We missed one player, it's not like Liverpool were a full team too, they didn't have Mane, Lallana, Clyne and Coutinho had just come back from an injury.
There is absolutely no justification in calling for Mourinho's head
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Yes, but he was our only attacking midfielder who can be considered as atleast approaching world class. Especially with our otherwise average attacking options.
Liverpool actually have a better attack than we do on their best days, but we have an overall better team and manager.
Pogba being our only world class attacking player(I don't agree with this actually) is again a fault of Mourinho. Didn't Mourinho come out and say in both the transfer windows that he got all of his transfer targets? Yes he didn't get Perisic, but 7 out of 8 ain't bad. BTW good to see a Chennaite here in the cafe.
We missed 3 midfeilders in one position alone,unlike if we had missed mid a defender a fullback a midfelder and just returned fellani from injury. Our balance as missing, there's was not.
We parked the bus but it's pool's fault for not opening the game up?
No, but they were in the better position to do so. If we opened that game up we would have got destroyed.
OMG - Here's the problem. The voice of fear and anti-football. There's a difference between neurotically and pathologically fearing an opponent and having a healthy respect. You treat it as if "parking the bus" and going completely "gun ho" are the only two options in football.
I think the appropriate tactics would have been to have conceded that they would have more possession than us and we needed shape and discipline to avoid being badly opened up (not gun ho). However , I think we should have provided much more threat on the ball and been prepared to attack occasionally when the time was right. Considered counter attacking is different from parking the bus. It means you have to be a little bit braver and not show too much respect to your opponent. It's not as if Liverpool were there for the taking but they did (and still do have) very serious defensive problems that can be exploited. We should have put more fear into them that their weaknesses could be found instead of just offering next to nothing when we had the ball.
I also think avoiding going too deep into our box would have been a better idea and contesting the ball with a bit more intensity about halfway inside our half (instead of on the edge of our area. This would have given us more of a hold into the game and provided a better base for some proper counter attacks. This would mean that Liverpool would have been a bit more cautious themselves about going at us too much. If the away team can provide a proper , tangible threat on the break then it's a great form of defence because it stops that situation where the home team just constantly picks up the ball and comes at you again and again in wave after wave of attacks (and you get trapped in your own penalty box).
It still would have been a game of chess to an extent but a much less predictable one that would have given us a chance of winning. Would we have got "destroyed"? I kind of doubt it somehow. We might have lost 2-1 ,3-2 or maybe won 2-1 , 3-2? But destroyed? Nope.
Football , like most sports , is a pay off somewhere between abject fear and gun ho recklessness. The golfer can lay up or go for the green , the batsman can go for a boundary or play a straight bat , a tennis player can go for the lines or the middle of the court , a rugby team can kick it or keep the ball passing...you get the idea. In between abject fear and gun ho recklessness is considered bravery and it's where good sport is played. Teams/players who lack the bravery to play the right shot or the right tactics will be overtaken by other teams who are prepared to at least play a bit. It's considered bravery that I wanted to see at Anfield , not pathological fear.
Jose is just not brave enough for United. It's as simple as that.
Its not jose, Some of the players are not brave enough for united, You gotta be realistic about the quality in the squad first and then put on expectations accordingly. Jose is getting 80% best out of the squad.
They are not the same level of scholes rooney ronaldo carrick giggs vidic ferdinand evra neville ilk that one can have those level of expectations from them.
is this for real? then do you think it makes more sense to go for the win by taking off coutinho firmino and salah for ox sturridge and solanke? instead of something like one of can/wijnaldum/henderson for sturridge or ox?
People can moan all they want. The facts will not change:
- Jose is one of the best managers in world football.
-He is United's manager at the moment.
-The team has made significant progress since he took over.
- We are currently fighting for the title.
- We are currently topping our CL table
Nobody is a soothsayer. Maybe he'll eventually flop as our manager. Maybe he will succeed. No one really knows. What is important is to support the club and in doing so, we should support the manager and players while they are here. This for me, is 'the United Way'. If Jose leaves tomorrow morning, he would do so leaving us with what looks like a very strong spine for a few years to come. We should be very happy for this.
The game against Newcastle shows clearly that the manager seems to tweak his tactics based on the type and quality of personnel available to him, the circumstances of the game in view and the opponents being faced. One can point to many differences with SAF but this is a trait they share. Sir Alex was a master of tweaking his team's tactics to fit the occasion. That's one of the reasons he was and is still my favourite manager.
People need to cut Jose some slack. Let him serve his term. His results will provide enough data to properly judge his legacy as a United manager. For now, I think he's doing a great job and if given some more time, he will build a very strong squad for us.
- Jose is one of the best managers in world football.
-He is United's manager at the moment.
-The team has made significant progress since he took over.
- We are currently fighting for the title.
- We are currently topping our CL table
Nobody is a soothsayer. Maybe he'll eventually flop as our manager. Maybe he will succeed. No one really knows. What is important is to support the club and in doing so, we should support the manager and players while they are here. This for me, is 'the United Way'. If Jose leaves tomorrow morning, he would do so leaving us with what looks like a very strong spine for a few years to come. We should be very happy for this.
The game against Newcastle shows clearly that the manager seems to tweak his tactics based on the type and quality of personnel available to him, the circumstances of the game in view and the opponents being faced. One can point to many differences with SAF but this is a trait they share. Sir Alex was a master of tweaking his team's tactics to fit the occasion. That's one of the reasons he was and is still my favourite manager.
People need to cut Jose some slack. Let him serve his term. His results will provide enough data to properly judge his legacy as a United manager. For now, I think he's doing a great job and if given some more time, he will build a very strong squad for us.
Yes , but sometimes they do show what they are capable of and it's not as if we don't have players that can express themselves. In any case , bravery isn't always about innate skill or talent , it's a mindset. The mindset of a team is always ultimately the managers responsibility. He has to encourage it and develop it into his team. Players will only be brave if they follow it from and sense it from their manager. Otherwise what is he there for? Watching how a team responds to adversity , set backs etc and also how brave they are will always give you a clue as to the mindset of the manager.
- Jose is one of the best managers in world football.
most definitely WAS not IS
-He is United's manager at the moment.
Until he gets bored with us in 18 months time and we have to change again completely
-The team has made significant progress since he took over.
It could hardly get any worse after LVG , my Gran could have made "progress"
- We are currently fighting for the title.
Sad Denial
- We are currently topping our CL table
...we'll get through and then get found out big time by someone who can actually play
Once I read your highlights, it just occurred to me that there's no point wasting time discussing this with you. Keep having fun trolling.
By encourage, you mean he has to tell them to attack? I don’t think any manager has to tell the players to attack. He is selecting a player like Rashford to attack. You can be asked to be more defensively aware. That doesn’t mean you don’t have attacking freedom.
The mindset and mentality comes from confidence in players and the confidence of the players come from their skill set and abilities to play with the ball at their feet. Without the skillset and abilities you can't show your mentality at this level , hoax mentality without the skill set you will get caught at this level.
With crucial Injuries to players who has those skill set no one can play on the very same level with no skill set and abilities to back your daring confidence or you get caught napping like Liverpool or arsenal team get caught time to time.
Letting newbies post in the mains was a great idea.
I absolutely agree with your point. Have seen a massive drop in quality of posts ever since the mains have been opened for the newbies.
Back on topic: I think we are currently in the strongest position that we have been since Fergie retired. Have had enough dross with LVG and Moyes. And people sprouting non sense about parking the bus and anti-football. Fergie had parked the bus against City and we went on to lose the title and the match. Same in the FA cup Semi against them. We famously parked the bus against Barcelona, don't hear many complaints against that. Also people forget, We had Ronaldo along with Vidic and Ferdinand. Pogba is only one who is in the same mould (removing De Gea out of the equation for the time being).
Coming to the Chelsea game, since 2003, we have been battered by them at Stamford Bridge (albeit two or three times). Lose to them recently and suddenly shit hits the fan? Some people here, jeez. And the anti Jose agenda is clear to see. Ask them for an alternate name, they shall come out with naught. At least give Jose three years before calling for his head.
Calling for his head is crazy for few reasons but because his cult here is patrolling, it seems you cant even highlight things for critic, everything negative and true is marked as myth, having discussion with that bunch is no go, because its same like you having discussion with Trump supporters.
It is the myth that SAF always wins at Anfield. I think he may have won once or twice there at the most.
Insightful.
I recall quite a few wins.
I'm sick of hearing this.
You'd think we parked every man behind the ball ffs. We simply didn't. What we also didn't do is go all out attack, doing so we would have been an his lated with their attack at An field.
We had a massive hit on one key area of the park that stopped us playing our usual attacking play. We tried other ways, but Liverpool clogged the centre of the field with 3 midfielders and we don't have another plan/option. We tried with what we had and we did nearly score and if we did it would be a different conversation.
But look. we're still 2nd after having 8 injuries 3 to key players.
our manager is a pragmatic man who will try his hardest to get us to the title and that means protecting the downsides first.
forget city. We're not city. There's too many spoilt fans out there that are looking across town and spitting their dummies out. We're united. We play our way and that way is getting results and winning stuff.
I want to be at the end of the season with trophies not sat there with feck all saying, yeah at least we beat Liverpool 5-4!
The players you mentioned were played to their strengths. When Fergie changed plan and made us more cautious these same players did not look so comfortable and we had many poor and dysfunctional performances, particularly in CL or when we wen to City, Liverpool or Chelsea. When you look at yesterday's game you see players that are very attack minded looking pretty damn good, but as soon as we go defensive or cautious we start to look a bit suspect. So the manager does have a big say in the way players play.
Always surprised at the statement about "realistic about United quality". Every player is an international standard player. Add two or more WC players, e.g. Pogba and Zlatan, and the whole team performs two gears higher. If we could get another WC player it would be some first 11.
You sick of hearing that we parked the bus when we parked the bus? btw teams play very attacking football with 3 midfielders.
No mate, we missed three players in the midfield and had three out of form at the same time. It was a very bad situation. We had an almost non-existent midfield. We can blame Mourinho all we want and he deserves his sticks but we need to be realistic about our situation. Miki, Herrera and Mata were in poor form while Pogba, Fellaini and Carrick were injured. It totally messed up our balance and play quality. We could see the clear difference when almost everyone was fit and firing against Newcastle.
What are the odds that posts like this will get you the promotion?
Carragher two ogs.
Pallister
He won there loads of times you mad man.
At least 10 or 11 times over his career
Terrible post. Please don't get promoted.
Do you want to respond to any of the points I've made. He will get bored of us soon , we are not in a title challenge because City are just too good and he is past his best.
It always amazes me that us fans get slated for "not getting behind the manager " when Jose himself won't commit long term to the club nor to it's long term traditions of good football. He he won't commit then neither will I and I don't see why I should be pestered for voicing some uncomfortable truths.
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you."
Oscar Wilde
What the hell is this forum? Thought police central? If what you want is some tepid , stale debate that's based on some contrived vision of what all United fans "should" think then why have a forum at all? I always get nervous when I see people trying to close down a debate or silence voices.
I'd better stay quiet for a bit otherwise there will be a "knock on the door" in the middle of the night and I'll be shot at dawn. I'll resurface when it's safe to comment on the next "park the bus" Jose nonsense tactics at Arsenal. I'm off to work on my fake passport and dig my tunnel.........
I agree jose might not be a long term manager for us but i think some strong decisions he has taken are good in terms of signing and getting rid of players. If we can just cover few of our spots in the team, like full backs and maybe an additional winger, we can really play strong and confident. Of course jose is a practical man who hates to loose more than feel happy to win. But with a strong signings, he might leave us with a strong core of he leaves us.
yawn...
This thread is like a matchday thread veering on a knee jerk moment in time but in a continuum.
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Don't put us in the same breckets as this guy please. Some of us have better insight then full posters, but we're just not arsed to type everything.
...and I totally understand this pragmatic way of thinking about him. It makes sense on one level. I get it but there's a bigger picture here. Granted he has bought pretty well and he's better than LVG ( although that's hardly difficult to achieve).
The problem will come when we have to re-think our playing style all over again in 18 months time or so with a group of players who have been trained to be frightened of the better teams and who are steeped in the traditions of playing rubbish anti football when the crunch really comes.
Let's see how the big crunch games go (eg away at Arsenal etc etc). I predict a repeat of the Liverpool chess game and Chelsea debacle. We'll play some decent stuff until then and get some momentum going and then he will retreat into fear and bus parking once again , thereby sapping the creativity and expression out of his very own team. Then he will complain about his own team's commitment (eg huddersfield) whilst remaining oblivious to the fact that it was his stale tactics that put a spanner in the works of his own team.
a hard place to go over the years but hey we have a great record there - probably the best away team results there over the last 30 years.
THere may have been a big van parked from time to time :-)
Well as you can see, the whole dissatisfaction regarding how jose sets up his team is based on his philosophy that he hates losing more than enjoys winning. That is negative tactic. But with right players we can be solid defensively and win with contest attack. If jose does leave, we should then try to get a manager who doesn't goes on to play like tiki taka or something altogether different but more on the line of counter attacking football. I believe 26 years of a certainty philosophy, and then suddenly the team had to face very different set up, very drastically its the reason of our downfall. We cannot make the same mistake twice.
I'm not Jose's biggest fan by any stretch but it really is staggering to see this thread getting so many replies. Usually the team has to be doing badly before people want rid of the manager.
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