Thiago Alc*ntara | Retires

kaiser1 said:
Thiago was only world class in the last of his 7 seasons at Bayern. He was average for the first 6 seasons at Bayern
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This so what people don't get. I don't know if average is the right term but somehow this myth has been whipped up that he's been sensational for years and is some all time great CM that everyone must trip themselves over.

He's not. Excellent last year but he's had many years of inconsistencies, injuries etc at Bayern. Nobody thought of him as Europe's elite CM or one of, until last year. Maybe in terms of talent but not peformances.
 
People still calling him a brilliant player are just refusing to accept that they bought into the hype. He is nowhere close to brilliant.
Very good.. massively overrated for some reason on the caf.
 
He's barely played, clearly not at full speed and team I told you so is already in full force. Somehow I'm not surprised.
 
RooneyLegend said:
He's barely played, clearly not at full speed and team I told you so is already in full force. Somehow I'm not surprised.
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I’m not convinced Klopp has learnt how to shape the team with Thiago there. I think the original plan was to play Fabinho with Thiago to allow the latter some freedom.

We look really unbalanced since Thiago came in.
 
Klopper76 said:
I’m not convinced Klopp has learnt how to shape the team with Thiago there. I think the original plan was to play Fabinho with Thiago to allow the latter some freedom.

We look really unbalanced since Thiago came in.
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This was always the risk with Thiago, so much of what went right for Liverpool was based on that hard working trio in midfield, disrupting that was always going to present some tricky tactical problems.

That said, the drop off in form of Robertson and particularly Alexander-Arnold this season suggests that Klopp had the right idea in mind. You can’t rely on 25 assists a season from your full backs forever, and adding some creativity to the midfield was probably needed.
 
No Spring Chicken said:
This was always the risk with Thiago, so much of what went right for Liverpool was based on that hard working trio in midfield, disrupting that was always going to present some tricky tactical problems.
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I've said all along, the drop off in motivation will come, and they'll struggle when they have to bring in more new players and break up the harmony. The decline in motivation has been steady for a while, even throughout the league win, and was bound to accelerate after it. Klopp will have an insane amount of work on his hands to get things back to where they were.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
This so what people don't get. I don't know if average is the right term but somehow this myth has been whipped up that he's been sensational for years and is some all time great CM that everyone must trip themselves over.

He's not. Excellent last year but he's had many years of inconsistencies, injuries etc at Bayern. Nobody thought of him as Europe's elite CM or one of, until last year. Maybe in terms of talent but not peformances.
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This. Even for Barcelona when people were saying he’s the next Xavi, I couldn’t see it because in every game he would make sloppy passes and give away possession.

He can have world class games but they’re once every 5-6 games and then he will revert back to being nonexistent
 
He will get better, he’s a brilliant footballer and will adjust soon enough, although he defo should have had some more bookings
 
Lay said:
This. Even for Barcelona when people were saying he’s the next Xavi, I couldn’t see it because in every game he would make sloppy passes and give away possession.

He can have world class games but they’re once every 5-6 games and then he will revert back to being nonexistent
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I don't have an issue with people rating him. His top level was always very high. But he's had only one season of being consistently excellent. It's like VVD where people take a short peak and run with it. My only point is don't equate him with the likes of Modric, he does not have that sort of pedigree over a number of years.
 
Way too early to write him off given the circumstances.

That said, I remember thinking in the summer that I'm not sure he really suits Liverpool's style of play all that much. Feels like they have been at their best in previous years when they have more or less by-passed the midfield by playing the ball quickly from van Dijk or Alisson to either full back or behind the opposing line for Salah or Mane to run on to. Might be that I am wrong (I don't watch them all that much), and might be that Thiago was bought to do just that (from a deep lying position) or to provide an alternative way of playing. You get the feeling that they are struggling to identify exactly what they need in midfield though. Keita, which was another high profile midfield buy which hasn't really worked, seems to be more of a box-to-box player to connect the lines lines. I don't really get the plan in their midfield at the moment, and I am not sure they really need to move away from the type of midfielders they have been successful with recently (a couple of runners together with a defensive midfielder).
 
He will be considered an upgrade to our XI. I don’t think Klopp knows what his plan is with Thiago and how to use him to improve his last season team, not yet at least. The best and likely possible thing happens is that he’s turning 30 this year means his injury prone issue could get worse as he gets to his 30ish and Liverpool might end up not find a way to get the best out of him and will run out of time.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
He will be considered an upgrade to our XI. I don’t think Klopp knows what his plan is with Thiago and how to use him to improve his last season team, not yet at least. The best and likely possible thing happens is that he’s turning 30 this year means his injury prone issue could get worse as he gets to his 30ish and Liverpool might end up not find a way to get the best out of him and will run out of time.
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I actually thought he was older than that! He looks physically shot on the pitch already, like a mid-30s player. Looks like Bayern mugged the Scouse. Fair play to them.
 
No Spring Chicken said:
This was always the risk with Thiago, so much of what went right for Liverpool was based on that hard working trio in midfield, disrupting that was always going to present some tricky tactical problems.

That said, the drop off in form of Robertson and particularly Alexander-Arnold this season suggests that Klopp had the right idea in mind. You can’t rely on 25 assists a season from your full backs forever, and adding some creativity to the midfield was probably needed.
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I saw an article pointing out Liverpool have always had the lion’s share of the ball the past few seasons, and Thiago therefore wasn’t making a big difference in this regard. But he is a different kind of player and I wonder if the lack of end product from full backs is partly because they don’t seem to be putting the wingers up against full backs as much at the moment, creating overlaps. The ball just isn’t ferried across in the same way as when there was a flatter, more dynamic three. Presumably the possession is concentrated in different areas of the pitch now too. Thiago looks a bit like Jorginho to me, though his performances are far better. It’s a question of “How does this player actually hurt other teams?”

I’d also say since Thiago’s come in, passing forward through lines a bit more, more of the chances seem to be falling to Firmino and he simply isn’t as good a finisher as the other two forwards. I think this has been noticeable.
 
Really glad we didn’t sign him, would have probably turned into another VdB situation but just more high profile where people would be shocked how our PE teacher doesn’t know how to use the 2nd coming of Xavi.
He will improve as his impact can hardly get any worse, but it will take time and even then it might turn out that he is just not a good fit for them.
But to his credit at least he will always have the record of making 1 million 5 inch passes when he came on for the 2nd half against 10 men Chelsea.
 
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Fans are so reactionary. He's was never that good all of a sudden. Give me a break.
He's in a new league. More importantly, he's not a Klopp midfielder imo. Klopp is all about transitions into the wide areas. That's not Thiago's game.
He would have been the perfect DM for us imo.
 
2mufc0 said:
He has his hipster fans but I don't think he's ever been considered no. 1.
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I thought he was the best in the world last year and top 3 in 16/17. Nothing hipster about it, just a casual assessment from what I saw.

He was clearly never going to fit into Klopp’s system and style from last year so you would assume he was bought with a change of style in mind. They had a lot of issues in the last third of last season and it seemed possible they were coming to the end of their cycle, so he could help transition to a new one. Right now it’s a complete mismatch.

The trouble is that relies a lot on Thiago transitioning smoothly into a new league a few months before turning 30. I’m sure that more often than not it doesn’t work out that way. Moving between clubs in the same league can drive an instant impact, but across countries I’m sure even most superstars near their peak are quite poor in the first season. I guess Ballack is the closest comparison here. Wasn’t very impressive in general and definitely took a while to get up and running.
 
Adisa said:
Fans are so reactionary. He's was never that good all of a sudden. Give me a break.
He's in a new league. More importantly, he's not a Klopp midfielder imo. Klopp is all about transitions into the wide areas. That's not Thiago's game.
He would have been the perfect DM for us imo.
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What about Gundogan?

He played well under Klopp. I don’t buy he’s not a Klopp midfielder. He’s joined a team that’s run out of ideas with all the forward players badly out of form.
 
Reminds me so much of Verón being added to Fergie’s classic midfield and looking completely out of place, with United going from champions to well off the pace.

He’s a fecking great player and youse are all fecking idiots.
 
prateik said:
People still calling him a brilliant player are just refusing to accept that they bought into the hype. He is nowhere close to brilliant.
Very good.. massively overrated for some reason on the caf.
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I went with the masses of hype thinking I'd missed something. All I remember is he was massively hyped as a kid vanished, then suddenly got back on peoples radar in his later 20s.

After watching him for Liverpool, sure, he's tidy on the ball, passes it around nicely but he doesn't seem to do much at all.
 
prateik said:
People still calling him a brilliant player are just refusing to accept that they bought into the hype. He is nowhere close to brilliant.
Very good.. massively overrated for some reason on the caf.
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All on the back of a few one legged CL games his stock went through the roof.

For years he was a big part of Bayern exiting the CL in the most tame fashion.

Bayern fans complained about him a lot for years.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/thiago-alcântara-2016-17-performances.427167/page-6
 
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I'm basing my opinions on what he's acheived so far in a Liverpool shirt. What he's done before that is irrelevant! He's screwing Liverpool lifting a wage on those performances. Say what you like about Shaqiri but he gives his all when he's out on the field. Doesn't always work out but at least he puts himself on the line each time he gets his opportunity.
What surprises me the most is the fact the manager let a show pony play the full 90+ mins in a game they desperately needed to win.
Ok for me though with Liverpool on their way out of the title race!
 
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Brwned said:
I thought he was the best in the world last year and top 3 in 16/17. Nothing hipster about it, just a casual assessment from what I saw.

He was clearly never going to fit into Klopp’s system and style from last year so you would assume he was bought with a change of style in mind. They had a lot of issues in the last third of last season and it seemed possible they were coming to the end of their cycle, so he could help transition to a new one. Right now it’s a complete mismatch.

The trouble is that relies a lot on Thiago transitioning smoothly into a new league a few months before turning 30. I’m sure that more often than not it doesn’t work out that way. Moving between clubs in the same league can drive an instant impact, but across countries I’m sure even most superstars near their peak are quite poor in the first season. I guess Ballack is the closest comparison here. Wasn’t very impressive in general and definitely took a while to get up and running.
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He wasn't even the best Bayern midfielder last year imo. Agree about play style, he takes too many touches for Klopp's system.
 
I agree - he is a BIG DIRTY TWAT and gets away with lots of fouls with ALL referees.
 
Bojan11 said:
What about Gundogan?

He played well under Klopp. I don’t buy he’s not a Klopp midfielder. He’s joined a team that’s run out of ideas with all the forward players badly out of form.
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Gundogen is a lot more mobile than Thiago. Better game IQ also. In my opinion Thiago isnt on Gundogen's level.
 
He's obviously still a superb footballer, but he was never going to thrive under Klopp. His footballing instincts, like his parentage, is part Brazilian and part Spanish. The La Masia in him prizes possession, and the Brazilian impulse is to be patient and attack when the moment is right. Klopp likes direct attacking football and nonstop, intense waves of attacks. It's not a criticism of either of them, but it was always going to be a mismatch. At times I'm sure his quality will shine through and he'll look better, but it will never be a natural fit.
 
DatIrishFella said:
Gundogen is a lot more mobile than Thiago. Better game IQ also. In my opinion Thiago isnt on Gundogen's level.
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I think it will be quite hard to find even Dortmund fans that agree with this. City fans probably don't know Thiago good enough.
Gündogan is good and he may be a little bit faster than Thiago but i really think that 99% of people who really know both players will favor Thiago.
 
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