There is absolutely no justification in calling for Mourinho's head

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Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
I can't believe what I'm reading. How about supporting a manager that won two trophies in his first year and currently has us second in the league and in the Champions League knockout stages? You're getting totally carried with this stuff.
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I'll never support that man. Ever. He's a disgrace to our club. I'm disgusted at the levels of support he retains. Those 2 trophies, had literally ANY OTHER CLUB in the league won them we'd be splitting our sides laughing at their supporters celebrating two nothing trophies which presented nothing opponents in a downhill slalom to the final.

I'm not getting carried away i'm just getting started. And I know tons of reds, match going, who feel just like me.
 
getupkid said:
I'll never support that man. Ever. He's a disgrace to our club. I'm disgusted at the levels of support he retains. Those 2 trophies, had literally ANY OTHER CLUB in the league won them we'd be splitting our sides laughing at their supporters celebrating two nothing trophies which presented nothing opponents in a downhill slalom to the final.

I'm not getting carried away i'm just getting started. And I know tons of reds, match going, who feel just like me.
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:annoyed:
 
getupkid said:
We will never be champions under Mourinho.

In terms of the title of this thread. There is literally every justification for wanting Mourinho sacked. He's already becoming a liability and he's only been at the club some 15 months. His transfer dealings have been atrocious, the football we play is prehistoric, and he is already flirting with his next club like the managerial slag that he is. We deserve much better and all the teenage Mourinho fangirls who populate this place hopefully will disappear to his next club along with him.

Change is in the air, i can smell it. I've got little or nor faith in Woodward to get things right by design. But maybe if they are looking for someone who isn't just a chequebook tactician they'll be forced to think a little more progressively and who knows, maybe through sheer good luck we'll end up with a manager we actually deserve and someone who finally will be fit to follow Sir Alex.

In the meantime I'd be getting ready for a very bumpy final three or four months of this season.
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This is hands down the worst post I have read on this forum.
 
getupkid said:
I'll never support that man. Ever. He's a disgrace to our club. I'm disgusted at the levels of support he retains. Those 2 trophies, had literally ANY OTHER CLUB in the league won them we'd be splitting our sides laughing at their supporters celebrating two nothing trophies which presented nothing opponents in a downhill slalom to the final.

I'm not getting carried away i'm just getting started. And I know tons of reds, match going, who feel just like me.
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This is true about the big clubs. Not the rest. I’ve never understood the people who brag about winning those two tin cups as if they’re some kind of achievement for a club of our size and stature.
 
Borden said:
This is true about the big clubs. Not the rest. I’ve never understood the people who brag about winning those two tin cups as if they’re some kind of achievement for a club of our size and stature.
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The League Cup I'll grant you; but, the Europa League/UEFA Cup is one of only two European trophies and was the one trophy we'd never won before. We shouldn't be snooty and down upon it; very few clubs ever experience winning a European trophy (indeed any trophy) and we should we remember how lucky we are. Of course we want to be in the Champions League every year, but we weren't good enough at the time.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
The League Cup I'll grant you; but, the Europa League/UEFA Cup is one of only two European trophies and was the one trophy we'd never won before. We shouldn't be snooty and down upon it; very few clubs ever experience winning a European trophy (indeed any trophy) and we should we remember how lucky we are. Of course we want to be in the Champions League every year, but we weren't good enough at the time.
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I don’t get this argument. To me it’s a bit like a big club celebrating winning the Championship trophy the year after they got relegated. Nobody does that. They celebrate/are happy/relieved about the resulting promotion. Do you honestly think we’d have given a crap about the EL if it didn’t yield CL qualification, or if we hadn’t messed up our league season to the point of dropping out of top four? No way, we’d have (rightly) seen it as a distraction, and probably looked to get knocked out ASAP, or at least played our b/c team

But I’ll give Mourinho one thing, he had the foresight to know we might depend on winning the EL for CL qualification. Though it really shouldn’t have been necessary.
 
We are still second in the league and it's been like tears and tantrums in here the last few days after a little indifferent streak of form.
Ok, it's only early November and anything can happen but maybe people are so hot under the collar because they aren't addressing the elephant in the room.
And that elephant is the noisy neighbours, Abu Dabhi F.C. who have just got off to a flying start, conquering all before them, playing the sort of football that people feel by rights we should be playing. Maybe we just can't bear the fact that they could go for the treble, OUR treble, or even end the season as Invincibles.
Maybe, if it wasn't them, and you step back a little, things wouldn't be that bad. We have been in disarray for a few years now and still need a lot of fixing. But you have got to have faith that things will get better, someone has to be allowed to get on with it, we have to have patience for a while longer with Jose. Feck Mailonline and their ugly made up stories. City will probably buy, sorry win the Premiership this year but we can't make it that easy for them.
As I said, it's only November.
 
Borden said:
I don’t get this argument. To me it’s a bit like a big club celebrating winning the Championship trophy the year after they got relegated. Nobody does that. They celebrate/are happy/relieved about the resulting promotion. Do you honestly think we’d have given a crap about the EL if it didn’t yield CL qualification, or if we hadn’t messed up our league season to the point of dropping out of top four? No way, we’d have (rightly) seen it as a distraction, and probably looked to get knocked out ASAP, or at least played our b/c team

But I’ll give Mourinho one thing, he had the foresight to know we might depend on winning the EL for CL qualification. Though it really shouldn’t have been necessary.
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I don't see the comparison between winning the Europa League and winning the English second tier. One is a European trophy and the other isn't. There are 92 English league clubs; how many of them have won the UEFA Cup? Though it isn't anything like the Champions League, it's worth winning in its own right. We should never be embarrassed to win a trophy, even if it isn't the biggest. That win will be in the club's history books forever. If we're in a cup, we may as well try to win it.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
I don't see the comparison between winning the Europa League and winning the English second tier. One is a European trophy and the other isn't. There are 92 English league clubs; how many of them have won the UEFA Cup? Though it isn't anything like the Champions League, it's worth winning in its own right. We should never be embarrassed to win a trophy, even if it isn't the biggest. That win will be in the club's history books forever. If we're in a cup, we may as well try to win it.
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I agree.
 
Why is there a thread like this when there is no thread on Jose needing to be sacked? All this discussion can fit into an existing Jose thread, non?
 
@Cee90 -Haha,it's true though,isn't it?Theres absolutely no chance of Jose getting sacked if we qualify for the CL(which we will)...If we finish 3rd and win the FA cup,then Woodward and the owners will see it as tangible progress...To go from 5th,6th to top 3 is progress....they will back Jose again in the transfer window and they"ll expect a title challenge in his 3rd season....
 
Nikelesh Reddy said:
@Cee90 -Haha,it's true though,isn't it?Theres absolutely no chance of Jose getting sacked if we qualify for the CL(which we will)...If we finish 3rd and win the FA cup,then Woodward and the owners will see it as tangible progress...To go from 5th,6th to top 3 is progress....they will back Jose again in the transfer window and they"ll expect a title challenge in his 3rd season....
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It is likely, yes.

However, we are assuming that Jose will even want to stay here next season. He has started playing games in the media, speaking of PSG. I wouldn't be completely shocked to see him quit United for PSG next season.

I know he has always come across as a bit of a miserable bastard, but he just doesn't seem content at United to me.
 
Lindelof and Mkhitarayan have been very bad recently, however the other signings have been fantastic. Matic and Bailly are already my favourite players.
 
@Cee90 - I completely get what your saying,he's seeing ghosts everywhere and I guess it must be very hard for him to see Pep run away with the league.His attitude and his brooding demeanour is really irritating and the quality of our football is light years behind City....Having said all this,we should still get behind him and give him a 3rd season,but let's not rush in with a new contract...Lets back him in next summers window and let's see if he can seriously challenge for the league next year...
 
Unfortunately for Mourinho he's arrived in the midst of City blowing another half a billion quid on players. We can't compete with their bottomless pit of oil money in a single window. Mou has made some great signings for us, but there's still a lot of deadwood we need to sell and replace - but it's neither cheap or easy in the current market.

We just have to be patient. There is no miracle manager out there who could turn our current squad into champions overnight.
 
The problem is that our players are simply not good enough. I do not think even SAF would win with this lot. Look at our defence. If not for DeGea we will be in trouble. Our full backs are not good enough. Neither is our midfield. We got over run by even Stoke and Huddersfield. Unless you get quality players no manager can compete with the competition who has better players.
Jose, sets up his teams to defend well but to counter attack quickly. We do not have a players to do that as we have no leader in defence and without Pogba we are terrible. Mikhi has been a big disappointment as I do not know how and why he lost it.
 
Bastian said:
Why is there a thread like this when there is no thread on Jose needing to be sacked? All this discussion can fit into an existing Jose thread, non?
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To be honest I think this was a bit of masterful wumming by the Wumminator and people jumped straight to it. As there are actually very few posts that have been circulating saying he should be sacked.

What it has done tho is get all the people quick to jump to Jose’s defence all riled up and they are out with their bats trying to whack people posting post after post about how silly it is. Absolute genius by Wumminator.
 
To be fair Jose had been totally backed in the transfer market until pereisc (who I think would have been a great signing as he would have played and excelled at LWB, not at the expense of martial etc) but the price put on him was crazy even in this market. We have loads of money but it's true we can't really compete with city or psg for a squad overhaul for each new manager (having achieved very little post Fergie, where does it end?) but we still broke the world transfer record last season. We need a better overal plan as I'm sure the board will want to start seeing some return on that investment before they go all in again. They've unfortunately been really good at backing the wrong managers up to now.

It's been a frustrating few weeks for sure but I still believe Jose is the man to at least shift the deadwood and to acquire some top talent that will suit the PL and we should have a solid platform on which to build and go forward with whoever comes in after. Any manager would have struggled after LVG and moyes. Struggle- we are still second in the league.... things might even get worse before they get better but I think at least the players respond to this manager and if he stays he'll eventually weed out the lazy or underperforming players for better or worse.
 
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We need to shift Mata, Young, Valencia, Smalling and Shaw at least. Mikhi if he doesn't come good this season. This is a huge overhaul.
 
Ali Dia said:
To be fair Jose had been totally backed in the transfer market until pereisc (who I think would have been a great signing as he would have played and excelled at LWB, not at the expense of martial etc) but the price put on him was crazy even in this market. We have loads of money but it's true we can't really compete with city or psg for a squad overhaul for each new manager (having achieved very little post Fergie, where does it end?) but we still broke the world transfer record last season. We need a better overal plan as I'm sure the board will want to start seeing some return on that investment before they go all in again. They've unfortunately been really good at backing the wrong managers up to now.

It's been a frustrating few weeks for sure but I still believe Jose is the man to at least shift the deadwood and to acquire some top talent that will suit the PL and we should have a solid platform on which to build and go forward with whoever comes in after. Any manager would have struggled after LVG and moyes. Struggle- we are still second in the league.... things might even get worse before they get better but I think at least the players respond to this manager and if he stays he'll eventually weed out the lazy or underperforming players for better or worse.
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Truly belive signing Perisic would have meant the end for one of Rashford/Martial. When the Perisic transfer failed, saying he would have played LWB was the right thing to do for the sake of squad harmony but I find it hard to believe he would have those 2 in a more advanced attacking position over one of his journeymen favourites
 
It will take time to weed out the deadwood and those who have underperformed, but I do think that Mourinho is the one to do it if allowed the time. We are about 4/5 Players from being a top team again and if the manager is backed, he will bring in the right players.

We have players coming back from injury who have been sorely missed,and this has upset our football. We have to make sure that this will be addressed so as we will be prepared for it happening again.

By doing so I think we need to bring in another top class box to box midfielder, as neither Herrera or Fellaini can do this job. We also need more creativity up front and out wide, on the right especially. I hope the manager is given the backing to bring in someone this coming window ( January) so as we can push on.
 
red_devil83 said:
Strawman. Nobody mentioned Rooney. Besides, if you look in the Lukaku thread, plenty of people are criticising him.

You said Lukaku was unproven. You were wrong.
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don't put words in my mouth please. I never said he unproven. I said he is turning out as I feared: tends to disappear in big games and will not be the 30-goal a season man we need (or 20 in the PL)
 
getupkid said:
We will never be champions under Mourinho.

In terms of the title of this thread. There is literally every justification for wanting Mourinho sacked. He's already becoming a liability and he's only been at the club some 15 months. His transfer dealings have been atrocious, the football we play is prehistoric, and he is already flirting with his next club like the managerial slag that he is. We deserve much better and all the teenage Mourinho fangirls who populate this place hopefully will disappear to his next club along with him.

Change is in the air, i can smell it. I've got little or nor faith in Woodward to get things right by design. But maybe if they are looking for someone who isn't just a chequebook tactician they'll be forced to think a little more progressively and who knows, maybe through sheer good luck we'll end up with a manager we actually deserve and someone who finally will be fit to follow Sir Alex.

In the meantime I'd be getting ready for a very bumpy final three or four months of this season.
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Honestly, this is bonkers. First time since 2013, we're in the fecking race for the PL as well as through to the knockout stages since Moyes' disastrous campaign - and you can bet we won't struggle to beat Olympiacos.
 
themoyesboy said:
Unfortunately for Mourinho he's arrived in the midst of City blowing another half a billion quid on players. We can't compete with their bottomless pit of oil money in a single window. Mou has made some great signings for us, but there's still a lot of deadwood we need to sell and replace - but it's neither cheap or easy in the current market.

We just have to be patient. There is no miracle manager out there who could turn our current squad into champions overnight.
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Agree with this. The only way we can compete with their limitless resources is to develop the academy and buy good young players (the signing of Embolo, if true, is a great step forward in this regard).

But we can at least play good football, rather than the dross we've seen recently.
 
mitchmouse said:
don't put words in my mouth please. I never said he unproven. I said he is turning out as I feared: tends to disappear in big games and will not be the 30-goal a season man we need (or 20 in the PL)
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mitchmouse said:
crazy to talk about sacking him but he really needs to make better choices in the transfer market: why did we chase Morata for so long and then opt for a less-proven Lukaku? what did he see in Miki that we don't? some of us here have been saying for ages that we need a pretty good clear out as well as buying top top quality
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Greck said:
Truly belive signing Perisic would have meant the end for one of Rashford/Martial. When the Perisic transfer failed, saying he would have played LWB was the right thing to do for the sake of squad harmony but I find it hard to believe he would have those 2 in a more advanced attacking position over one of his journeymen favourites
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He is playing Young as a wing back so he surely would have played Perisic there, as his crossings are really great. Martial/Rashford would still have got game time.
 
There's no way PSG will bring in Jose. Neymar will not want to play in a team where he has to do more defending than attacking.

Bayern will need a new coach at the end of the season and may fancy him. Guarantees to win Bundesliga every year would appeal to Jose's 'All about me' mentality.

Jose has been brilliant but he's very much a checkbook manager. Utd would be more suited to having a Klopp or a Pochettino - a manager who identifies more affordable players ready for the next level who are not yet valued at crazy amounts. With Klopp there's Salah and Mane for example and with Pochettino there's Dele Alli, Wanyama etc
 
Champagne Football said:
There's no way PSG will bring in Jose. Neymar will not want to play in a team where he has to do more defending than attacking.

Bayern will need a new coach at the end of the season and may fancy him.

Jose has been brilliant but he's very much a checkbook manager. Utd would be more suited to having a Klopp or a Pochettino - a manager who identifies more affordable players ready for the next level who are not yet valued at crazy amounts. With Klopp there's Salah and Mane for example and with Pochettino there's Dele Alli, Wanyama as examples.
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Bayern value culture as well. Jose would be last person they will think of hiring. Ancelotti was sacked because he couldn't maintain standards and there was no beauty in the football. Could you imagine a Bayern side parking the bus at Dortmund? Or failing to string a few passes together? Or hoofing the ball to Martinez/Hummels/Boateng when they are losing?

Jose will only be hired at the clubs where there is a need of instant success and have zero regards to any playing style/culture.
 
All this while we still are second in the league? We don't have a god given right to win the EPL whenever we want it - just because we spent some money and hired a manager with a history of success.

A lot of things need to click together to build such a team and go on a title winning run. Also, it take time and patience. If you folks want instant gratification then I believe this is not the right club to support.

I am absolutely horrified to read some of the posts here. I don't know what these people are smoking. If changing and chopping managers was the way to go then surely we would have won the EPL/UCL in the last 2 years?
 
Subho611 said:
All this while we still are second in the league? We don't have a god given right to win the EPL whenever we want it - just because we spent some money and hired a manager with a history of success.

A lot of things need to click together to build such a team and go on a title winning run. Also, it take time and patience. If you folks want instant gratification then I believe this is not the right club to support.

I am absolutely horrified to read some of the posts here. I don't know what these people are smoking. If changing and chopping managers was the way to go then surely we would have won the EPL/UCL in the last 2 years?
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This has to stop. Is it really difficult to see that we were second in the league 4 games before as well with points level and now we manage to let that lead to grow to EIGHT points and also in a spectacular fashion (deja vu 2011-12). Two cowardly performances against decent sides included.

Yes, we expect our club to be winning. It is you who should be switching clubs because Manchester United is about being the best and not being content with being in CL places. It has been 1.25 years with Jose. If they still need time to 'click' then I will be labelling it as unfathomable. There is no style, no beauty in the football. All I know is that we play like losers on decent opponent's home. And that is not the Man Utd we support.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
This has to stop. Is it really difficult to see that we were second in the league 4 games before as well with points level and now we manage to let that lead to grow to EIGHT points and also in a spectacular fashion (deja vu 2011-12). Two cowardly performances against decent sides included.

Yes, we expect our club to be winning. It is you who should be switching clubs because Manchester United is about being the best and not being content with being in CL places. It has been 1.25 years with Jose. If they still need time to 'click' then I will be labelling it as unfathomable. There is no style, no beauty in the football. All I know is that we play like losers on decent opponent's home. And that is not the Man Utd we support.
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So how long will you give the next manager to do the following?
  1. Play good attacking football
  2. Dominate top 6 opposition both home and away
  3. Win the EPL
If you were a Man City fan, then Guardiola would have been long gone before he could hit this purple patch with the team. Isn't it? Stop acting like your opinion is the only one that makes sense, because it really doesn't.

Also, why should we stop saying we are second? Do we have a god given right to win? Maybe you should realign your expectations based on external environment as well. The Man United you are talking about was had much lesser competition and the best manager in history. There wasn't Chelsea and Man City with their millions. Neither were Spurs so strong as now. Be realistic.
 
When the goals and results dry up, there will be justified criticism because the the veil that covers the monstrosity of "parking the bus football" will be no longer there to cover it up. After the Anfield game he was bragging about him getting the results and trophies and how pretty football and purists never win anything or something of that sort. So when he stops gettings those results and wins, at least some of the supporters who were dissatisfied earlier will come out to ask, where are the results now ? I think that's fair.
 
Subho611 said:
So how long will you give the next manager to do the following?
  1. Play good attacking football
  2. Dominate top 6 opposition both home and away
  3. Win the EPL
If you were a Man City fan, then Guardiola would have been long gone before he could hit this purple patch with the team. Isn't it? Stop acting like your opinion is the only one that makes sense, because it really doesn't.

Also, why should we stop saying we are second? Do we have a god given right to win? Maybe you should realign your expectations based on external environment as well. The Man United you are talking about was had much lesser competition and the best manager in history. There wasn't Chelsea and Man City with their millions. Neither were Spurs so strong as now. Be realistic.
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Really? Both Pep and Jose were hired at the same time. Its easy to see who has had a better influence on the team. One team is playing free flowing attacking football and one team fails to string a few passes together against a decent opponent. Both managers have had same time.

And when we start talking about realigning expectations, then congratulations, your Arsenalization is complete. This is what Wenger instilled in his team and look where they are.

You are just belittling SAF's achievements by saying that the league wasn't competitive enough. Look at the investment our squad has had, and look at the away performances against a top 6 team for last 1.25 seasons. ONE goal scored in EIGHT big away games. We don't even try to play football.

Jose doesn't seem to bother as we are always setup that way. Soon there will be a 'we are still third in the league brigade' and soon everyone will be happy with a CL place.

Conte won the EPL in his debut season. There is literally no justification for Mou if he fails. Is expecting good football too much of a task these days?
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Really? Both Pep and Jose were hired at the same time. Its easy to see who has had a better influence on the team. One team is playing free flowing attacking football and one team fails to string a few passes together against a decent opponent. Both managers have had same time.

And when we start talking about realigning expectations, then congratulations, your Arsenalization is complete. This is what Wenger instilled in his team and look where they are.

You are just belittling SAF's achievements by saying that the league wasn't competitive enough. Look at the investment our squad has had, and look at the away performances against a top 6 team for last 1.25 seasons. ONE goal scored in EIGHT big away games. We don't even try to play football.

Jose doesn't seem to bother as we are always setup that way. Soon there will be a 'we are still third in the league brigade' and soon everyone will be happy with a CL place.

Conte won the EPL in his debut season. There is literally no justification for Mou if he fails. Is expecting good football too much of a task these days?
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Just because we are Manchester United does not mean we have an automatic right to win the league. For chelsea it was a minor blip, otherwise they won the league just 2 seasons before conte took over. It is not the case with us. We have been performing average ever since sir alex retired, suddenly we cannot become title contenders just because we spent 300 million. I do not know how difficult it is to understand that when Jose took over he had no recognised striker, no world class attacking midfielder, no world class midfielder, no winger, no class fullbacks. Basically he had two young attackers, a world class keeper and some average to decent footballers.

I can understand the fans frustration after the anfield game but to call him coward for our game at the bridge is a joke. We started the game with 2 strikers, when was the last time we went to Chelsea and played with 2 strikers. Problem is you guys read too much into the media and rival fans bs. You do not park the bus playing 2 strikers upfront. We started the game very well but then our players could not control a fecking ball and pass properly.

Understand one thing, if Jose is gone now or the end of this season, then we are back to square one. People think ohh poch will come and make Lingard a world beater, No he cannot. Neither can he just bring 6 or 7 players in one window just like jose cannot. Thats how much change we need. In present times 300 million only gets you 5 or 6 world class players and that too if you are lucky. The point is Jose inherited a bang average squad which has been massively overrated by fans like you and me and now expecting jose to make a miracle out of that Junk. Also, let us not forget our most important player Pogba has been absent without leave for last 2 months. So that 300 million becomes 200 million spent.

I am not saying blindly back the manager, no , we need not. But to blame him for everything and act as if we have been winning the league for last 3 years is a joke. I know we are Manchester United and attack should be our mantra but the realistic mantra and the most important mantra for us now is to win the league and if that means draw against big teams away and play to win against them at home (which we do) , we will be fine. And if by chance we do not win the league and finish 2nd then that is a great achievement considering what we have gone through.
 
Conte won the PL with a team that was in crisis the previous season because of a lot of off the field problems created by Jose of course. Jose had won the PL the previous season with the same team. So it was a team that always had the capacity to win the PL. Jose inherited a team that has not been winning the PL for a while. 1 year of Moyes had destroyed the fabric of the team going from the champions of England to the 7th. LVG could only get us into the CL once and then lost the plot for his two years. So we were a struggling team with not enough quality players when Jose took over.
In the mean time the TV money was coming in and all the other teams were able to strengthen their side. There is not much different in quality with most players in the PL. Many smaller clubs have players as good as some we have and maybe even better players. This is the crux of the PL now.
Silva, Aguero and De Bryne were always world class players. When you add Gundogan and Jesus to that you will always get a very quality team. What do we have to compete with that? Only Pogba.
We can say that Jose let De Bryne go and so did SAF when he thought Hazard was not big enough to play in the PL.
 
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