There is absolutely no justification in calling for Mourinho's head

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Jose Mourinho is massively underrated in this forum considering many posts and threads I see.

People need to calm down. Support the manager. Give him time. He WILL deliver.

From his signings, I can already see a strong spine being developed for the team.

If I wasn't aware myself and I relied on so many posts here, I would believe we have not been making obvious progress since he took over or that we are not second on the league table or that we are struggling to qualify for the next round of the CL.
 
Really? Both Pep and Jose were hired at the same time. Its easy to see who has had a better influence on the team. One team is playing free flowing attacking football and one team fails to string a few passes together against a decent opponent. Both managers have had same time.

And when we start talking about realigning expectations, then congratulations, your Arsenalization is complete. This is what Wenger instilled in his team and look where they are.

You are just belittling SAF's achievements by saying that the league wasn't competitive enough. Look at the investment our squad has had, and look at the away performances against a top 6 team for last 1.25 seasons. ONE goal scored in EIGHT big away games. We don't even try to play football.

Jose doesn't seem to bother as we are always setup that way. Soon there will be a 'we are still third in the league brigade' and soon everyone will be happy with a CL place.

Conte won the EPL in his debut season. There is literally no justification for Mou if he fails. Is expecting good football too much of a task these days?
Pep failed massively in his first season. If you were the Man City owner, he wouldn't have lasted the entire season - as is evident with your patience with Mourinho.

There is a difference between realigning expectations and embracing reality. You cannot control the other clubs who have massively improved with outside help. Expecting United to dominate like before is naive.

I agree that our away performances are dire and they need to improve. However, taking into consideration the broader picture, it doesn't warrant a managerial sacking.

We are not always set up that way. Now you are twisting facts to match your theories. I understand you are frustrated by a 1-0 loss to the reigning champions at their home ground which used to be a fortress but this is simply not true.

Of course there is. Leicester also won the EPL, doesn't mean you increase expectations of all managers automatically. Also, Conte has a title winning team and Jose didn't.
 
Pep failed massively in his first season. If you were the Man City owner, he wouldn't have lasted the entire season - as is evident with your patience with Mourinho.

There is a difference between realigning expectations and embracing reality. You cannot control the other clubs who have massively improved with outside help. Expecting United to dominate like before is naive.

I agree that our away performances are dire and they need to improve. However, taking into consideration the broader picture, it doesn't warrant a managerial sacking.

We are not always set up that way. Now you are twisting facts to match your theories. I understand you are frustrated by a 1-0 loss to the reigning champions at their home ground which used to be a fortress but this is simply not true.

Of course there is. Leicester also won the EPL, doesn't mean you increase expectations of all managers automatically. Also, Conte has a title winning team and Jose didn't.
I am not calling out for his head neither I am twisting my theories to suit my agenda. We defended the whole game against Chelsea. Yes we lost at the home of the reigning champions. That doesn't justify the fact that we were outplayed for the 90 percent of the game. It is also not a result of frustration from a single game. I have already mentioned in my previous post that we haven't done anything in the games on the road that matter. The way we down tools is just pathetic.

I am just asking that why we continue to setup to defend first or what you say counter attack. This is clearly not working and we are losing crucial ground on the leaders. The same city beat this Chelsea 1-0 playing exciting football. Why are we so scared of the opponent that we abandon all our and footballing principles?

Unless we have a style, results will keep fluctuating. We attack at home, we defend away. The team can't gel like this.
 
This thread :lol:

Jose will deliver, I have my doubts but it's not easy dealing with City with all the money, we have played 3 out of top 5 (other) and 2 of them away. Yes Huddersfield was a shock but except that we have been fine. Fergie won 3-2 against Chelsea last time he won there and we were leading 3-1 with Chelsea playing with 9 men so it's not an easy place for us to go. We play negative football only when playing away against top sides but I think I can live with that.

That said, Jose's flirting with PSG didn't go well with me but I hope that was just a moment where he had to praise them (interview was for a French media channel). He has my full support till he is with us as he seems to be the only one capable of taking us in the right direction.
 
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I do not think we were set up to defend. We did not have Pogba and hence we were outmanned in midfield. Jose had no choice but to play Mikhi and he was the main cause of the problems we are having now. He cannot hold the ball and neither can he make a decent pass to the attackers. It is simply a lack of quality players. Bailly seems to live in a different world now after his come back. Lindelorf is responsible for the second Huddersfield goal but players like Mata and now Mikhi are simply either not delivering or not good enough. I never thought Mata was good enough. Mikhi, I saw him play for Dortmund and was a quality player then but something has gone wrong as Jose does pick him up but he is not delivering.
 
I am not calling out for his head neither I am twisting my theories to suit my agenda. We defended the whole game against Chelsea. Yes we lost at the home of the reigning champions. That doesn't justify the fact that we were outplayed for the 90 percent of the game. It is also not a result of frustration from a single game. I have already mentioned in my previous post that we haven't done anything in the games on the road that matter. The way we down tools is just pathetic.

I am just asking that why we continue to setup to defend first or what you say counter attack. This is clearly not working and we are losing crucial ground on the leaders. The same city beat this Chelsea 1-0 playing exciting football. Why are we so scared of the opponent that we abandon all our and footballing principles?

Unless we have a style, results will keep fluctuating. We attack at home, we defend away. The team can't gel like this.

Do you think we would have won the game if José had set the team up like City? Remember we were missing Pogba in midfield and have shit full backs. In fact we were pretty positive for the first 20minutes in this game. We came out attacking g with 2 strikers but ran out of steam as they controlled the midfield.

The last paragraph is laughable so won’t comment on that. If those are your expectations then I would recommend FIFA18.
 
Do you think we would have won the game if José had set the team up like City? Remember we were missing Pogba in midfield and have shit full backs. In fact we were pretty positive for the first 20minutes in this game. We came out attacking g with 2 strikers but ran out of steam as they controlled the midfield.

The last paragraph is laughable so won’t comment on that. If those are your expectations then I would recommend FIFA18.
Of course you will label it as laughable. We will lose more ground on the leaders when we line up at the Emirates next month, you better get a copy as well because you are in for a shock if you expect us to get anything from that fixture. Or from the game at the Etihad.

As for whether I think or knew, I have never seen mou's Utd attack at a rival's home so I cant comment. What I have seen is we have scored 1 goal in 8 outings with pogba in 6 of them. What I have seen is that we aren't trying any different approach to make this right. You mentioned shit fullbacks, we have Valencia who is good, and Young who performed really well against Spurs a week earlier, and the city which I talked about had delph at LB and Aguero missing. Its all about the tactics, when they are right, replacing an injured player won't be much of a problem. However pogba was a big miss but it really doesn't justify us relinquishing any kind of control in midfield, it happens in patches, but for the entirety of the match(bar the hoof ball we played at the end)? no i am not convinced. And people are actually justifying this by saying that we were playing well for 20 mins etc etc.

There is no point in continuing this discussion, as you mark a different opinion as laughable, meanwhile audaciously justifying our poor performances. I hope i am proved wrong, I don't take any pleasure in belittling jose, i am asking out for better approach and setup. But as long as people like you justify the current approach, its difficult to argue.
 
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Some cracking breakdowns in this thread.

People are quick to forget that if you look back a couple of seasons and remember that we were all in agreement that the club had too much 'dead wood' and the likes of Rojo, Jones, Young, Fellani and Valencia were all considered to be not good enough to play for United. Now we're in a position where Jose is getting the best out of most of those and yet the reality is, most of them aren't fit for a top team with United's ambitions.

I wonder sometimes if people truly believe that Jose isn't doing a good enough job based on merit or they're actually looking at City and allowing feelings of envy to cloud their judgement. If it's the latter, get a grip of yourself.
 
Some cracking breakdowns in this thread.

People are quick to forget that if you look back a couple of seasons and remember that we were all in agreement that the club had too much 'dead wood' and the likes of Rojo, Jones, Young, Fellani and Valencia were all considered to be not good enough to play for United. Now we're in a position where Jose is getting the best out of most of those and yet the reality is, most of them aren't fit for a top team with United's ambitions.

I wonder sometimes if people truly believe that Jose isn't doing a good enough job based on merit or they're actually looking at City and allowing feelings of envy to cloud their judgement. If it's the latter, get a grip of yourself.
Nobody is calling out for his head. Some posters including me want a better approach in bigger games. That's where we have lacked. Jose has made OT a fortress again and improved defensive players. We need to strike a balance between attack and defense. We're too defense minded in big away games.
 
Some cracking breakdowns in this thread.

People are quick to forget that if you look back a couple of seasons and remember that we were all in agreement that the club had too much 'dead wood' and the likes of Rojo, Jones, Young, Fellani and Valencia were all considered to be not good enough to play for United. Now we're in a position where Jose is getting the best out of most of those and yet the reality is, most of them aren't fit for a top team with United's ambitions.

I wonder sometimes if people truly believe that Jose isn't doing a good enough job based on merit or they're actually looking at City and allowing feelings of envy to cloud their judgement. If it's the latter, get a grip of yourself.

Most of the players you mentioned are perfectly fit for a team like United, you just have to look at Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, they have the same type of players in Nacho, Vasquez, Rafinha, Digne, Deulofeu, Paulinho, Aleix Vidal, Asamoah, Rudy, Lichsteiner.

Our only problem is that our first eleven isn't complete since we lack a starting left back and a starting right winger/midfielder/forward. Valencia, Jones and Rojo are good enough to start when fit and the others are decent squad players.
 
Nobody is calling out for his head. Some posters including me want a better approach in bigger games. That's where we have lacked. Jose has made OT a fortress again and improved defensive players. We need to strike a balance between attack and defense. We're too defense minded in big away games.
I would argue that we're not equipped to go toe to toe with the other teams in terms of attacking football. We don't have the pace in midfield to break and possession football isn't Jose's game. We're missing arguably two of the best players at holding the ball up (Zlatan and Pogba) so we couldn't even keep the ball for a prolonged period of time against Chelsea. Currently, the best option tactically is to let the opposition have the ball and wait for them to overstretch themselves or make a mistake. I have no doubt our tactics will change when we have a fully fit squad and players that give us different options but at the moment we're making the best of what we have.

Most of the players you mentioned are perfectly fit for a team like United, you just have to look at Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, they have the same type of players in Nacho, Vasquez, Rafinha, Digne, Deulofeu, Paulinho, Aleix Vidal, Asamoah, Rudy, Lichsteiner.

Our only problem is that our first eleven isn't complete since we lack a starting left back and a starting right winger/midfielder/forward. Valencia, Jones and Rojo are good enough to start when fit and the others are decent squad players.
I'm not saying they shouldn't play for us. Great teams are built upon squad players but as you said, we need more quality in those positions because those players are no longer starters for us.
 
Most of the players you mentioned are perfectly fit for a team like United, you just have to look at Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, they have the same type of players in Nacho, Vasquez, Rafinha, Digne, Deulofeu, Paulinho, Aleix Vidal, Asamoah, Rudy, Lichsteiner.

Our only problem is that our first eleven isn't complete since we lack a starting left back and a starting right winger/midfielder/forward. Valencia, Jones and Rojo are good enough to start when fit and the others are decent squad players.

This has been the story of MUFC for far too long, never completing a puzzle, and the fact yet another manager is relying on jones, rojo, smalling, shaw, which is 80% of our defensive options. Our transfer activity this summer even with perisic onboard is so underwhelming. How many years does managers need to have before realizing jones, smalling and rojo cannot be relied upon, hell we needed new attacking input, na lets keep with the same has last year, who were really doing the business last year. We always know come November time what our level really is, and we have found that out again. It still bothers me in some of the players that fills our squad, not just squad players but consistent starting 11 players some of them are still not up the task

I'm not saying they shouldn't play for us. Great teams are built upon squad players but as you said, we need more quality in those positions because those players are no longer starters for us.

Jones, smalling, mata, young, valencia and herrera these days, miki unfortunately are filling the positions that need better players.

Our teams looks like this in terms of a starting 11
DDG
?? ?? bailly ??
matic pogba
?? ?? rashford/martial
lukaku

That is how our starting 11 is currently at, jones smalling, young, mata, herrera, along with valencia, and miki unfortunately fill these positions, and for the level fans want us at, these players going forward are not going to cut it
 
Of course you will label it as laughable. We will lose more ground on the leaders when we line up at the Emirates next month, you better get a copy as well because you are in for a shock if you expect us to get anything from that fixture. Or from the game at the Etihad.

As for whether I think or knew, I have never seen mou's Utd attack at a rival's home so I cant comment. What I have seen is we have scored 1 goal in 8 outings with pogba in 6 of them. What I have seen is that we aren't trying any different approach to make this right. You mentioned shit fullbacks, we have Valencia who is good, and Young who performed really well against Spurs a week earlier, and the city which I talked about had delph at LB and Aguero missing. Its all about the tactics, when they are right, replacing an injured player won't be much of a problem. However pogba was a big miss but it really doesn't justify us relinquishing any kind of control in midfield, it happens in patches, but for the entirety of the match(bar the hoof ball we played at the end)? no i am not convinced. And people are actually justifying this by saying that we were playing well for 20 mins etc etc.

There is no point in continuing this discussion, as you mark a different opinion as laughable, meanwhile audaciously justifying our poor performances. I hope i am proved wrong, I don't take any pleasure in belittling jose, i am asking out for better approach and setup. But as long as people like you justify the current approach, its difficult to argue.

Of course it is laughable - your point is that we would have remained very close to Man City if we would have attacked more in our away games. Like it is some sort of a switch which Jose is deliberately not flipping out of the malice in his heart. The reality is more nuanced. Our squad isn't as good as theirs, because they have spent much more. Our most important player is out injured and we are competing on all fronts.

Again, your midfield comment is laughable. Do you really think that a midfield of Matic, Herrera and Mikhi would have dominated Chelsea's midfield?:lol:

I am not justifying poor performance. I know we have been poor over the last 3 weeks. However, it's not a simplistic solution of "go attack" that will help unfortunately. Our squad is just not suited to that kind of a game.
 
This has been the story of MUFC for far too long, never completing a puzzle, and the fact yet another manager is relying on jones, rojo, smalling, shaw, which is 80% of our defensive options. Our transfer activity this summer even with perisic onboard is so underwhelming. How many years does managers need to have before realizing jones, smalling and rojo cannot be relied upon, hell we needed new attacking input, na lets keep with the same has last year, who were really doing the business last year. We always know come November time what our level really is, and we have found that out again. It still bothers me in some of the players that fills our squad, not just squad players but consistent starting 11 players some of them are still not up the task



Jones, smalling, mata, young, valencia and herrera these days, miki unfortunately are filling the positions that need better players.

Our teams looks like this in terms of a starting 11
DDG
?? ?? bailly ??
matic pogba
?? ?? rashford/martial
lukaku

That is how our starting 11 is currently at, jones smalling, young, mata, herrera, along with valencia, and miki unfortunately fill these positions, and for the level fans want us at, these players going forward are not going to cut it

Valencia is one of the most consistent performers in the team and one of the best players in his position in the league, yet you consider him not good enough. Whilst completely ignoring how poor Bailly has been recently. If Rojo comes back to his form of last season he'll be a great addition, but looks like you've forgotten how well he's played previously and want him gone?
Our defensive options are fine, aside the leftback issue, midfield (as there's no Pogba) and right wing are of concern. Team needs some minor surgery over the next 2 windows.
 
Valencia is one of the most consistent performers in the team and one of the best players in his position in the league, yet you consider him not good enough. Whilst completely ignoring how poor Bailly has been recently. If Rojo comes back to his form of last season he'll be a great addition, but looks like you've forgotten how well he's played previously and want him gone?
Our defensive options are fine, aside the leftback issue, midfield (as there's no Pogba) and right wing are of concern. Team needs some minor surgery over the next 2 windows.

This is the problem, if rojo comes back, smalling, jones, rojo, shaw are injury prone. I think we are 3 defenders short, valencia going forward we need an upgrade at RB. I would look to replacing both mata and miki with a better allround midfielder and a new RW, if united do that maybe we would see a huge improvement in the team, but while we continue to have faith in some injury prone players, attacking players who are not the quickest think we always going to come up short.
 
I am not calling out for his head neither I am twisting my theories to suit my agenda. We defended the whole game against Chelsea. Yes we lost at the home of the reigning champions. That doesn't justify the fact that we were outplayed for the 90 percent of the game. It is also not a result of frustration from a single game. I have already mentioned in my previous post that we haven't done anything in the games on the road that matter. The way we down tools is just pathetic.

I am just asking that why we continue to setup to defend first or what you say counter attack. This is clearly not working and we are losing crucial ground on the leaders. The same city beat this Chelsea 1-0 playing exciting football. Why are we so scared of the opponent that we abandon all our and footballing principles?

Unless we have a style, results will keep fluctuating. We attack at home, we defend away. The team can't gel like this.

The majority of fans feel exactly the same as you mate despite what Redcafe would have you believe.
 
I thought the fascinating part of Stamford Bridge was the actual team talk that Jose gave at half time.

Of course, we don't have a clue what he said but those ten minutes or so prior to Morata's goal were, at least to me, some of the most ineffective minutes I've ever seen from players in a red shirt (and there've been a few), simply because we had a bunch of defeated men, utterly paralysed, clueless, with practically no idea of how to stop Fabregas and co - and, as we know, the game was up right there even if we had the Marouane mountain to come and tried to go long, high and not very handsome.

He may have said kick em harder, get closer to them, stop them playing - but it was obvious that perhaps the players wanted an offensive change to change the momentum of the game, even if this was nigh was on impossible. Perhaps he feared another 4-0 drubbing if he'd taken that route.

It felt like a drubbing anyway.

All this said, Jose's job to make us more competitive, motivated and harder to beat is on track. All he really needs is a 'big game' result - against Arsenal or City - to exorcise a particular ghost that he himself enjoys creating.

Maybe it's time for that particular pendulum to swing his way.
 
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i apologise unreservedly. I can only say what I must have meant (and it's too long ago to remember for certain) was that he had not played at a club the size of United and, like more than a few before him, was not used to the pressure while Morata has been at at least two huge clubs as well as in the Spanish national team (of which expectations are higher than in the Belgium side)
 
He is playing Young as a wing back so he surely would have played Perisic there, as his crossings are really great. Martial/Rashford would still have got game time.
Ashley young=/=Perisic. That 352 would have had Ibra (once fit) and Lukaku up top with Martial and Rashford filling in as subs, playing cup games. Jose has a heavy bias for his own signings.
 
The majority of fans feel exactly the same as you mate despite what Redcafe would have you believe.
Add to that, we have way too many posters masquerading these poor performance using silly excuses. We played the same way against better opposition on the road when we had Zlatan and Pogba. Heck, even I got a response saying that our midfield stood no chance against Cesc-Kante-Bakayoko. It will obviously fail because we weren't setup to play football in the first place! We will obviously lose the midfield battle when playing with a 2 man midfield against a high press 3 man mid and its a fact that if you lose the midfield, you lose the game.

And how do we try to counter this? We play 5 defenders. This has been a trend for more than a year now, I thought we would be something different this season. But same old tactics against better opposition. Hopefully we beat teams at home because we can't afford to drop points there.
 
Although i dont always agree with Mours tactics (going defensive at Anfield for example when they were in a poor run and we should have turned the screw) getting rid of him really isnt the answer right now.

He basically inherited a team of older.players from Fergie...a few kneejerk signings from Moyes...and a half baked philosophy from LVG. Its a bit like your granny giving you her 60yr old sewing box and saying 'its yours...sort it out'. You open it up to find cotton and needles all over the place. You know theres some good needles and some good cotton in there but youve got to untangle it all before you can put it all back in a more functioning state.

Mours brought in a spine which is the start. Bailley, Matic, Pogba, Lukaku, Ibra. You can see where he is going and planning. But what he needs to do now is build thd fringe players and unfortunately for him thats where we are seriously lacking. You can see why he wanted Peresic (or Bale) its that fringe player that can.play on his own and get the spine involved. Current players cant do that.

I always said this United side needed 3 transfer windows and i still believe that.

But getting rid of Mour is totally the wrong answer because a new manager would simply start again. Did we not.learn anything with Fergie? It takes time, you stick with world class managers and get behind them and allow them time to rebuild.

Rome wasnt built in a day and neither will United.
 
Although i dont always agree with Mours tactics (going defensive at Anfield for example when they were in a poor run and we should have turned the screw) getting rid of him really isnt the answer right now.

He basically inherited a team of older.players from Fergie...a few kneejerk signings from Moyes...and a half baked philosophy from LVG. Its a bit like your granny giving you her 60yr old sewing box and saying 'its yours...sort it out'. You open it up to find cotton and needles all over the place. You know theres some good needles and some good cotton in there but youve got to untangle it all before you can put it all back in a more functioning state.

Mours brought in a spine which is the start. Bailley, Matic, Pogba, Lukaku, Ibra. You can see where he is going and planning. But what he needs to do now is build thd fringe players and unfortunately for him thats where we are seriously lacking. You can see why he wanted Peresic (or Bale) its that fringe player that can.play on his own and get the spine involved. Current players cant do that.

I always said this United side needed 3 transfer windows and i still believe that.

But getting rid of Mour is totally the wrong answer because a new manager would simply start again. Did we not.learn anything with Fergie? It takes time, you stick with world class managers and get behind them and allow them time to rebuild.

Rome wasnt built in a day and neither will United.

There is some truth in what you say but with one very , very fatal flaw. Mourinho has never ever stayed anywhere long term. By his past track record he's about half way through his tenure. So we will have to start all over again anyway. This could change maybe , but I think this great club deserves more. He's been sniffing around PSG recently and this should stop. He should either come out publicly and commit to another 5 years ( thereby implying that he will be breaking the habit of his career) or just feck off and leave us to get on with the job that we will inevitably have anyway in 18 months time.

I'd kinda like to give him time (despite my serious reservations) but will he give us time and himself time? He never has before. To be fair to him , he does always leave a club after winning something significant with them , however , as you say United are a long term project that extends beyond his normal cycle. He's going to need more than another 18 months - will he have the patience? The players know he's a 2-3 year coach. I'd hate that if I was a player. But imagine the likes of Rashford and Martial already looking to a future with a manager who believes in more expansive football?

Stick with it because Rome wasn't built in a day?

I think this is a question to ask of him first before asking the likes of me to stick with him. Especially if he doesn't keep his gob shut about PSG.

I agree we are a long term project and that's exactly why he should go. He doesn't fit into any long term strategy. No other manager is likely going to adopt his style , so we are doomed to having to start again. Unless we start taking on managers who are more Fergie like (even though he was a one off) and a bit more brave then we will end up forgetting who we are. At least if we did that then we would have an identity and some consistency. I mean honestly , I expected our results to dip after 2013 , but I still thought we would be at least TRYING to replicate Fergies style. Who would have thought back then we would have been playing such dross and dire football 2014- 2017 ?

I just don't think you are thinking long term enough.
 
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Why would there be bias and an agenda against our manager? Maybe just maybe people aren't happy with his performance here so far.
I think most United fans who are against Mourinho still hold grudges from the past. I said it when Jose was first appointed as manager, he'll never be unanimously accepted by our fanbase no matter what he wins.
 
Would be insane to underestimate what Mourinho achieved in his career, he's a winer and will end as a historical character of football imo.
This is an obviety, another thing is: do you agree/like his style and specially his approuch in big games?
I dont.
For example, i respect Simeone a lot. But i respect what hes doing THERE; i dont want United playing that kind of football, no way.
 
There's no doubt Jose is a great manager. But him and United just don't seem like a good fit at all, i don't think he's proper settled in Manchester either, him still living in a hotel after 18 months tells me that, he always looks to be unhappy and always making excuses even before a game has started and basically sucking life out of a game before its started, along with (occasionally) even sucking life out of games itself with tactics.

I can't say I look forward to big games with Jose's United like i did with SAF's United because more chance than not your going to get a defensive bore draw, setting the team up not to lose and to nick a 1-0 win on a counter attack.

Sure, he's installed something back into United that was missing since Sir Alex left, we was relatively successful last season, 2nd in the league right now and in the last 16 of the Champions League.

But got to say i wouldn't be too disappointed if he left for PSG in the summer, especially if it meant us getting Pochettino.
 
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You should have seen Darmian play for Italy against Sweden. Had a very good game and putting in crosses from either right or left foot. He was playing on the left side. He is in fact shot from outside the box and hit the post with the Swedish keeper beaten.
 
I think most United fans who are against Mourinho still hold grudges from the past. I said it when Jose was first appointed as manager, he'll never be unanimously accepted by our fanbase no matter what he wins.

I think that's a bit patronising to be honest. Despite his arrogance and hypocrisy I also like things about him , his desire to be a winner and passion for the game. It's this simple. United fans who are unhappy with him have a vision of how they want to see their team play and it's not about being some glorified entertaining West Ham or a flaky Arsenal who have no grit and don't win titles , it's about good quality positive football. Effective football can be entertaining as well (as Fergie proved). He won't take us in this direction and he's taking us down stream when we need to be going up stream , so I think he should go asap. He doesn't fit with the past history or long term future identity of United.

It depends why you follow United really. If all you are interested in is getting results so you can have the Monday morning bragging rights then fine. If you are a genuine fan of positive football then you will immediately see that Jose is not a fit for us.

You either get it by now or you will never get it.
 
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As long as we finish in the top four, then he most certainly shouldn’t get sacked.

I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if he walked away though.
 
I think that's a bit patronising to be honest. Despite his arrogance and hypocrisy I also like things about him , his desire to be a winner and passion for the game. It's this simple. United fans who are unhappy with him have a vision of how they want to see their team play and it's not about being some glorified entertaining West Ham or a flaky Arsenal who have no grit and don't win titles , it's about good quality positive football. Effective football can be entertaining as well (as Fergie proved). He won't take us in this direction and he's taking us down stream when we need to be going up stream , so I think he should go asap. He doesn't fit with the past history or long term future identity of United.

It depends why you follow United really. If all you are interested in is getting results so you can have the Monday morning bragging rights then fine. If you are a genuine fan of positive football then you will immediately see that Jose is not a fit for us.

You either get it by now or you will never get it.

Pretty much this. There's more to football than simply results. Jose doesn't really 'fit' at our club. A marriage of convenience if you will.

Jose's name won't be sung or praised after he is gone. Both sides will know this.
 
His tactics against Liverpool was spot on. Anfield is not an easy place to go and win. I think SAF has only won their twice and lost a lot more. So getting a draw was good enough. yes they had one chance and we had once chance. Klopp was so scared that he refused to change his formation and his subs were all like for like as he knew that if he opened up United will attack. United tends to score in the final 10 minutes and hence Klopp was mindful of that and kept things tight.
His PR is better than Jose's and that is why most people are believing his story of how he attacked and Jose parked the bus. There was no parking of the bus as the same way there was no bus against Chelsea. The fact our players played poorly has got everything to do with our loss.
 
Getting draws and defeats away against top sides are hardly shocking results. Normally you loose the league by loosing points with smaller clubs, because in the league between top clubs they all steal points from each others.
 
His tactics against Liverpool was spot on. Anfield is not an easy place to go and win. I think SAF has only won their twice and lost a lot more. So getting a draw was good enough. yes they had one chance and we had once chance. Klopp was so scared that he refused to change his formation and his subs were all like for like as he knew that if he opened up United will attack. United tends to score in the final 10 minutes and hence Klopp was mindful of that and kept things tight.
His PR is better than Jose's and that is why most people are believing his story of how he attacked and Jose parked the bus. There was no parking of the bus as the same way there was no bus against Chelsea. The fact our players played poorly has got everything to do with our loss.

Nope, Fergie won a minimum of 5 times there.

I'm tired so not going to google but off the top of my head

Van Persie pen win
Sheeshy
Cole double
Diego
Hughes/Kanchelskis inspired 1-2
 
His tactics against Liverpool was spot on. Anfield is not an easy place to go and win. I think SAF has only won their twice and lost a lot more. So getting a draw was good enough. yes they had one chance and we had once chance. Klopp was so scared that he refused to change his formation and his subs were all like for like as he knew that if he opened up United will attack. United tends to score in the final 10 minutes and hence Klopp was mindful of that and kept things tight.
His PR is better than Jose's and that is why most people are believing his story of how he attacked and Jose parked the bus. There was no parking of the bus as the same way there was no bus against Chelsea. The fact our players played poorly has got everything to do with our loss.

With PR (or brainwashing) making you believe all that, Klopp's PR isn't a patch. You played a team battling relegation at the time with a horrendous defence that concedes 3 to 4 goals for fun. All this while being pretenders to top spot. Your lack of ambition is beginning to kick in and a shock victory against Spurs is not going to change that. Don't be too surprised WHEN a dominant 2nd spot becomes a worrying 3rd spot and then a shaky 4th before too long. 5th and then the inevitable 6th(!) is not a million miles away either.
 
With PR (or brainwashing) making you believe all that, Klopp's PR isn't a patch. You played a team battling relegation at the time with a horrendous defence that concedes 3 to 4 goals for fun. All this while being pretenders to top spot. Your lack of ambition is beginning to kick in and a shock victory against Spurs is not going to change that. Don't be too surprised WHEN a dominant 2nd spot becomes a worrying 3rd spot and then a shaky 4th before too long. 5th and then the inevitable 6th(!) is not a million miles away either.

This I agree with. I hate it when people say "we're second". We are, only by the barest of margins. Our attacking football is static and stale. It's more of a systemic problem than a "we miss Pogba" problem.
 
With PR (or brainwashing) making you believe all that, Klopp's PR isn't a patch. You played a team battling relegation at the time with a horrendous defence that concedes 3 to 4 goals for fun. All this while being pretenders to top spot. Your lack of ambition is beginning to kick in and a shock victory against Spurs is not going to change that. Don't be too surprised WHEN a dominant 2nd spot becomes a worrying 3rd spot and then a shaky 4th before too long. 5th and then the inevitable 6th(!) is not a million miles away either.
What a disingenuous load of nonsense.
 
This I agree with. I hate it when people say "we're second". We are, only by the barest of margins. Our attacking football is static and stale. It's more of a systemic problem than a "we miss Pogba" problem.

They say "oh we're second" or that we're "spoilt brats" , or the classic "it's about results not entertainment" (zzzz) . All these accusations to deflect away from what those of us with eyes can see all too clearly.....

1) He doesn't fit United , either the past or the future identity of the club.
2) We are still playing awful football far too often for it not to be very concerning
3) The players don't enjoy the Jose system and flair/expression has been stifled.
4) Jose won't hang around long anyway so what's the fecking point - (go to PSG please)
5) We will have to get a new manager soon/eventually and it will all have to change, so why not do it now?
6) United have mismanaged SAF leaving since 2013
7) We have really bought badly and expensively with only a few exceptions
8) Our early season "form" was obviously a false dawn that Jose stifled with his "tactics"
9) In summary - As Lefty says - there's a system problem

Human beings have never been good at opening their eyes to really uncomfortable truths.......brace yourselves for more "spoilt brat" accusations and taunts like "go and watch City then"
 
1) He doesn't fit United , either the past or the future identity of the club.

What is this identity though? If there's any identity we have, it's that on an average day, we play entertaining football, we win things and try to encourage young players while also splashing out on the occasional expensive signing.

On a more concrete note, I've seen allusions to having attacking wingers running down the touch line and midfielders making late runs into the box for the cross is a part of the identity we should be looking to build, but I disagree with that. Tactical systems come and go and as far as wingers go, I don't really think modern wingers really fit the hug touchline - receive ball - beat man and cross it in mould. So we obviously adapt to that. Having said that, I'll also somewhat contradict myself and say that we're *not* a team that wants to play a highly tactical possession based football. For one, we don't really have the players for it and even if we did I think most United plans prefer one / two-touch lightning quick counter attack goals than a goal after stringing together 200 passes and finding a 1v1 with the keeper. If I were to compare it to clubs, we should be the Real Madrid compared to City's Barcelona for example. Now we are a long way away from the current RM team and City are a long way away from peak Barcelona but I think that's the direction both clubs are heading.

Given all of this, if we eventually start playing like Mourinho's RM side, I would personally call it fitting the identity of the club quite well.
 
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Still feel like we've entered into a scorpion and the frog type of deal here with Mourinho, and we're the frog.
 
His tactics against Liverpool was spot on. Anfield is not an easy place to go and win. I think SAF has only won their twice and lost a lot more. So getting a draw was good enough. yes they had one chance and we had once chance. Klopp was so scared that he refused to change his formation and his subs were all like for like as he knew that if he opened up United will attack. United tends to score in the final 10 minutes and hence Klopp was mindful of that and kept things tight.
His PR is better than Jose's and that is why most people are believing his story of how he attacked and Jose parked the bus. There was no parking of the bus as the same way there was no bus against Chelsea. The fact our players played poorly has got everything to do with our loss.
:lol: so actually Klopp was the coward even though his team spent the entire game on the front foot. You should be Mourinho's PR manager.
 
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