Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

Status
Not open for further replies.
So if we buy Thiago, where exactly will he play?

With Kagawa, Carrick, Cleverley (plus Januzaj, Powell and Anderson), how is Thiago going to improve us?

If we were to sign someone, why not some muscle and steel to do the dirty jobs?
 
George Owen said:
So if we buy Thiago, where exactly will he play?

With Kagawa, Carrick, Cleverley (plus Januzaj, Powell and Anderson), how is Thiago going to improve us?

If we were to sign someone, why not some muscle and steel to do the dirty jobs?
Click to expand...

Yes because you start Anderson, Januzaj and Powell in all the big games right now? Thiago will improve us simply because he is better than the midfield options we have right now bar Carrick. The first one might be sold. He has not lived up to his potential and the later two are not close to first team football. Thiago is and will be a starter if he comes here because he is already better than Cleverley. Plus with all the news coming we might not sign only Thiago. Either Strootman or Fellaini look likely.
 
Thiago better than Cleverley?

i dont think so. He looks good in Barcelona tiki taka... but there is no way to be sure he will fit our style. I wouldnt complain if we were talking about Fabregas.
 
George Owen said:
Thiago better than Cleverley?

i dont think so. He looks good in Barcelona tiki taka... but there is no way to be sure he will fit our style. I wouldnt complain if we were talking about Fabregas.
Click to expand...

Well there is no way to be sure ANYONE we sign will be able to adapt to the league or fit our style. What exactly is 'our style' by the way? You buy players due to the potential they possess and how they might turn out to be. In my opinion, I would rather start Thiago ahead Cleverley in the big games if he came here.
 
George Owen said:
Thiago better than Cleverley?

i dont think so. He looks good in Barcelona tiki taka... but there is no way to be sure he will fit our style. I wouldnt complain if we were talking about Fabregas.
Click to expand...

Of course he's better than Cleverley. You can never be sure how a player from a different league will fit our team, you can't even be sure with PL players to be honest, but Thiago's potential is on a completely different level compared to Cleverley's.
 
George Owen said:
Thiago better than Cleverley?

i dont think so. He looks good in Barcelona tiki taka... but there is no way to be sure he will fit our style. I wouldnt complain if we were talking about Fabregas.
Click to expand...

:lol: With all due respect to cleverley, he will never be anywhere near Thiago, now or in the future. Thiago is one of the most promising midfielders in world football, and one of the most talented ones at that. Cleverley could never even dream of doing some of the stuff Thiago is capable of. Its not even close really. Comparing the two is like you're comparing Ashley Young to Neymar. It's not even close.
 
George Owen said:
Thiago better than Cleverley?

i dont think so. He looks good in Barcelona tiki taka... but there is no way to be sure he will fit our style. I wouldnt complain if we were talking about Fabregas.
Click to expand...

:lol:

I'm as big a fan of Cleverley as anyone but Thiago could fail to fit in here and still be better than Tom. He's one of the top two young central midfielders in the world.
 
I'm starting to get hopes. That's not good, last time this happened I didn't sleep well for two months. Sneijder, Hazard, Nasri, Modric, Banega, Defour, Jovetic. The list is long.
 
RDCR07 said:
Well there is no way to be sure ANYONE we sign will be able to adapt to the league or fit our style. What exactly is 'our style' by the way? You buy players due to the potential they possess and how they might turn out to be. In my opinion, I would rather start Thiago ahead Cleverley in the big games if he came here.
Click to expand...

Is not the slow tempo, short passing and possession football of Barcelona... that's for sure.

I know Thiago is class, and can be a very good signing for any team out there, but we have bigger priorities in midfield. We need a defensive midfielder before even thinking of getting a more offensive midfielder.

And Cleverley has been a great box to box midfielder for us... i dont think Thiago is even close to have the workrate, stamina and sacrifice of Cleverley. I hope Moyes has big plans for Cleverley, because i my eyes bleed when i read some of the opinions here.
 
George Owen said:
Is not the slow tempo, short passing and possession football of Barcelona... that's for sure.

I know Thiago is class, and can be a very good signing for any team out there, but we have bigger priorities in midfield. We need a defensive midfielder before even thinking of getting a more offensive midfielder.

And Cleverley has been a great box to box midfielder for us... i dont think Thiago is even close to have the workrate, stamina and sacrifice of Cleverley. I hope Moyes has big plans for Cleverley, because i my eyes bleed when i read some of the opinions here.
Click to expand...

:lol:
We don't need a defensive midfielder urgently Carrick fills that role and against teams with specific threats Jones can man mark. Thiago is simply a more talented player than Cleverley he does everything better than him and he is more than willing to get stuck in. Cleverley's ceiling is not that high in all honesty he will be a good squad player. Cleverley does have those strengths but Thiago is not a lazy player if that is what you are trying to suggest.

Suggesting Thiago won't be good because he plays in Barca's system is odd seeing as they have one of the harder midfields to play well in hence why a player of Fabregas' quality is struggling there. Plus he has a complete all round game. I'm assuming you haven't watched him much because Cleverley would tell you Thiago is a better player himself.
 
George Owen said:
Is not the slow tempo, short passing and possession football of Barcelona... that's for sure.

I know Thiago is class, and can be a very good signing for any team out there, but we have bigger priorities in midfield. We need a defensive midfielder before even thinking of getting a more offensive midfielder.

And Cleverley has been a great box to box midfielder for us... i dont think Thiago is even close to have the workrate, stamina and sacrifice of Cleverley. I hope Moyes has big plans for Cleverley, because i my eyes bleed when i read some of the opinions here.
Click to expand...

I agree we need another defensively strong midfielder as cover/backup for carrick as well as an option if we need to be extra solid but a creative midfielder would be good a well. Not sure how you can say clev has been great, he's had a decent season with some good moments but also some poor ones. He's got potential bu I don't think it's that clear cut that he couldn't do with some competition. Move ando on, get in a creative player and a more defensive one and that's pretty perfect for me.
 
George Owen said:
Is not the slow tempo, short passing and possession football of Barcelona... that's for sure.

I know Thiago is class, and can be a very good signing for any team out there, but we have bigger priorities in midfield. We need a defensive midfielder before even thinking of getting a more offensive midfielder.

And Cleverley has been a great box to box midfielder for us... i dont think Thiago is even close to have the workrate, stamina and sacrifice of Cleverley. I hope Moyes has big plans for Cleverley, because i my eyes bleed when i read some of the opinions here.
Click to expand...

Our team is screaming out for a playmaker ever since Scholes decided to call it quits the first time. There is no creativity in midfield and Carrick can only do so much. So I would say buying an offensive minded/playmaker is equally as important as buying a defensive minded midfielder.
 
George Owen said:
come on... he is 22 and barely gets a game for Barcelona.
Click to expand...

Firstly... Barcelona. That's Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets. For god's sake think before you post.

Secondly, 'barely gets a game'. In the 2011/12 season, at the age of 21, Thiago started 38 games, and came on as a sub in 16. That's more than Cleverley has had in any season at United.

You're talking out of your arse.
 
Brightonian said:
Firstly... Barcelona. That's Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets. For god's sake think before you post.

Secondly, 'barely gets a game'. In the 2011/12 season, at the age of 21, Thiago started 38 games, and came on as a sub in 16. That's more than Cleverley has had in any season at United.

You're talking out of your arse.
Click to expand...

And you didn't mention the Fabregas fella, you know that player who was the best midfielder in England (possibly in the world without Barca) just 2 years ago.

Thiago has been impressive. Personally I would prefer us to sign him rather than Fabregas, though I would be very happy if we sign either of them.
 
Revan said:
And you didn't mention the Fabregas fella, you know that player who was the best midfielder in England (possibly in the world without Barca) just 2 years ago.

Thiago has been impressive. Personally I would prefer us to sign him rather than Fabregas, though I would be very happy if we sing either of them.
Click to expand...

Yep, same. Either would be an absolute dream come true. At the moment I'm leaning slightly towards Thiago because it sounds like he'd be a lot cheaper, and he's younger. Not only would we get more years out of him, but if he was a success here he'd feel more like a United player, whereas Fabregas would always be the Arsenal-Barcelona star who we bought.

Minor differences, of course. It's a crushing pincer movement, in muppet terms. Impossible not to secretly hope that we might get one of them when both are rumoured. When we fail to get either its going to be so crushing.
 
I think we could definitely look to rotate between Carrick, Cleverley, Thiago and a new DM for the 2 CM spots next season, with our current departures and Anderson presumably following, I think it would make sense and an improvement on our current situation.
 
Clearly wumming. I refuse to believe not.
 
If you actually watch Thiago play a bit, you will realize how talented he is. I think it's disgusting that he doesn't get enough game time at Barcelona. Even with Xavi and Iniesta there.

And that's not a pop at you or anything, I'm just guessing that you may not have been able to see him play a lot. I used to think people over-rated him, and then I saw him play.
 
I assume it must be sub appearances he's mainly getting? He has a decent amount of appearances considering the competition he faces, especially during Guardiola's reign
 
George Owen said:
come on... he is 22 and barely gets a game for Barcelona.
Click to expand...

Cleverley's almost 24 and has less appearances for us this season, and last season then Thiago has for Barca. But of course our midfield is definitely much more difficult than that one. I mean, Giggs in center midfield over Xavi, Fabregas and Iniesta all day long.
You can't actually be serious with this, can you?
 
LawCharltonBest said:
If you actually watch Thiago play a bit, you will realize how talented he is. I think it's disgusting that he doesn't get enough game time at Barcelona. Even with Xavi and Iniesta there.

And that's not a pop at you or anything, I'm just guessing that you may not have been able to see him play a lot. I used to think people over-rated him, and then I saw him play.
Click to expand...

Im not saying he is over rated... he is a fecking good player, excellent technique, love his passing abilities and i would love if we buy him just for the sake of having a spanish midfielder maestro on our team. Specially if Rooney leaves so we can rest Kagawa.

But seriously, considering our style of play (opposite to Barcelona style) and our current midfield:

Carrick---Cleverley
----Kagawa-------

will he improve us a lot? i dont think so... (rotation wise, for sure he will)

But for that money, we can try and go for a world class DM and that is a proper upgrade to our midfield. We have young talented CMs READY to fecking start playing in our first 11. Why dont gave them a chance before going crazy out there on the market?


ps. The thing is Cleverley is heavily underrated... He deserve better than most of the comments here. I really hope Moyes use him wisely. And no, im not him nor his mom or Dad. :lol:


ps2. Anyways... you know what... i wish we signed him, really, (or Fabregas or maybe would be better to go crazy for that kid olivier torres haha) but first, lets secure a DM monster.
 
bosnian_red said:
Cleverley's almost 24 and has less appearances for us this season, and last season then Thiago has for Barca. But of course our midfield is definitely much more difficult than that one. I mean, Giggs in center midfield over Xavi, Fabregas and Iniesta all day long.
You can't actually be serious with this, can you?
Click to expand...

well, thats Sir Alex way... has nothing to do with Cleverley quality.

Ask Pogba about that...

ps. that comment was on response to someone who said he was the second best young central midfielder on the world... right now, thats not true.
 
Hate to break it to you lads but I really think this boy is Madrid bound. Nothing more than a hunch but we're talking about release clauses here so Barca have no control over where he goes. The reports from Spain make it seem the boy is crushed by his treatment from Barca.

Let's prepare ourselves for the signing of Marouane Fellaini
 
Platato said:
Hate to break it to you lads but I really think this boy is Madrid bound. Nothing more than a hunch but we're talking about release clauses here so Barca have no control over where he goes. The reports from Spain make it seem the boy is crushed by his treatment from Barca.

Let's prepare ourselves for the signing of Marouane Fellaini
Click to expand...

I think we'll survive your hunch. ;)
 
Madrid is a massive risk if the lad is looking for more game-time, I know Madrid aren't stacked in the midfield department but it's always been a gamble for a young talents like Thiago. He also has a brother at Barca, I reckon he'll stay.
 
Platato said:
Hate to break it to you lads but I really think this boy is Madrid bound. Nothing more than a hunch but we're talking about release clauses here so Barca have no control over where he goes. The reports from Spain make it seem the boy is crushed by his treatment from Barca.

Let's prepare ourselves for the signing of Marouane Fellaini
Click to expand...

No! fecking stop it!
 
George Owen said:
But seriously, considering our style of play (opposite to Barcelona style) and our current midfield:

Carrick---Cleverley
----Kagawa-------

will he improve us a lot? i dont think so... (rotation wise, for sure he will)
Click to expand...

First of all you need to let go of will he fit our style of play. No one, I repeat no one in the world play like Barcelona. So no matter where he goes the football being played is going to be different. Players are adaptable. They can chop and change. More often than not, its a case of player being played in a different position that is the problem rather than him playing a different style of football.

He has shown that he can be a success in a midfield that requires so much work. It is so much more than just playing a 5 yard pass and going for the return pass. It hard work. The way Barca press is amazing and I think I read somewhere that if they lose possession, they try and get it back within 5-10 seconds. They cant always do it but still have a pretty high success rate. Thats how they train.

Again with this will he improve us thing? Of course he is going to improve us naturally because he is a better player. If you bring in someone better than you have already, then you are going to get better.

But for that money, we can try and go for a world class DM and that is a proper upgrade to our midfield. We have young talented CMs READY to fecking start playing in our first 11. Why dont gave them a chance before going crazy out there on the market?
Click to expand...

His release clause is around £15m. That in today's market is cheap when you are getting a player of Thiago's quality. We are getting splashing the cash or going crazy in the market at that price. We arent spending £30-35m on Thiago. And £15m aint going to get you a world class DM that you so highly desire.

Also these young talented midfielders, aka Powell and Januzaj and Daehli, we have are no where near ready for the first team next season. Youngsters need to be slowly introduced into first team football to aid their development. Not just thrown in and be asked to fend for themselves. They all have a future here at United but they still need experience. Thiago is ready right now.

Its like the whole RVP situation. We had Welbeck, Hernandez and Rooney as our strike options at the beginning of the summer. We brought Kagawa to play behind Rooney as first choice. But when RVP became available, a lot of people were saying we are already stocked in the striker department and we dont need another one. Look how everything turned out. Even Welbeck played a huge role in the first team even though he wasnt employed as an out and out striker.
 
Dont know if this has been posted but...

Speaking to Sport, Perez said Los Blancos could also make a move for Thiago.

He is quoted as saying: “If Barca aren’t interested in Thiago, and if our new coach is interested, we would like to sign him.”
Click to expand...
 
George Owen said:
Im not saying he is over rated... he is a fecking good player, excellent technique, love his passing abilities and i would love if we buy him just for the sake of having a spanish midfielder maestro on our team. Specially if Rooney leaves so we can rest Kagawa.

But seriously, considering our style of play (opposite to Barcelona style) and our current midfield:

Carrick---Cleverley
----Kagawa-------

will he improve us a lot? i dont think so... (rotation wise, for sure he will)

But for that money, we can try and go for a world class DM and that is a proper upgrade to our midfield. We have young talented CMs READY to fecking start playing in our first 11. Why dont gave them a chance before going crazy out there on the market?


ps. The thing is Cleverley is heavily underrated... He deserve better than most of the comments here. I really hope Moyes use him wisely. And no, im not him nor his mom or Dad. :lol:


ps2. Anyways... you know what... i wish we signed him, really, (or Fabregas or maybe would be better to go crazy for that kid olivier torres haha) but first, lets secure a DM monster.
Click to expand...

Ok, a number of points there to address.

1. You've mentioned 'Barcelona's style' a couple of times now. If you'd watched Thiago much, you'd know that he clearly has what it takes to play outside of that style. Yes, he is technically gifted and has the quick feet and awareness to keep up with Barca's most intense tiki-taka. But he also has a stunning range of passing, an instinct to attack with directness, and the sort of close control and dribbling skills which are in demand in any system.

2. You mention that we need a world class DM who is a 'proper upgrade' to our midfield, and intimate that Thiago would not be a 'proper upgrade'. You clearly rate Cleverley incredibly highly. But I doubt even you think he is a better midfielder than Carrick. Given that Carrick is our more defensive midfielder and Cleverley the more attacking, how is a DM more likely to be an upgrade on Carrick than a box-to-box CM on Cleverley? And make no mistake, Thiago is world class.

The requirement for a Cleverley replacement is clearly higher than the requirement for someone who plays in Carrick's position. Especially since it seems very likely that Anderson is off.

4. I used to say the same thing as you about Cleverley not getting the proper chance that he deserved. At the start of this season, it was maddening to see Giggs and Scholes and Jones starting over him in CM. Then he got the job, and while not shining quite like he did at the start of the 2011/12 season, he still formed comfortably our best midfield partnership with Carrick. Then, however, he inexplicably took his foot off the gas. He stopped working so hard, he had less of the energy that makes him so useful, and his performances became passive and average at best. As a result, he eventually dropped out of contention. I honestly don't think he has any excuses this time. He is simply not good enough to be our first choice in midfield, despite being given a good chance to prove otherwise. Thiago, on the other hand, is an indisputably world class midfielder. There's simply no contest.

5. There is no room for a world class 'DM monster' in our side. Are you going to drop Carrick, arguably our best and most important player this season? No. DM is not the position in our squad that needs a world class addition, CM is.

6. I challenge you to name two or three midfielders of Thiago's age who could have got 38 starts and 16 sub appearances in CM for Barcelona at the age of 21. I'd contend that Jack Wilshere is the only sure one, and that's imagining he hadn't missed so much football with injuries. You could argue for Gundogan, but it would be generous. He wasn't nearly as good last year as he has been this season.

100 said:
I assume it must be sub appearances he's mainly getting? He has a decent amount of appearances considering the competition he faces, especially during Guardiola's reign
Click to expand...

As above, 38 starts and 16 subs in Guardiola's final season.
 
I agree for the most part there Brightonian, but he's not world class yet. Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and at a stretch Fabregas are but Thiago isn't just yet. He's a cert to become one once he gets regular first team football though. Also Thiago's defensive capabilities are being very underrated here. He's a very capable tackler, and does his fair share of defensive work when he needs to. The only thing Cleverley might offer more than Thiago would be more work rate, but even at that Thiago is still good.

Also I don't think there would be much risk if we got him. He's on the verge of being a regular in Barca's midfield, which is the best midfield in the world. He would instantly improve us and slot into a position we've been crying out for for the last 5 years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.