Thiago Alc*ntara | Retires

I think he’s the epitome of everything wrong with our midfield right now. Lacking energy and disjointed.

Henderson & Wijnaldum playing ahead of Fabinho allowed them to do all the hard work whilst the latter swept up and anchored from midfield. Now we’ve changed it up to try and fit Thiago in (and due to injuries) and it doesn’t work.

I’d like to see Thiago play with Fabinho in midfield but I doubt that’ll happen this season now.
 
Klopper76 said:
I think he’s the epitome of everything wrong with our midfield right now. Lacking energy and disjointed.

Henderson & Wijnaldum playing ahead of Fabinho allowed them to do all the hard work whilst the latter swept up and anchored from midfield. Now we’ve changed it up to try and fit Thiago in (and due to injuries) and it doesn’t work.

I’d like to see Thiago play with Fabinho in midfield but I doubt that’ll happen this season now.
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In theory that should work better but don't you think same problems would persist even then he simply looks laboured and weak ,lacking energy and always a second behind the play signs so far aren't great his reputation is currently is his only saving grace at the moment maybe Bayern again did a number on English Club .
 
gajender said:
In theory that should work better but don't you think same problems would persist even then he simply looks laboured and weak ,lacking energy and always a second behind the play signs so far aren't great his reputation is currently is his only saving grace at the moment maybe Bayern again did a number on English Club .
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Maybe. Sometimes players just aren’t suited to a certain league or team. Bayern are known for selling players they’re happy to lose as well.
 
Thiago has always been an inconsistent but talented player. The media losing their mind after every 5 yard pass was ridiculous
 
He's still a superb player who could still be a real asset in the right system. Klopps inability to adjust and play of his strengths is the problem, not the player himself.
 
Klopper76 said:
I think he’s the epitome of everything wrong with our midfield right now. Lacking energy and disjointed.

Henderson & Wijnaldum playing ahead of Fabinho allowed them to do all the hard work whilst the latter swept up and anchored from midfield. Now we’ve changed it up to try and fit Thiago in (and due to injuries) and it doesn’t work.

I’d like to see Thiago play with Fabinho in midfield but I doubt that’ll happen this season now.
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Klopp likes having workhorses in midfield who are spatially aware. He wants engines in the middle who can press/intercept/plug the gaps and drive the ball forward to the technical talent further forward with Mane, Firmino & Salah. He's been extremely successful with this strategy. The whole point of setting up the team this way is precisely to get the ball forward to the front 3 as quickly as possible so they can attack at lightening pace.

Thiago's strengths is the exact opposite of this approach. He favours slower build up, shorter passes etc. He doesn't have the engine or the stamina or defensive awareness to execute the role that Liverpool need him to play.

We have to keep in mind that Liverpool didn't just keep Thiago quiet in the 18/19 CL....he was actually a liability for Bayern in the middle. He was constantly overwhelmed by the spatially-aware engines in middle for Liverpool. Bayern were annihilated in the midfield and if Liverpool met Bayern last year, they would have devastated Bayern again.

There's a reason why Guardiola couldn't go to a CL final with him in the team, it's not only his fault of course but the entire Bayern midfield were too slow and ponderous. We have to keep in mind Thiago was hand-picked by Guardiola to excel in the Bayern midfield and it just didn't work out.

Even last year, PSG could have been 3 goals up in the CL final first half and everybody knows it. It's just that Neuer played a blinder in that match. Thiago was anonymous in the first half when the game could have been done and dusted. The idea that he can "control" matches is false, he needs people to do the dirty work for him and if they don't, he'll be brutally exposed.
 
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Hansinity said:
Insane weird takes here.

I would take him back at Bayern immediately. I wish he would still play for us. He is the main reason Bayern lacks so much balance now.
If you ask most Bayern players who is the best player they have ever played with they all mention Thiago. Lewandowski put him over Kimmich, Neuer in his vote. Davies mentioned Thiago over Lewandowski, Neuer, Kimmich.


It is so funny , that many he find excuses for Rashford when he doesn't play well ( like still impacted by a back injury months ago :D) , or Bruno being tired. Thiago came to Livepool, got injured, got Corona, plays as CM with lots of defensive responsibilitiesfor a team who is obviously ocmpletely out of form and disorganized and struggles HEAVILY with injuries. But yeah , must be world class immediately ! No other Liverpool player is shining recently. Maybe someone tells me next that Rashford is better than Salah and Mane.

Thiago was insanely important defensively for Bayern in their Champions League run, especially in Gegenpressing and when getting pressed. Always has a solution for both direction.
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Leave Britney alone!

I used to enjoy watching him play for Bayern but you're actually trying to make it out like he's one of your greatest ever players and yet you're the one going with the 'insane weird takes' argument. He's a very entertaining player to watch and I've always been a huge fan, but mostly due to him being so aesthetically pleasing (in football terms of course!) on the ball rather than him being a great tactical weapon.

You're following this up with that you think made a reasonable argument, yet you're trying to bring Rashford as an example? Feel free to show me where somebody has used his back injury as an excuse for sub-par performances? If anything, Rashford is probably the one who's being called out the most when he doesn't play well. Hell, even uncalled digs à la "more worried about feeding kids than playing well" have been thrown at him.

But I do agree that it's too early to label him a complete flop though, with reasons that you mention (injuries, Covid-19, different playing style etc.) but you somehow forget that you're on a Manchester United forum and we're discussing a player that was suppose to elevate our biggest arch rival to new heights at the time of his signing, media wanking over classy sideway passes, but halfway through and he has yet to show anything that indicates he will take his Bayern form to Liverpool. Also he has a history of being 'one of those that got away' for us. Which is something you probably find on every fan forum when a rival star signing doesn't live up to the bill from the get go.
 
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This is a fantastic situation for us. I can't see how he's ever going to fit in a Klopp team. He'll be one of their highest-paid players and expecting to start pretty much every game. Cocks up!
 
How come Klopper, an actual Pool supporter, is more sensible in here about one of Liverpool's players than a Bayern Fan?
 
Hansinity said:
Insane weird takes here.

I would take him back at Bayern immediately. I wish he would still play for us. He is the main reason Bayern lacks so much balance now.
If you ask most Bayern players who is the best player they have ever played with they all mention Thiago. Lewandowski put him over Kimmich, Neuer in his vote. Davies mentioned Thiago over Lewandowski, Neuer, Kimmich.


It is so funny , that many he find excuses for Rashford when he doesn't play well ( like still impacted by a back injury months ago :D) , or Bruno being tired. Thiago came to Livepool, got injured, got Corona, plays as CM with lots of defensive responsibilitiesfor a team who is obviously ocmpletely out of form and disorganized and struggles HEAVILY with injuries. But yeah , must be world class immediately ! No other Liverpool player is shining recently. Maybe someone tells me next that Rashford is better than Salah and Mane.

Thiago was insanely important defensively for Bayern in their Champions League run, especially in Gegenpressing and when getting pressed. Always has a solution for both direction.
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:lol: Must. Protect. Sanctity. Of. The. Bundesliga.
 
Hansinity said:
Insane weird takes here.

I would take him back at Bayern immediately. I wish he would still play for us. He is the main reason Bayern lacks so much balance now.
If you ask most Bayern players who is the best player they have ever played with they all mention Thiago. Lewandowski put him over Kimmich, Neuer in his vote. Davies mentioned Thiago over Lewandowski, Neuer, Kimmich.


It is so funny , that many he find excuses for Rashford when he doesn't play well ( like still impacted by a back injury months ago :D) , or Bruno being tired. Thiago came to Livepool, got injured, got Corona, plays as CM with lots of defensive responsibilitiesfor a team who is obviously ocmpletely out of form and disorganized and struggles HEAVILY with injuries. But yeah , must be world class immediately ! No other Liverpool player is shining recently. Maybe someone tells me next that Rashford is better than Salah and Mane.

Thiago was insanely important defensively for Bayern in their Champions League run, especially in Gegenpressing and when getting pressed. Always has a solution for both direction.
Click to expand...

Good to see that we have another poster continuing the legacy of annoying/know it all Bayern/bundesliga followers.
 
If this Thiago can go back to the Bundesliga and be a top midfielder there, it says a lot more about the league than the player.
 
Hansinity said:
Insane weird takes here.

I would take him back at Bayern immediately. I wish he would still play for us. He is the main reason Bayern lacks so much balance now.
If you ask most Bayern players who is the best player they have ever played with they all mention Thiago. Lewandowski put him over Kimmich, Neuer in his vote. Davies mentioned Thiago over Lewandowski, Neuer, Kimmich.


It is so funny , that many he find excuses for Rashford when he doesn't play well ( like still impacted by a back injury months ago :D) , or Bruno being tired. Thiago came to Livepool, got injured, got Corona, plays as CM with lots of defensive responsibilitiesfor a team who is obviously ocmpletely out of form and disorganized and struggles HEAVILY with injuries. But yeah , must be world class immediately ! No other Liverpool player is shining recently. Maybe someone tells me next that Rashford is better than Salah and Mane.

Thiago was insanely important defensively for Bayern in their Champions League run, especially in Gegenpressing and when getting pressed. Always has a solution for both direction.
Click to expand...

its funny you mention this. Rashford is 23. Re Bruno... he came into a club that you describe Liverpool as. When Bruno joined Manchester United (Not as WC) the club was completely out of form, disorganised and had loads of players out injured. Yet, he transformed the team.

Thiago came into a well oiled machine, got injured okay... but he has been playing for the last 7/8 games, for someone who is WC he is definitely showing that.

So, if Thiago was insanely important, surely Bayern cannot be classed as favourites for the CL? losing your best midfielder defensively and not replacing him?
 
romufc said:
its funny you mention this. Rashford is 23. Re Bruno... he came into a club that you describe Liverpool as. When Bruno joined Manchester United (Not as WC) the club was completely out of form, disorganised and had loads of players out injured. Yet, he transformed the team.

Thiago came into a well oiled machine, got injured okay... but he has been playing for the last 7/8 games, for someone who is WC he is definitely showing that.

So, if Thiago was insanely important, surely Bayern cannot be classed as favourites for the CL? losing your best midfielder defensively and not replacing him?
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And Bayern is anything but favourites for now if you have seen them play. Absolutely bad defensively, no control in their midfield. If it wasn't Neuer Bayern would have lost 5+ games more for sure.

Liverpool is not a well injured machine anymore for many reasons. In the last 7/8 , how many players played well except 2 /3 players ? . Basically everyone is playing a level below. Of course Thiago is not playing too well right now , but there are many others underperforming in the team. It is not fair to deny him class in my opinion.

prateik said:
If this Thiago can go back to the Bundesliga and be a top midfielder there, it says a lot more about the league than the player.
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He was also a top midfielder in the Champions League.
 
Lets file this one under "sad mistake" and return to how things were before. I'll drive Thiago to Munich myself.
 
Hansinity said:
And Bayern is anything but favourites for now if you have seen them play. Absolutely bad defensively, no control in their midfield. If it wasn't Neuer Bayern would have lost 5+ games more for sure.

Liverpool is not a well injured machine anymore for many reasons. In the last 7/8 , how many players played well except 2 /3 players ? . Basically everyone is playing a level below. Of course Thiago is not playing too well right now , but there are many others underperforming in the team. It is not fair to deny him class in my opinion.



He was also a top midfielder in the Champions League.
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Last season he was good

But all his other seasons at Bayern were average in the CL.

Let's not forget he did feck all v the midfield he was supposed to improve in 2019.
 
Hansinity said:
He was also a top midfielder in the Champions League.
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Was*
edit: also, the CL performance was massively overhyped. What was it? 3 games? Playing for a ridiculously good Bayern side.. He didnt exactly stand out as being stellar in past seasons.

SilentStrike said:
Like Sané you mean?
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What about Sane ? Last I heard he had done his cruciate and was out for about a year... and then left City. No clue how he is doing..
 
Hansinity said:
And Bayern is anything but favourites for now if you have seen them play. Absolutely bad defensively, no control in their midfield. If it wasn't Neuer Bayern would have lost 5+ games more for sure.

Liverpool is not a well injured machine anymore for many reasons. In the last 7/8 , how many players played well except 2 /3 players ? . Basically everyone is playing a level below. Of course Thiago is not playing too well right now , but there are many others underperforming in the team. It is not fair to deny him class in my opinion.



He was also a top midfielder in the Champions League.
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https://m.skybet.com/football/champions-league/event/26257020

Bayern Munich are favourites.

Again you compared him to Bruno who came into a crap average team and propelled it.. everyone expected Thiago to take Liverpool to another level, little did they know its a level below what they were at.

No one is denying him as a class player, he has done well but its only in the last year that everyone has really talked him up. Would you not think a class player like him could have played better?

Bayern have a terrible defence though.
 
Borys said:
I still maintain Thiago situation in Liverpool is similar to Pogba at United. You can create great video of him passing the ball around, or going past two players with with a sublime dummy, but only watching the full game will show he doesn't quite fit the team.

Both very good players in the right system, but for different reasons they feel somewhat forced into the team. And both would look better in slower pace league.
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Pogba has more range to his game though in terms of passing, goals, physicality and athleticism. Thiago works well in his 10x10 square but doesn't really affect much outside of that.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Pogba has more range to his game though in terms of passing, goals, physicality and athleticism. Thiago works well in his 10x10 square but doesn't really affect much outside of that.
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Different players, I'd say Thiago passing is superior but it's irrelevant. The biggest similarity is they both look much better on the ball than without it, and they are both used for someone else doing the hard work for them (which simply won't work considering the way Liverpool and United play).

Like I said, they would probably get away with that in other leagues. I'd certainly expect Pogba to boss Italian league, and Thiago Spanish Primera Division.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
was hoping they get on really well and bugger off somewhere else :lol:
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You clearly don't know Dutch-German interactions then! :D

(OK, that's actually a little cliché'd and old-fashioned now; but it's much more fun to keep that idea going than think it's all love & peace now.)
 
I am just happy we didn’t sign him. Imagine all the abuse and accusations United and Ole would be getting if he had joined us and played like that.
 
It's still too early to write off someone like Thiago, as is the case with most new signings in their first season. Due to their injuries and shoe-horned CB partnership we've yet to see their full strength team. That said, it's probably not been the dream start they wanted and I do agree with some others that every little thing he did was magnified, even the most basic passes. Pogba outperformed him in both our games against them and didn't get a fraction of the praise.

On paper Henderson - Fabinho - Thiago sounds like a great midfield, with a bit of luck we'll never have to see it.

His signing was worth it for this Tweet alone:

 
Hansinity said:
He was also a top midfielder in the Champions League.
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I'm sorry he's a top midfielder I agree. But the teams he was part of were probably the best Bayern sides ever during the CL runs. This guy just found out the Prem aint no joke on you physically. I mean I would've loved him at United because he's fecking A quality, but what he's showing right now is just terrible. And I'm glad he's doing it for the Poolers. That doesn't mean he wont come good again. He needs to work harder because the guy is like I said one of the top midfielders in Europe.
 
United Junkie said:
I'm sorry he's a top midfielder I agree. But the teams he was part of were probably the best Bayern sides ever during the CL runs. This guy just found out the Prem aint no joke on you physically. I mean I would've loved him at United because he's fecking A quality, but what he's showing right now is just terrible. And I'm glad he's doing it for the Poolers. That doesn't mean he wont come good again. He needs to work harder because the guy is like I said one of the top midfielders in Europe.
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Now thats a post I can work with, thank you for a unbiased view. I full agree with you.
 
Hansinity said:
Insane weird takes here.

I would take him back at Bayern immediately. I wish he would still play for us. He is the main reason Bayern lacks so much balance now.
If you ask most Bayern players who is the best player they have ever played with they all mention Thiago. Lewandowski put him over Kimmich, Neuer in his vote. Davies mentioned Thiago over Lewandowski, Neuer, Kimmich.


It is so funny , that many he find excuses for Rashford when he doesn't play well ( like still impacted by a back injury months ago :D) , or Bruno being tired. Thiago came to Livepool, got injured, got Corona, plays as CM with lots of defensive responsibilitiesfor a team who is obviously ocmpletely out of form and disorganized and struggles HEAVILY with injuries. But yeah , must be world class immediately ! No other Liverpool player is shining recently. Maybe someone tells me next that Rashford is better than Salah and Mane.

Thiago was insanely important defensively for Bayern in their Champions League run, especially in Gegenpressing and when getting pressed. Always has a solution for both direction.
Click to expand...

He was great at Bayern. Many of us, including me, thought he'd walk Liverpool to the league, but he's been underwhelming and a bad fit. Their own fans are questioning his impact.

What's difficult to understand?
 
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