After all we've seen I would say we should never, ever sign a player from Bayern again
Thiago Alc*ntara | Retires
- Thread starter horsechoker
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After all we've seen I would say we should never, ever sign a player from Bayern again
Mané being the biggest success right now in the league. And Aubameyang.
I always thought he was a quality player and have followed him since before he scored a blinder against us in America for Barca. I’ve followed him for at least a decade and so I felt that at times we couldn’t control the tempo of the match and that he would have been perfect. For example, that game against Southampton last season springs to mind - we couldn’t keep possession at all. I thought he’d have been perfect for that. I definitely have seen enough of him to know there is a quality player in there. It just hasn’t happened for him at Liverpool. It could be because of tactical incompatibility.
Lucky? Absolutely! There’s a huge element of luck involved if a transfer is going to be prove successful or not. That goes for all players, all clubs and all leagues. There’s simply too many variables to take into account to deem a successful transfer being simply down to the club being ‘well run’ and doing their due diligence. Of course, that’s a major factor of any transfer being a success but there is certainly a healthy dose of luck involved, too.
For example, wasn’t Salah reported to be third or fourth down Klopp’s initial list for a RW? Didn’t your famed statistics department have their biggest hard-on for Keita out of all of the players their systems had data on in their 5+ years of being in operation? Both transfers have had polar opposite impacts on your club and the variables we mention have a lot to do with that.
I stand by my initial point: Liverpool were nigh-on perfect in the transfer market over the past 5-6 years, both purchasing and selling. Buying relatively cheaply on a player’s upward trajectory and somehow attaining ridiculous fees for nothing talents like Ibe, Brewster, Solanke etc. That is unheard of in the game across the globe. That hit rate - both incomings and outgoings - is unsustainable and it’s great to see their luck level out a bit with this flop of a Thiago signing.
We still have those same issues. The game against Everton recently for example. We made keeping possession to see out the game difficult.
We need that mould of a player, Carrick, kross, old thiago.
Anyone out there?
De bruyne as well, think son came from Germany as well
Leroy Sane
I think mane become a hit after coming here and establishing himself at saints. I'd border calling him a hit (though he did come from German league and is a hit so fair play)
Borderline?
I have no idea. I have very limited football knowledge these days as I don’t spend anywhere near enough time watching it. I bet @Adnan could come up with a name though.
And agreed. The problem hasn’t just gone away. Happened vs Leicester earlier in the season too. Still seething from that game.
I wouldn’t say Sane was borderline. Yes he didn’t have a long tenure. But he had 2 years where he was unplayable at times. I’m sure he won young player of the season too? His falling out with pep at the end was his downfall but when he did play he was brilliant. He would have to be regarded as a success as he was a big part of the team that won the domestic treble.
I suppose so but there are plenty of signings like Van Dijk, Wijnaldum, Mane, Robertson, Fabinho, Alisson & Matip who Klopp went for and we’ve built success around. He’s also managed some of those players really well. It took several months for Robertson & Fabinho to get regular starts and that proved a good decision.
Do you think some of those signings were definitely on an upward trajectory before we signed them? I don’t recall anyone saying players like Mane, Wijnaldum, Salah even Van Dijk we’re destined for Premier League and Champions League wins. Klopp lifted a lot of these players up.
Thiago is turning out to be a liability. Certainly not effective in this team and if anything he’s costing Liverpool right now.
Don’t know if anyone noticed Henderson tearing into him for giving the free kick on the edge of the box.
Don’t know if anyone noticed Henderson tearing into him for giving the free kick on the edge of the box.
Fair and good points and I certainly wouldn't argue that
Appreciate the lengthy reply but I think it's just logic - which league has the most money? Therefore where would you expect the best players, on average, to be? When the best players become available, on average, where do they go?
I chose Ballack and Havertz because they weren't EPL biased - Werner said something similar as well. I don't buy into the transfer part of what you said, transfers from BL to PL are probably about the same as any other league to the PL, there are hits and misses & that even happens when PL teams buy from PL teams.
He needs legs beside him, has done for the last few seasons.
Without a CM partner to do his running for him he is nigh on pointless in a high tempo game of football.
Far to easy to play around.
He had Kimmich and Goretzka at Bayern who allowed him the freedom to play his own game, he doesn't have that luxury at Liverpool and it's highlighting his flaws massively.
*ahem*
Have you actually watched Bayern play last season? They employ a very high defensive line and apply heavy pressure across the pitch. All of their players work extremely hard for the team including Thiago. He plays mainly in a double pivot with Goretzka (Not Goretzka and Kimmich) who operates higher up the pitch while Thiago stays deep and mops up.
Just because he is Brazilian and is silky on the ball means that he is defensively weak, has low workrate and need runners in midfield for him. That is just poor stereotyping.
Henderson and Cattermole. Then and now.
What language were they speaking?
He's just a bit boring, isn't he? He doesn't score, doesn't assist, doesn't tackle well, doesn't defend well. Slows the play down hugely in a team that thrives off of fast attacks. Gives away free kicks. All the time. For no reason whatsoever. Does he actually offer anything that Wijnaldum and co didn't do already? Maybe that's harsh, because Wijnaldum does chip in with some goals.
Yeah, I have watched Bayern from last season, and had you then you would have known that Kimmich played a fair amount of games in the middle alongside Thiago.
You'd also know that Thiago spent alot of his last season at Bayern injured.
How can telling the truth be stereotyping?
There's a reason why Klopp went for Milner instead of Thiago today, he was playing a team full of pacy tricky players and he wanted legs in the middle.
Hell, you even have Carragher saying he needs to sharpen up, you also had Henderson chastising him on the pitch.
Difference being Schweinsteiger was actually one of the best midfielders of his generation, while Thiago had like 6 good months after many frustrating and mediocre years at Bayern.
Kimmich and Goretzka were better in that midfield than Thiago for me.
Tbf, watching him playing in this pool team, I just felt like watching Fred playing in his first season with us. Easily discomposed the ball by the opponents, passing and reacting are slow.
this is probably he has not gotten used to EPL and his new team. He has a lot to do to recover his reputation. The loss of CBs is the real issue for them. Picking him up to blame is not fair.
this is probably he has not gotten used to EPL and his new team. He has a lot to do to recover his reputation. The loss of CBs is the real issue for them. Picking him up to blame is not fair.
KDB was player of the year last season, In current form, Gundogan might be on the way to winning this season too. Both from Bundesliga. Sane was YPOTY in his 2nd season too
He is a butcher alright. Great service and signing of the season so far.
That species is dead.
Honestly that type of player is tougher to come by with how fast paced and high intensity the game is at the top level, because teams simply don't let players dictate the game for the most part. Up and coming midfielders now need to be good in confined spaces but also be attack dogs while defending with plenty of energy. Generally those styles don't mix with controlling tempo going forward unless you are Xavi.
While I think the weakness of the BL is somewhat overblown, you picked bad examples there for the Spanish comparison. Coutinho was always overhyped and many (most?) people laughed at Barca spending so much on him and he was widely tipped to fail. Hazard's just been destroyed by injuries but from what I hear he's actually had some good spells when he's managed to put a run together.
It's a joke
In fairness to Fred, he was just a bit crap and not sharp enough, he never looked like he was running in treacle which is Thiago’s biggest problem.
Bundesliga in general seems to be shipping the PL flop after flop lately
Errr, I think you're getting your Red Bulls mixed up.
Fair enough, if he didn't come from Germany
Oops
Eh? Mané's never played a single minute of Bundesliga football.
Both, Bayern and Liverpool, have a distinguished style of playing football, which is instrumental to their current successes.
However, these styles are very different and hardly compatible.
I already mentioned it before I never understood that Klopp was so keen on getting Thiago on board. Especially, because Klopp is well known for smart transfers that perfectly fit into his playing style. All his buys, bar maybe Keita, were successes. And the latter is just cursed with injuries since joining Liverpool, which he never had in Leipzig.
Maybe Klopp overestimated Thiago's versatility to adapt.
Thiago would have perfectly fitted into the midfield of Man City. No idea why Pep wasn't after him once it became clear he was looking for a new challenge in the Premier League. The 30 million Euro transfer fee couldn't have been a deal breaker. After all he is huge fan of Thiago since he promoted him into the first team of Barcelona. I still remember his words to the Bayern management in his first weeks at Munich requesting them to sign "Thiago or nobody".
Also I didn't understand Thiago himself why he absolutely wanted to join Liverpool despite well knowing they playing a total different kind of football.
However, these styles are very different and hardly compatible.
I already mentioned it before I never understood that Klopp was so keen on getting Thiago on board. Especially, because Klopp is well known for smart transfers that perfectly fit into his playing style. All his buys, bar maybe Keita, were successes. And the latter is just cursed with injuries since joining Liverpool, which he never had in Leipzig.
Maybe Klopp overestimated Thiago's versatility to adapt.
Thiago would have perfectly fitted into the midfield of Man City. No idea why Pep wasn't after him once it became clear he was looking for a new challenge in the Premier League. The 30 million Euro transfer fee couldn't have been a deal breaker. After all he is huge fan of Thiago since he promoted him into the first team of Barcelona. I still remember his words to the Bayern management in his first weeks at Munich requesting them to sign "Thiago or nobody".
Also I didn't understand Thiago himself why he absolutely wanted to join Liverpool despite well knowing they playing a total different kind of football.
Man City alone had handful of top players from the Bundesliga. Boateng, Kompany, Sané, Kevin de Bruyne and Gündogan.