Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

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Varun_Utd said:
You offer the release clause and the club has to let you talk with the player. Thats how it should work.

All said and done, I think its naive to believe that clubs first haggle about fees before even knowing whether the player in question would be willing to make the switch. First point of contact must be the player's agent to make sure that the player's actually interested in making the move before going on to discuss fee with the club in question.
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Yeah, I think tapping up rules are totally outdated, even if they try to defend a good principle.

Mind, the release clause in theory is a penalty imposed on a player for a breach of contract. In practice, since they're beyond the means of most players we talk about them like if they're a "forced to sell" value. When AVB went to Chelsea (against Porto wishes) they had absolutely no business with us. They simply agreed terms with him and handed him a 15m check that he sent to us through his lawyer. I don't think United has to deal with Barcelona at all. Which, again, conflicts with the tapping-up rules. Rather absurd.
 
jojojo said:
Once more on tax and the release clause. It's mostly a red herring, that exists purely because the release clause is seldom enforced (for various reasons including inter-club relationships and debt collection mechanisms) so when it is, the lawyers and tax office have to do the deal and check every bit of it against current Spanish and EU contract law, FIFA and UEFA codes of conduct and Spanish tax legislation.

The potential tax burden arises if the player pays the clause, which is what the contract appears to suggest. In reality, Bayern were given approval by Martinez to pay money to the Spanish league, who could then pay the money to Athletic as compensation for the loss of a contracted service.

This article summarises the eventual rulings in layman's terms (but in Spanish!): http://www.diariocritico.com/deportes/futbol/javi-martinez/417865

If the ruling had been that the player must pay the money himself (using money handed to him by the buying club) there were suggestions that an income tax liability could have arisen - doubling the price. This article by a Spanish sports law firm explains why the ruling could have been that there would be a VAT liability (of 21%) - but still no income tax. It was written prior to the final deal being done.
http://www.iusport.es/images/stories/opinion/guillermo-amilibia-tributacion-javi-martinez.pdf
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It is very likely the Martínez precedent has laid down clearly how to deal with this, it's still a complete mindfeck to navigate and get to grips with. Particularly when you have a club at the other end who want to put obstacles and have good enough leverage to get the taxman to feck about with you throwing, you said it, red herrings.

Point is, it is way more complex than a normal transfer where both clubs have agreed on a fee and are happy to see the deal go through. Some get the impression a release clause gets you to bypass the pesky detail of agreeing a fee, I reckon that actuaally makes the conclusion of the deal take longer.
 
jojojo said:
Once more on tax and the release clause. It's mostly a red herring, that exists purely because the release clause is seldom enforced (for various reasons including inter-club relationships and debt collection mechanisms) so when it is, the lawyers and tax office have to do the deal and check every bit of it against current Spanish and EU contract law, FIFA and UEFA codes of conduct and Spanish tax legislation.

The potential tax burden arises if the player pays the clause, which is what the contract appears to suggest. In reality, Bayern were given approval by Martinez to pay money to the Spanish league, who could then pay the money to Athletic as compensation for the loss of a contracted service.

This article summarises the eventual rulings in layman's terms (but in Spanish!): http://www.diariocritico.com/deportes/futbol/javi-martinez/417865

If the ruling had been that the player must pay the money himself (using money handed to him by the buying club) there were suggestions that an income tax liability could have arisen - doubling the price. This article by a Spanish sports law firm explains why the ruling could have been that there would be a VAT liability (of 21%) - but still no income tax. It was written prior to the final deal being done.
http://www.iusport.es/images/stories/opinion/guillermo-amilibia-tributacion-javi-martinez.pdf
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We need a transfer FAQ and post this in there.
 
antohan said:
I find it funny how it has become the norm to assume the entire midfield problem is down to SAF not sorting it so his heir could.

That said, I doubt Moyes will start the season with our current midfield. More like we will sign Fellaini than Thiago though, particularly if stopping Michael Kightly is the concern.
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I didn't say it was deliberate. It just happens to be that there is a gaping hole in our midfield, SAF pretty much admitted it was a problem area last preseason when he said:

But we do have an issue in central midfield, there is no doubt about that because getting a Scholes or a Carrick is very difficult these days.
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And he left it unsolved.

As for the Fellaini comment, I shan't bite.
 
Donaldo has been thread banned, and not the merciful thread ban where you can still view the thread.

I guess he'll have to read about us signing Thiago on teletext now.
 
Must be a sort of self-requested ban. He couldn't handle it anymore.
 
Arruda said:
Yeah, I think tapping up rules are totally outdated, even if they try to defend a good principle.

Mind, the release clause in theory is a penalty imposed on a player for a breach of contract. In practice, since they're beyond the means of most players we talk about them like if they're a "forced to sell" value. When AVB went to Chelsea (against Porto wishes) they had absolutely no business with us. They simply agreed terms with him and handed him a 15m check that he sent to us through his lawyer. I don't think United has to deal with Barcelona at all. Which, again, conflicts with the tapping-up rules. Rather absurd.
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Yep, does seem so. Tapping up rules are just for the books anyways.
 
Colin129 said:
This is bullshit, lock the thread & start getting excited about someone else.

If he wanted to come to United then it would be sorted, if he doesn't then forget him. As he appears to be dithering I think he'd prefer to stay at Barca.
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Or we could just thread ban you as well and save you the trouble of entering the thread
 
Colin129 said:
This is bullshit, lock the thread & start getting excited about someone else.

If he wanted to come to United then it would be sorted, if he doesn't then forget him. As he appears to be dithering I think he'd prefer to stay at Barca.
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If he joins can we all PM you with pictures of thiago?
 
Colin129 said:
This is bullshit, lock the thread & start getting excited about someone else.

If he wanted to come to United then it would be sorted, if he doesn't then forget him. As he appears to be dithering I think he'd prefer to stay at Barca.
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Why? How many more transfers will take place between now and the end of the window? Why would this one be done already? Because we've obsessed over it for so long already?
 
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