Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

Status
Not open for further replies.
Summit said:
"Thiago wants to sign, club to player all good. Club to club may need work".

Graham Hunter said the above in a convo, can someone tell me why club to club may need to work? Er release clause...
Click to expand...


So either Barca can force us pay a meager 18% tax or go even further make Thiago buy his contract. The first cause is just chump change, but the second one is tricky, if we give thiago any money to buy his contract, he'll have to pay 40+% in income tax in any money we give him.
 
DSCF1474a.jpg


2202197224_ea8e84a0f0_b.jpg
 
Everest Red said:
So either Barca can force us pay a meager 18% tax or go even further make Thiago buy his contract. The first cause is just chump change, but the second one is tricky, if we give thiago any money to buy his contract, he'll have to pay 40+% in income tax in any money we give him.
Click to expand...


It's high time barca should be a bit more sporting and just do stuff that will smoothly allow his transfer. They just bought neymar and are still one of the strongest teams in the world. It's not like Thiago was the main reason for barca's strength in the previous seasons. I think united and barca have a decent relationship and if they try to pull the plug on this or make matters worse, it will cause more problems to them in the future and will ruin their reputation generally. They screwed bigtime over him and should accept it gracefully. They had their chances
 
Summit said:
"Thiago wants to sign, club to player all good. Club to club may need work".

Graham Hunter said the above in a convo, can someone tell me why club to club may need to work? Er release clause...
Click to expand...

Barca dont like dealing with gingers, so Moyesy's off to the salon to get something sorted....

Nice one, he's sorted & off now to meet with Thiago & he's in a feckin hurry too:

lady-driver.jpg
 
blitz133w said:
It's high time barca should be a bit more sporting and just do stuff that will smoothly allow his transfer. They just bought neymar and are still one of the strongest teams in the world. It's not like Thiago was the main reason for barca's strength in the previous seasons. I think united and barca have a decent relationship and if they try to pull the plug on this or make matters worse, it will cause more problems to them in the future and will ruin their reputation generally. They screwed bigtime over him and should accept it gracefully. They had their chances
Click to expand...

This post seems more so in hope than defiance. :lol:
 
fishfingers15 said:
This post seems more so in hope than defiance. :lol:
Click to expand...


Agreed.

It's a bit rich to be suggesting what Barcelona need to do given that if he was the future of our midfield we'd be a bit pissed too regardless of the talent we had there at the time.

That said, given that Barcelona have been linked with recent comments like "we've done all we can to persuade him" it sounds like there will be an acceptance if he doesn't choose to stay (maybe my wishful thinking but that's how I interpreted it). I can't see them digging their heels in and being unnecessarily awkward.
 
Everest Red said:
So either Barca can force us pay a meager 18% tax or go even further make Thiago buy his contract. The first cause is just chump change, but the second one is tricky, if we give thiago any money to buy his contract, he'll have to pay 40+% in income tax in any money we give him.
Click to expand...


In real life no one has ever paid the (now 54%) income tax - because the tax authorities treat the player buying his contract as a legitimate expense. However that's something that has to be carefully managed whenever a hostile buyout occurs. Particularly when the player changes country and two tax systems are involved.

The other ugly aspect of the process is that you have to do the medical and the negotiation against the selling club's wishes - in theory it's the ultimate tapping up offence. Though again, for all Athletic's talk about denouncing Bayern Munich over Martinez, it doesn't happen.
 
Everest Red said:
So either Barca can force us pay a meager 18% tax or go even further make Thiago buy his contract. The first cause is just chump change, but the second one is tricky, if we give thiago any money to buy his contract, he'll have to pay 40+% in income tax in any money we give him.
Click to expand...


Ah, ok, cheers.
 
So what's really happening? Does anyone know?

I'm at work, cock at the ready, I've set aside two working hours in which I can blow my load. This better happen before lunch!
 
jojojo said:
for all Athletic's talk about denouncing Bayern Munich over Martinez, it doesn't happen.
Click to expand...


The agency that manages Alcantara also manage these guys:
PlayerAgeNat.Position
Competition​
ContractMarket value
Cesc Fàbregas
FC Barcelona
26​
​
Attacking Midfield​
2016​
45.000.000 €​
 Thiago
FC Barcelona
22​

​
Central Midfield​
2015​
22.000.000 €​
 Dani Alves
FC Barcelona
30​

​
Right-Back​
2015​
20.000.000 €​
 Alex Song
FC Barcelona
25​

​
Defensive Midfield​
2017​
18.000.000 €​
 Danny Welbeck
Manchester United
22​

​
Centre Forward​
2016​
17.000.000 €​
 Gaël Clichy
Manchester City
27​

​
Left-Back​
2017​
15.000.000 €​
 Adriano
FC Barcelona
28​

​
Left-Back​
2017​
15.000.000 €​
 Gerard Deulofeu
FC Barcelona B
19​
​
Right Wing​
2017​
15.000.000 €​
 Emmanuel Adebayor
Tottenham Hotspur
29​

​
Centre Forward​
2015​
13.000.000 €​
​
​
​
​
​


​
Plus a few other high profile players. Why would Barca piss so many parties
 
marjen said:
So what's really happening? Does anyone know?

I'm at work, cock at the ready, I've set aside two working hours in which I can blow my load. This better happen before lunch!
Click to expand...



Thiago may know.

Then again he may just know he's already got United in the bag and he's now sitting on his fence again looking to see if a bigger, juicier game shows up.
 
Summit said:
Ah, hello there soon to be B21. How do you feel with this news my scouse friend?
Click to expand...


I've had better feels.

Still think the dream of Thiago is far better than what he will actually add to your team.
 
jojojo said:
Thiago may know.

Then again he may just know he's already got United in the bag and he's now sitting on his fence again looking to see if a bigger, juicier game shows up.
Click to expand...


Aside from United the other two biggest sides in the World are Barca and Madrid... I can't see him going to Bayern a) because of the depth they already possess in midfield and b) I can't see Pep building a dynasty at that club and staying there for ages so its a big gamble in my opinion to move just for Pep. Furthermore there is a strong spanish contingent already in Manchester albeit majority of it is at City but regardless, doubt he'll feel too homesick and we're probably the only club in which he can join and play his natural game without any shackles.

The keys to the team's midfield are his if he wants it... direct the teams style and be its heartbeat. I can't see that possibility at any other club.
 
Raees said:
Aside from United the other two biggest sides in the World are Barca and Madrid... I can't see him going to Bayern a) because of the depth they already possess in midfield and b) I can't see Pep building a dynasty at that club and staying there for ages so its a big gamble in my opinion to move just for Pep. Furthermore there is a strong spanish contingent already in Manchester albeit majority of it is at City but regardless, doubt he'll feel too homesick and we're probably the only club in which he can join and play his natural game without any shackles.

The key's to the teams midfield are his if he wants it... direct the teams style and be its heartbeat. I can't see that possibility at any other club.
Click to expand...


We have a spanish speaking contingent though. Hernandez, Valencia, Henriquez, DdG.
 
Platato said:
If you want to know why simply meeting the buyout price isn't enough when dealing with Spanish clubs, read here(The parts in bold are the most relevant.):

Miguel-Ángel Gil Marín this past week announced -- and "announced" is the word -- that Real Madrid had offered €45 million ($61M) for Atlético Madrid forward Sergio "El Kun" Aguero. He also said that Chelsea had made a huge €60M ($81M) joint bid for Aguero and Uruguayan center back Diego Godín. But don't worry, he added proudly, we said no. And that was that. That was also pretty much the point.
Soon the story appeared on the BBC in London. And soon after it appeared in the Spanish press, tagged with that favorite line, get-out clause and must be true credibility ticket rolled into one: according to sources in England. The story was made all the more real because it was backed up by quotes that were absolutely categorical. Not just any quotes, either, but quotes from Atlético's chief executive and majority shareholder -- son of the former owner Jesús Gil y Gil. And he should know.
He should indeed know. In fact, he does know. The trouble is, sometimes it's not enough to know what someone said; sometimes it's a good idea to ask why they said it. What exactly do they know? Why did they chose to "reveal" it? And are they telling the truth?
Real Madrid publicly denied that it had made a bid. Chelsea do not publicly comment on transfer stories but privately it denied it too. There was no follow-up, no second bid, no battle. Not yet, anyway.

There was also something not quite right about the claim. Aguero's official buyout clause is €45M. Which begs two questions. One, if his buyout clause is €45M why would you turn down a €45M bid? And two, how could you turn it down? After all, isn't that what a buyout clause is for? If someone offers that amount, you have no choice, right?
Right. And wrong. That's sort of how it works, but not exactly how it works.
Spain's buyout clauses have often been set up as a deterrent -- symbolic, gigantic figures to warn off suitors. Sergio Busquets has just renewed his deal with Barcelona for example and his buyout clause is now €150M ($204M). But they do also have a practical use. They form part of a legal framework and also a gentleman's agreement between clubs. Which is why the price is not always the price. Because clubs are not always gentlemanly about it.

Under the terms of that basic agreement, clubs accepted that another club which paid the buyout clause could sign a player without resistance. If it's €45M, you pay €45M and you take your player, no mess and no fuss. It is, essentially, a price set at which you say you will sell.
But you don't necessarily have to sell at that price; that agreement has a legal foundation that is a little different. At an informal level, the modus operandi has been altered since Real Madrid walked off with Luis Figo for the symbolic but just about manageable figure of 10,000M pesetas. The buyout clause remains, but the application of it is different.

Now most clubs are saying: this is the buyout clause, sure, but if you make a hostile bid, a bid that we do not welcome, we will force you to apply the clause legally. And when you apply the law legally, that is a different issue. When you apply the law legally, it is a different price.
That means one of two things, both of which increase the price. Firstly, it can mean adding the VAT at 18 percent. In the past, clubs have agreed to include VAT in the invoice for a player's transfer (which of course can be claimed back from the state). Now, if the bid is hostile, they will not. In other words, the buying club will have to pay the clause plus the 18 percent. So, Aguero's price rises from €45M to €53.1M ($72M).
The other option is for a club to simply refuse to sell -- until, that is, it is forced to. That's where the legal buyout clause kicks in, Decreto Real 1006/1985. But that decree is exactly what it says it is: a buyout clause. A player (not the club) deposits the money, the value of the buyout clause, at the Spanish league and unilaterally breaks his contract. That money, of course, would be given to him by the buying club in order to buy himself out. The problem is that as soon as that money hits his account it counts as income -- even if it is then deposited elsewhere. And so it is liable to taxation at 44 percent. In other words, the €45M is the amount left after taxation. That is to say that Aguero's overall cost is €80.2M ($109M).

The other factor that's significant is that the buyout clause is a Spanish agreement. When it comes to international transfers -- to bids from aboard like the one supposedly from Chelsea -- it is irrelevant. Except as a symbolic price, a reference point from which you can negotiate.
All of which reinforces Gil Marín's position.
Or appears to. Because the other things buyout clauses offer clubs is protection. In a sense, they are a sleight of hand. Every player has a price, every club too. With or without a clause. When you set a buyout clause, you set a price at which you would sell a player and, just as importantly, you give yourself an excuse. When fans complain that you have let your star go, you simply respond: we couldn't do anything about it, they paid the buyout clause.
And that is the key here. Sergio Aguero recently renewed his contract with Atlético Madrid. In return for doing so, his buyout clause came down from €60M ($80M) to €45M. Fans feared that meant he was making himself more affordable for future clubs; signing a new deal might look like committing yourself to Atlético for longer but, they feared, it was actually a prelude to a departure. The same process had happened before with Fernando Torres.
It is not just about the player. Publicly, the club would never say so but the drop in the buyout clause suits it too. It offers a price -- a more reachable price -- at which other clubs know that they would negotiate while setting that price high and also providing the excuse. The trouble is, some fans started to suspect as much. Some feared that Atlético -- already seemingly in a slow but steady decline -- was preparing the ground for its best player to go.

Which is exactly why Gil Marín spoke out. Who stands to gain when a club loudly announces a huge bid -- and one it has bravely, heroically turned down? The club itself. Gil Marín.
Amid fears that Aguero was going to depart and criticism of the chief executive for preparing that departure, Gil Marín defended himself. He tried to shift any future blame elsewhere and to underline his resolve: if Aguero goes, it will not be our fault, we will fight to keep him until the law says we can fight no more. He tried to rehabilitate himself and his club in the eyes of the fans. Basically, he boasted. If the reaction from the other two clubs involved is anything to go by, it was an empty boast. A lie.

This week Miguel-Ángel Gil Marín did not so much announce that he had turned down huge bids for Sergio Aguero as announce that he will not sell the club's best player. Even though the inescapable reality is that, one day, that is exactly what he will do.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sid_lowe/01/29/atletico.buyouts/index.html#ixzz2Wo5wVrpG
Click to expand...

Wow, so according to this article, Bayern must have paid 40M euros plus 44% tax? No wonder we did not want the fecker.

Sure this Taxation thing is a pain in the ass, but even if we scored Thiago for 30M it would still be worth it.
 
Everest Red said:
We have a spanish speaking contingent though. Hernandez, Valencia, Henriquez, DdG.
Click to expand...


Yes, DDG's his partner and then there's also the spanish internationals at City in David Silva and potentially Isco. Either way I think United are better placed to sign big talent from Spain these days and if we have two of them at this club, it'll open the gateway for even more future spanish talents of the future to come to us.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Wow, so according to this article, Bayern must have paid 40M euros plus 44% tax? No wonder we did not want the fecker.

Sure this Taxation thing is a pain in the ass, but even if we scored Thiago for 30M it would still be worth it.
Click to expand...


No one has ever paid income tax on it.

United pays the player for his contract in advance, the player buys the contract - tax deductible expenses in both cases. However it is a pain in the neck because the player and buyer have to get the tax office(s) to confirm to the lawyers before the deal that it will be treated as an expense.
 
jojojo said:
No one has ever paid income tax on it.

United pays the player for his contract in advance, the player buys the contract - tax deductible expenses in both cases. However it is a pain in the neck because the player and buyer have to get the tax office(s) to confirm to the lawyers before the deal that it will be treated as an expense.
Click to expand...

Yeah, its such a rarity and is clearly not "income", it should really be checked and then waved along.

Well that's good news aswell then.

I have no doubts we will get the finance part sorted, the main aspect for me is the player apparently wants to come. That is the BIG thing.
 
jojo should be made muppet captain for this thread, he knows the ins and outs of Spanish footy and follows the spanish press like no other.

Take the mantle off Pexbo's sticky hands, son!
 
Is it really true that Moyes has cut his holiday short? How did anyone find that out? Is Davey on Twitter? "Jollys cut short. Wife mad. #Muppet"

Thiago only just went on holiday the other day too, didn't he?
 
Adam-Utd said:
Yeah, its such a rarity and is clearly not "income", it should really be checked and then waved along.

Well that's good news aswell then.

I have no doubts we will get the finance part sorted, the main aspect for me is the player apparently wants to come. That is the BIG thing.
Click to expand...

We have to assume Thiago wants to come, or at least had strong interest, else I doubt DDG would have written "that" message on the match ball.
 
Vato1979 said:
jojo should be made muppet captain for this thread, he knows the ins and outs of Spanish footy and follows the spanish press like no other.

Take the mantle off Pexbo's sticky hands, son!
Click to expand...
She*
 
Is it such a impossibility that this is just a stalling tactic by Barca to extend the negotiations for 10 days past the cut off of the lower release clause?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.