"It's a deal, it's a steal, it's the sale of the fecking century!" In fact, feck it United, I think I'll keep it!
-Barca
-Barca
Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich
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Well I've bought 3 homes, on average I'd say from looking (at about 7-9 houses per home bought) to contract signed was 4 days. There was a 4th home, found and signed a contract in a day but, wife decided a couple days later was too far. I've also been involved in engagements that resulted in a multi-year, multi-million dollar deal that were signed after a week of workshops and other deals for a mere $200k project taking months of back and forth before it finally getting the go ahead.
I don't think you were trying to make me look like an idiot that has no idea how things work in the world but, were more to try and point out that deals take time to make, whether it's buying a house or a club buying a player which is even more complicated. Don't disagree with you there. I get some deals happen in a day, others could take weeks or months or just never happen.
Having the opinion that on this particular one where to me we've seem to have dropped the ball on getting it resolved one way or another by now does not equate to me saying the club is rubbish at deals either. It's just a feeling I have on this particular one and not an indictment on the club as a whole.
I doubt his advisors care if they benefit financially. After all, if he is not a success at United and leaves during his contract, his "advisors" will pick up even more commission.
I do find it funny that his old man states his ignorance of Thiago's decision...you simply have to say he is being economical with the truth.
I haven't posted in this thread often and I really can't be arsed reading several million posts but I have a couple of questions that maybe one of you would be kind enough to answer ....
1. Have we made a bid
2. Have United at any stage confirmed interest.
3. Have we formally had permission to talk to him to agree personal terms?
1. Have we made a bid
2. Have United at any stage confirmed interest.
3. Have we formally had permission to talk to him to agree personal terms?
1. No
2. No
3. No
2. No
3. No
1) Barca said we haven't.
2) No, but we allegedly had a bid rejected lat year.
3)He has a release clause, we could agree term with him and then deal with the club.
Nobody knows for sure as is the case with most of our transfers.
Safe bet is on us being in talks but it's not something someone can claim to know for sure.
The Sport stuff is complete rubbish, they seem to the Spanish equivalent of the Daily Star, Rooney for Thiago + Villa? That's got to set alarm bells ringing when it comes to the validity of their claims.
Ronaldinho... Was he coming ?
Thanks ER ...... wasn't sure about the release cause bit as he's still a player under contract to Barcelona
I'm past caring with this one. Spazinho and his lad can go feck themselves.
Release clause activation in Spain always takes forever. Bilbao made Bayern sweat last year bringing the IRS into it and making up all sorts of shit about how the buying club had to pay tax on the release clause. Something along the lines of: if the club pays they have to pay VAT (never made any sense to me, but VAT kept being bandied about); if the player activates the clause they have to pay the cash amount, which means the buying club have to pay a lot more so that 18M are available post-tax.It's not just working out which is the most cost-effective but also that depending on how the contract was laid out only the player paying the release clause is possible. Suffice to say I wouldn't give 18M+TAX to Mazinho expecting him to use it to pay off Barca...
With Spain in the state they are in and the public very interested in public finances, even a hint of untapped revenue streams are a minefield. I wouldn't be surprised if even after hiring top counsel it all still looks dodgy as feck. Then you have to arrive at a decision, explain the entire thing to the Glazers, the new man in charge has to put his neck on the line on something really weird...
I agree this is the sort of deal that needs to be executed quickly. It hasn't, and I can also see why. I wouldn't be surprised if it dies a slow death.
Clearly nothing like an FM release clause
With Spain in the state they are in and the public very interested in public finances, even a hint of untapped revenue streams are a minefield. I wouldn't be surprised if even after hiring top counsel it all still looks dodgy as feck. Then you have to arrive at a decision, explain the entire thing to the Glazers, the new man in charge has to put his neck on the line on something really weird...
I agree this is the sort of deal that needs to be executed quickly. It hasn't, and I can also see why. I wouldn't be surprised if it dies a slow death.
Clearly nothing like an FM release clause
Forgot there was another tax instance: the income tax on the club, the release clause was adjudged to be "after tax". At one point the idea was Bayern had to pay the release clause plus the tax that would fall on Bilbao, that would be the gross amount which in turn would be the net amount to arrive at after the income tax on the player...
So a release clause which was meant to be 35 or 40M ended up being about 60M. Bayern didn't wind up paying that much but they were close to pulling the plug several times and it ended up being the agent and Javi Martínez taking a knock to accommodate some of it. Can't see that being the case with Thiago.
So a release clause which was meant to be 35 or 40M ended up being about 60M. Bayern didn't wind up paying that much but they were close to pulling the plug several times and it ended up being the agent and Javi Martínez taking a knock to accommodate some of it. Can't see that being the case with Thiago.
I can see United entertaining all this random tax shite as much as the Germans did. That is, not at all.
Ha people are in meltdown already?
22 more days, muppets.
Remember when we were eagerly awaiting the end of the U21s so this could be concluded?
Thanks mate
I just get the impression there is a tendency to tap up players before speaking to their respective clubs,
'Buying a house' is a more difficult question, imo. What we're talking about is a job offer. How long should it take to decide whether you want a job?
Buying a house is closer. There's no transfer fee to negotiate when taking a job offer.
Until what?
End of the month when his clause expires.
Just seen Robbo's quotes, particularly this one:
Why should a club as big as Manchester United simply "cope" with a clearly inadequate midfield? Resting on our laurels and choosing to ignore the clear problem areas just because you can throw the argument that we won the league by 11 points last season is a dangerous game to play. Very average players like Michael Kightly were able to stroll through our midfield with ease like it wasn't even there at times last season.
I don't think Moyes would ignore the one place Fergie has left him to put his stamp on the team. (I know Thiago is a long time SAF target but it would be seen as a Moyes signing). It's a no-brainer.
Why should a club as big as Manchester United simply "cope" with a clearly inadequate midfield? Resting on our laurels and choosing to ignore the clear problem areas just because you can throw the argument that we won the league by 11 points last season is a dangerous game to play. Very average players like Michael Kightly were able to stroll through our midfield with ease like it wasn't even there at times last season.
I don't think Moyes would ignore the one place Fergie has left him to put his stamp on the team. (I know Thiago is a long time SAF target but it would be seen as a Moyes signing). It's a no-brainer.
If Thiago has a release clause why does United need to discuss a fee with Barca as reported in some of the news? If United triggered the clause shouldn't it be just whether Thiago wants to come?
Robson is a club ambassador. He's obviously going to project an overly optimistic view of the squad.
I'm sure off the record he'd admit to United needing to strengthen.
I'm sure off the record he'd admit to United needing to strengthen.
Thats because people mistook tim saying that he would focus on the tournament and decide on his future afterwards as literally being the day after.
Firstly, I think its a norm these days to agree terms with player and then approach the club. I was wrong though; as it's been said previously it's more complicated than simply triggering a release clause. See what happened with the latest RM transfer.
We could offer Barca more than 15 million-- it's suggested that Barca are more pissed at at the fees than losing the player-- and buy him. Win-win all around.
When the earnings in that job for the contract length signed will be getting on for £20 Million , and part of the job change is to try and maximise the chances of appearing at the World Cup (which is probably worth another £5 million), it will take as long as it takes.
Hes not choosing between Maccie D's and Burger King.
Once more on tax and the release clause. It's mostly a red herring, that exists purely because the release clause is seldom enforced (for various reasons including inter-club relationships and debt collection mechanisms) so when it is, the lawyers and tax office have to do the deal and check every bit of it against current Spanish and EU contract law, FIFA and UEFA codes of conduct and Spanish tax legislation.
The potential tax burden arises if the player pays the clause, which is what the contract appears to suggest. In reality, Bayern were given approval by Martinez to pay money to the Spanish league, who could then pay the money to Athletic as compensation for the loss of a contracted service.
This article summarises the eventual rulings in layman's terms (but in Spanish!): http://www.diariocritico.com/deportes/futbol/javi-martinez/417865
If the ruling had been that the player must pay the money himself (using money handed to him by the buying club) there were suggestions that an income tax liability could have arisen - doubling the price. This article by a Spanish sports law firm explains why the ruling could have been that there would be a VAT liability (of 21%) - but still no income tax. It was written prior to the final deal being done.
http://www.iusport.es/images/stories/opinion/guillermo-amilibia-tributacion-javi-martinez.pdf
The potential tax burden arises if the player pays the clause, which is what the contract appears to suggest. In reality, Bayern were given approval by Martinez to pay money to the Spanish league, who could then pay the money to Athletic as compensation for the loss of a contracted service.
This article summarises the eventual rulings in layman's terms (but in Spanish!): http://www.diariocritico.com/deportes/futbol/javi-martinez/417865
If the ruling had been that the player must pay the money himself (using money handed to him by the buying club) there were suggestions that an income tax liability could have arisen - doubling the price. This article by a Spanish sports law firm explains why the ruling could have been that there would be a VAT liability (of 21%) - but still no income tax. It was written prior to the final deal being done.
http://www.iusport.es/images/stories/opinion/guillermo-amilibia-tributacion-javi-martinez.pdf
I didn't know that. This deal definitely wont happen.
That should be the logic of release clauses, but the other day I was questioning myself how does this conflict with tapping up rules... It's a way of ignoring them completely.
You offer the release clause and the club has to let you talk with the player. Thats how it should work.
All said and done, I think its naive to believe that clubs first haggle about fees before even knowing whether the player in question would be willing to make the switch. First point of contact must be the player's agent to make sure that the player's actually interested in making the move before going on to discuss fee with the club in question.
I find it funny how it has become the norm to assume the entire midfield problem is down to SAF not sorting it so his heir could.
That said, I doubt Moyes will start the season with our current midfield. More like we will sign Fellaini than Thiago though, particularly if stopping Michael Kightly is the concern.
Read my posts on this page on the complexities of "triggering a release clause", in Spain, with the current club not wanting the chap to go...
Stop being so bloody hysterical, why would bloody Bryan Robson have any influence over our transfer dealings? We'll sign him, calm down.
"I find myself very happy at Barcelona. I want to stay and fight for my place."
- Thiago
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