competing for him and we are clearly in the pole position simply because we can offer him lots of game time. Plus, we have a few spanish speakers. We have to be the most exciting prospect from Thiago's perspective.
 
Depends. Can shit play in a two-man midfield?

As for Thiago, I enjoy watching him drift around the midfield and constantly being an option for a pass.
 
So its Guardiola vs Moyes, the Treble winners vs the EPL champions. It would certainly be a difficult choice for the boy.

I hope that Moyes will send him videos about how Everton's AM used to play. That will surely tip the balance to our side.
 
ehsanul said:
I am worried Bayern might be too tempting for Thiago.
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Wouldn't worry about Bayern. Doubt we're interested in him and never read anything remotely believable in the german press.

Sammer is director of football at Bayern and already stated several times that he wants to build a team around the great young generation of german players. We will add a few foreign players in positions where no german player or youth player from our academy is available, but with Thiago that's not the case. If Guardiola was in charge of transfers, it might be different, but with Sammer in charge I doubt there's any truth to the rumours.
 
If he is frustrated with minutes at Barca then Bayern ain't exactly the best club to go, right? He would be starter for us, while will be competing for minutes with Bastian and Martinez at Bayern. Then you have Kroos, Gustavo, Gotze, Muller, etc. for other positions. Don't see the point of him going to them unless Pep wants to fix what is not broken.
 
Shinjisan said:
If he is frustrated with minutes at Barca then Bayern ain't exactly the best club to go, right? He would be starter for us, while will be competing for minutes with Bastian and Martinez at Bayern. Then you have Kroos, Gustavo, Gotze, Muller, etc. for other positions. Don't see the point of him going to them unless Pep wants to fix what is not broken.
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This was my thought too. Out of the fire and into the frying pan.
 
Shinjisan said:
If he is frustrated with minutes at Barca then Bayern ain't exactly the best club to go, right? He would be starter for us, while will be competing for minutes with Bastian and Martinez at Bayern. Then you have Kroos, Gustavo, Gotze, Muller, etc. for other positions. Don't see the point of him going to them unless Pep wants to fix what is not broken.
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Kroos was arguably their best player this season when fully fit, he'd have a very difficult job starting ahead of him.

Really he has a much better chance of becoming the maestro in our mediocre midfield than their already ridiculous good one.
 
Why would Bayern want him anyway?

They have Schweinsteiger, Martinez, Gustavo, Emre Can, Kroos, and possibly another im forgetting.

All of those are young and able to play for many years to come.

Not forgetting Kroos, Gotze, Muller all able to play the AMC position.

They are well stocked in midfielders, I really don't see him moving there.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Why would Bayern want him anyway?

They have Schweinsteiger, Martinez, Gustavo, Emre Can, Kroos, and possibly another im forgetting.

All of those are young and able to play for many years to come.

Not forgetting Kroos, Gotze, Muller all able to play the AMC position.

They are well stocked in midfielders, I really don't see him moving there.
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The only reason I could think is that Guardiola see's a lot in him and would like to bring him in as one of his players.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Why would Bayern want him anyway?

They have Schweinsteiger, Martinez, Gustavo, Emre Can, Kroos, and possibly another im forgetting.

All of those are young and able to play for many years to come.

Not forgetting Kroos, Gotze, Muller all able to play the AMC position.

They are well stocked in midfielders, I really don't see him moving there.
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So, what I said a couple of posts above yours. :p
 
devilish said:
So its Guardiola vs Moyes, the Treble winners vs the EPL champions. It would certainly be a difficult choice for the boy.

I hope that Moyes will send him videos about how Everton's AM used to play. That will surely tip the balance to our side.
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Sorry but I have to ask, do you think you're funny?
 
Everything's doom and gloom for Devilish; I do wonder how a supporter of Manchester United can end up like that...
 
100 said:
Everything's doom and gloom for Devilish; I do wonder how a supporter of Manchester United can end up like that...
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I think its optimistic of him to even think we are interested in a CM.
 
But sure there's not much point being in for one anyway with Moyes and that.
 
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