Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

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Is he still in Bali?

I feel like going over to talk some sense into him.
 
I don't know what the hell is true and what's been completely fabricated, but assuming by some great miracle that someone isn't talking an absolute load of bollocks (regarding this bump in the road with Thiago's appearance demands), then I can perhaps begrudgingly sympathise with the club. The midfield is wide open so far as a player of Thiago's talent breaking into it is concerned, and there shouldn't really be any need for such a clause in light of that. What if that clause strips him of what would otherwise be a huge desire to really break in and cement himself? Further, if he does come and fail to adapt, are we then to be forced into playing him no matter how poorly he plays? I can't see that going down well with other squad members.

Still, at the same time I can also understand Thiago's need for a guarantee. He's leaving one of the best teams in the world and arguably taking a step down if he goes anywhere else but Bayern (in terms of team quality), so it'd be an absolute disaster for him on a personal level if he were to come here and be a squad player.

I'm thinking the smart move is to just throw the bank and whatever guarantee possible at a player like that when the fee is so minimal, but I can sort of understand if there's a little hesitance. And I mean sort of...this is one of the most gifted players on the planet we're talking about and he plays in a position in which we're crying out for some quality. Sign this fecker up!
 
Kingeric, see my post above. I think if we give him assurances provided he turns in good displays for us, then it's a very good possibility that we can renew the contract in such a way where there is no longer such a clause. It's been done before.

On another note, I don't think we should be upset with Thiago wanting assurances. For once, a player's move isn't mostly about money. It's refreshing to see in this day and time and even though we are offering him more money, he still at the end of the day wants to know he will play more games. He's not thinking like most United fans are where we know our midfield needs much improvement. To me, this clause says if I'm leaving Barca, I need to know I'll get games and promises won't be enough. That's fair but like I said before, not the greatest way to negotiate.
 
Platato said:
Kingeric, see my post above. I think if we give him assurances provided he turns in good displays for us, then it's a very good possibility that we can renew the contract in such a way where there is no longer such a clause. It's been done before.

On another note, I don't think we should be upset with Thiago wanting assurances. For once, a player's move isn't mostly about money. It's refreshing to see in this day and time and even though we are offering him more money, he still at the end of the day wants to know he will play more games. He's not thinking like most United fans are where we know our midfield needs much improvement. To me, this clause says if I'm leaving Barca, I need to know I'll get games and promises won't be enough. That's fair but like I said before, not the greatest way to negotiate.
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Yep, that's a point. Ideally this is the route we'll go down so that we're not bound by that clause in the future. Despite that, I can still sort of understand the club getting a bit caught up on these demands not just for the reasons above (motivation, leeway that other players don't have, etc), but also because of the principle of such a huge club having demands made of them by a 22 year old. Perhaps this is one of those instances whereby we have to swallow a bit of pride and see the principle for what is...a principle.

Like you say though, it is a breath of fresh air to see this being the issue as opposed to a player wanting hundred grand a week more than they're worth. The problems that I discuss up there are probably less likely to emerge in the case of someone who seems so willing to make the most out of his career.
 
KingEric7 said:
Yep, that's a point. Ideally this is the route we'll go down so that we're not bound by that clause in the future. Despite that, I can still sort of understand the club getting a bit caught up on these demands not just for the reasons above (motivation, leeway that other players don't have, etc), but also because of the principle of such a huge club having demands made of them by a 22 year old. Perhaps this is one of those instances whereby we have to swallow a bit of pride and see the principle for what is...a principle.
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No problem in my mind to put a salary escalator in the players' terms, say 3-million if targets aren't met (if healthy).
 
RedCanuck said:
No problem in my mind to put a salary escalator in the players' terms, say 3-million if targets aren't met (if healthy).
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Hmm, what if they aren't met because he's turned out shit though? I know it seems unimaginable and that such blasphemous hypotheticals have no place in this thread, but stranger things have happened.
 
Platato said:
It's also possible if Barca have caved in and offered a new contract, Thiago may wish to see what we offer in return. Based on how we've dealt with transfers in the past, once we ascertain a good value for a player, we usually don't go much higher than what we perceive to be the "final" offer. The kid seems to be weighing up his options. No harm in that. I think if he does stay at Barcelona, he will have to realise he'll just have to wait his turn before he succeeds Xavi. An improved contract won't guarantee more playing time and Tito has already told Thiago he can't make any guarantees.
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MD are reporting that Barcelona have no plans to offer a contract improvement for Thiago.


Platato said:
In my personal opinion, I think they want the blame to fall on Thiago. If Thiago spurning a new contract offer does the trick so be it. Rosell has just been criticised by Barcelona's former president. He needs some sort of deflection tactic. It's how the Spanish media works from what I've gathered. These next few days should be fun. It will be nervy but I think he will come to us. Oh and those who are so skeptical about this transfer saying he won't come here should not be allowed to join in the fun if he does sign for United :smirk:
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The bottom line is that I am sure the club will spin it that Thiago spurned reason & loyalty for money due to greed & impatience. Media spin for their benefactors, all over the globe, regardless of origin - Spain, much less Barcelona is not much different than the US/UK, India etc.

Rosell, IMHO, is likely taking this approach for 3 reasons. One, capitulating on a contract renewal for a youth talent (Our best perhaps) when he's still low on the playing time totem pole sets a dangerous financial precedent for current talents as well as those upcoming. Sandy is a clown but he's a money man and isn't going to head down that slippery slope. Two, there are whispers that some within the club who are not certain that Thiago is the answer going forward. I don't agree with this sentiment but it wouldn't surprise me if there were those who questioned it. Plus, irrespective of Tito's public insistence that he has confidence in the player, his minutes didn't reflect it - perhaps some rookie mistakes from Vilanova. Three, Mazinho represents a disruptive factor as agent/rep and the club has been taking a hard line against players with meddlesome/problematic agents who even flirt with the capital club. Can't say I fault even a shrew like Rosell on that last point.

Overall though, clearly it'll be a considerable loss to the club should he leave for United despite how it may end up being spun.
 
KingEric7 said:
Yep, that's a point. Ideally this is the route we'll go down so that we're not bound by that clause in the future. Despite that, I can still sort of understand the club getting a bit caught up on these demands not just for the reasons above (motivation, leeway that other plays don't have, etc), but also because of the principle of such a huge club having demands made of them by a 22 year old. Perhaps this is one of those instances whereby we have to swallow a bit of pride and see the principle for what is...a principle.

Like you say though, it is a breath of fresh air to see this being the issue as opposed to a player wanting hundred grand a week more than they're worth. The problems that I discuss up there are probably less likely to emerge in the case of someone who seems so willing to make the most out of his career.
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Precisely. Imagine the scenario if Sir Alex was here. I think there would not be a need for such a clause. de Gea would be able to speak high praise of Sir Alex and his trust in youth. He would cite how Sir Alex continued to trust in him despite his tough period adjusting to the EPL. He would also mention some of Sir Alex's other qualities which DDG highlighted in a recent interview. He remarked how he owes so much to the great man and he's only been here for 2 seasons. It's true the draw of SAF only goes so far but his presence would have been enough to seal the deal in my opinion.

However, Sir Alex has retired and such a scenario is no longer possible. So now we have Moyes. Someone who Thiago does not know other than he is the new United manager. How could he get the same assurances from Moyes, which would be implicitly acknowledged (my own assumption) if SAF was still manager? Understand, I'm trying to view the situation from a different angle. Therefore, from this point of view, I can see why Thiago wants these assurances for his playing time. As we all know, Sir Alex played a major role in re-establishing Manchester United's trust in young players. Hence despite our recent trend on using young players, how does Thiago know he will receive more playing time under Moyes? This view aligns with what Graham Hunter said a few days ago. Thiago knows Pep and he knows Tito. However, he doesn't know Moyes. I think he wants to know his future is secure under Moyes. Based on that and what we know about Moyes, I think Thiago signing for Manchester United is not far away.
 
KingEric7 said:
Hmm, what if they aren't met because he's turned out shit though? I know it seems unimaginable and that such blasphemous hypotheticals have no place in this thread, but stranger things have happened.
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Not a problem. The transfer fee, even at 20+3=23 million is worth the effort, even more so if its the rumoured 17 million fee to Barca. The reason I make the point is that it represents a tangible commitment to the player. If he doesn't fit the Prem then there it is, blame the scouts. We will probably commit as much in wages to Thiago.

In truth, what I don't want is this to become a stumbling block to the deal, there is always a way.
 
Moyes can activate Agent Arteta to finish the assignment.
 
FCBarca said:
MD are reporting that Barcelona have no plans to offer a contract improvement for Thiago.

The bottom line is that I am sure the club will spin it that Thiago spurned reason & loyalty for money due to greed & impatience. Media spin for their benefactors, all over the globe, regardless of origin - Spain, much less Barcelona is not much different than the US/UK, India etc.

Rosell, IMHO, is likely taking this approach for 3 reasons. One, capitulating on a contract renewal for a youth talent (Our best perhaps) when he's still low on the playing time totem pole sets a dangerous financial precedent for current talents as well as those upcoming. Sandy is a clown but he's a money man and isn't going to head down that slippery slope. Two, there are whispers that some within the club who are not certain that Thiago is the answer going forward. I don't agree with this sentiment but it wouldn't surprise me if there were those who questioned it. Plus, irrespective of Tito's public insistence that he has confidence in the player, his minutes didn't reflect it - perhaps some rookie mistakes from Vilanova. Three, Mazinho represents a disruptive factor as agent/rep and the club has been taking a hard line against players with meddlesome/problematic agents who even flirt with the capital club. Can't say I fault even a shrew like Rosell on that last point.

Overall though, clearly it'll be a considerable loss to the club should he leave for United despite how it may end up being spun.
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Thanks for the perspective mate. I think it will come down to how effective Rosell creates such a scenario. Right now, it doesn't look good for him.
 
FCBarca said:
Overall though, clearly it'll be a considerable loss to the club should he leave for United despite how it may end up being spun.
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As much as I despise the idea of a player using United to get better terms, I can still see him resigning with Barca.

Without seeing Thiago play day-in and out he seems a perfect fit for us and him, hence the muppetry.
 
Platato said:
Precisely. Imagine the scenario if Sir Alex was here. I think there would not be a need for such a clause. de Gea would be able to speak high praise of Sir Alex and his trust in youth. He would cite how Sir Alex continued to trust in him despite his tough period adjusting to the EPL. He would also mention some of Sir Alex's other qualities which DDG highlighted in a recent interview. He remarked how he owes so much to the great man and he's only been here for 2 seasons. It's true the draw of SAF only goes so far but his presence would have been enough to seal the deal in my opinion.

However, Sir Alex has retired and such a scenario is no longer possible. So now we have Moyes. Someone who Thiago does not know other than he is the new United manager. How could he get the same assurances from Moyes, which would be implicitly acknowledged (my own assumption) if SAF was still manager? Understand, I'm trying to view the situation from a different angle. Therefore, from this point of view, I can see why Thiago wants these assurances for his playing time. As we all know, Sir Alex played a major role in re-establishing Manchester United's trust in young players. Hence despite our recent trend on using young players, how does Thiago know he will receive more playing time under Moyes? This view aligns with what Graham Hunter said a few days ago. Thiago knows Pep and he knows Tito. However, he doesn't know Moyes. I think he wants to know his future is secure under Moyes. Based on that and what we know about Moyes, I think Thiago signing for Manchester United is not far away.
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Don't think there can be any doubt that SAF's influence in a transfer like this would've been vast. It would be immense signing someone like Thiago despite his loss - a real message that we still mean business.

Hope you're right on that last bit. Must admit I have no idea who Graham Hunter is beyond what he's said about this transfer.

RedCanuck said:
Not a problem. The transfer fee, even at 20+3=23 million is worth the effort, even more so if its the rumoured 17 million fee to Barca. The reason I make the point is that it represents a tangible commitment to the player. If he doesn't fit the Prem then there it is, blame the scouts. We will probably commit as much in wages to Thiago.

In truth, what I don't want is this to become a stumbling block to the deal, there is always a way.
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I thought you were talking about a £3m increase in wages. :lol: Such is the ludicrousy of today's game.
 
I don't beehive in this latest romurs for one second. Rafinha signed a new deal with Barca just a few days after Mazinho met Rosell and Barca made it public imiiditalely. If they still thought they could keep Thiago the local press would have known this by now, they have a good relationship with insiders in the club but so far we only read speculations about possible scenarios instead of positive reports about keeping the player. I think that Thiago and Mazinho has already made up their mind and the deal with United is done in principles and just waiting for a legal ratification from Woodward and Moyes, they start their new work on Monday.

And regarding Thiago I think there is now way he would be so calm and be on holliday without knowing about his future, to much money and exitement involved.
 
Thiago can be calm because right now he has two of the biggest clubs by the short and curlies.
 
Thiago is so obviously going to sign another contract with Barca. It's standard practice now for the players agent to plant stories about a move away to increase the wages.
 
duffer said:
Thiago is so obviously going to sign another contract with Barca. It's standard practice now for the players agent to plant stories about a move away to increase the wages.
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Except Barca aren't renewing his contract. Woosh!
 
They have maintained that stance. Do you want to begin a precedent of offering new contracts to every young talent who threatens to leave? I think not.
 
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