There is absolutely no justification in calling for Mourinho's head

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dobbs said:
It's because we look past results and take notice of performance. If you do that and keep last season in mind it's possible to see a few problems ahead. The frustration comes from those problems being relatively easy to solve.
Click to expand...

Believe me I don't 'look past' performance. Hence why I came out of OT after West Ham and said to my mate - 'well that was exactly the same as last year apart from this time we had a man who takes his chances'. The football hadn't improved, we still weren't carving teams open. We just scored our first chance of the game through Lukaku who then nodded in a game-killing 2nd from a free-kick.

The bit I disagree about is that our problems are easy to solve. LB I will accept is fairly easy to solve, We should have signed one in the Summer, no doubt. The three AMs positions are more tricky. Mhiki has failed. Mata isn't good enough or dynamic enough. Martial and Rashford shouldn't be relied upon as first team regulars at their age. I personally don't watch much European football and I don't know who is out there for us to go and get, but we need three at least imo
 
I beleive that there are mistakes being made and aspects of the current squad's performance that, if we assume are the resposiblity of the manager, could be done better...
  • the players do not cover nearly enough ground - it's actually quite pathetic that we collectively cover, on mean average, the least amount of ground
  • we don't have natural wide players
  • we should be starting Martial and Rashford together

However, I do beleive that Jose is the man.
He might not be perforrming at his best at the moment but I trust he can improve.

I was absolutely delighted when he arrived and I am both still fully behind him and trust that he is the only manager we could have that has the ability to finish a season above Guardiola.
I'm not saying "we will definately win the league under Jose"; I am saying that I think no other available manager could (while Guardiola is at City).
 
Lentwood said:
Believe me I don't 'look past' performance. Hence why I came out of OT after West Ham and said to my mate - 'well that was exactly the same as last year apart from this time we had a man who takes his chances'. The football hadn't improved, we still weren't carving teams open. We just scored our first chance of the game through Lukaku who then nodded in a game-killing 2nd from a free-kick.

The bit I disagree about is that our problems are easy to solve. LB I will accept is fairly easy to solve, We should have signed one in the Summer, no doubt. The three AMs positions are more tricky. Mhiki has failed. Mata isn't good enough or dynamic enough. Martial and Rashford shouldn't be relied upon as first team regulars at their age. I personally don't watch much European football and I don't know who is out there for us to go and get, but we need three at least imo
Click to expand...

The reason I say you're not looking past results is that you're using the results of a couple of games to back your point. You watched those games, you know we didn't play well. So you must understand the complaints.

Easy to solve in a few ways. Like you say just buy a fullback. If we haven't got anyone capable of playing as a 10 don't line up with a 10 at all. Seems straightforward to me. Plenty of other teams don't. If you're struggling in the attacking third don't leave Martial on the bench. If you've got a huge team don't allow your best crosser to go on loan.

I'm not saying all those are flawless solutions but surely they make more sense. I find it maddening.
 
Dobbs said:
The reason I say you're not looking past results is that you're using the results of a couple of games to back your point. You watched those games, you know we didn't play well. So you must understand the complaints.

Easy to solve in a few ways. Like you say just buy a fullback. If we haven't got anyone capable of playing as a 10 don't line up with a 10 at all. Seems straightforward to me. Plenty of other teams don't. If you're struggling in the attacking third don't leave Martial on the bench. If you've got a huge team don't allow your best crosser to go on loan.

I'm not saying all those are flawless solutions but surely they make more sense. I find it maddening.
Click to expand...

Wait, what?
 
Jose is absolutely the right man for the job at this point in time.

I'd love to know who the anti Mourinho brigade would prefer in his place?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Wait, what?
Click to expand...

Pereira. His crossing ability didn't become apparent two months ago.

Anybody whose watched him develop knows the ability he has in that department. We also know the inability the wide men we play each week.
 
Yes, we do need a few more players but we have Pogba, Rojo, and Ibra coming back very soon. We can still challenge for honours this season if we add 1/2 more players in January. No need calling for Mourinho to be sacked already. He did say that it will take maybe 3 windows to get the players he wants and needs. We need to get behind him and the board need to back him also. It will take some time to get rid of more deadwood and get in the right players.
 
Dobbs said:
The reason I say you're not looking past results is that you're using the results of a couple of games to back your point. You watched those games, you know we didn't play well. So you must understand the complaints.

Easy to solve in a few ways. Like you say just buy a fullback. If we haven't got anyone capable of playing as a 10 don't line up with a 10 at all. Seems straightforward to me. Plenty of other teams don't. If you're struggling in the attacking third don't leave Martial on the bench. If you've got a huge team don't allow your best crosser to go on loan.

I'm not saying all those are flawless solutions but surely they make more sense. I find it maddening.
Click to expand...

Just playing Devil's Advocate though, if you were the manager and you KNEW that our attacking players weren't elite standard, would you;

A) Give them even more freedom to do whatever they liked in the hope that we would score more goals?
B) Give them strict instructions to follow in the hope that we are more solid and harder to beat?

That might account for reasons why Jose doesn't pick Martial and Rashford together and may account for why Jose picks players he knows he can count on defensively.

If and when we go out and spend £300m on Griezmann + 2 and we are still playing this way, I will be the first to say it's not good enough but for now and I'm in the 'play to our strengths in order to grind out results' camp because I don't think Man Utd can keep finishing 6th!
 
Dobbs said:
Pereira. His crossing ability didn't become apparent two months ago.

Anybody whose watched him develop knows the ability he has in that department. We also know the inability the wide men we play each week.
Click to expand...

I’ve watched him develop. Calling him “our best crosser” is a huge call, based on very little evidence. And that’s without even getting into the madness of picking someone based on crossing ability alone or the fact that, by all accounts, Mourinho wanted him to stay!

Shit like this really undermines whatever valid criticisms people have of the manager (and they’re not hard to find) as it makes them come across as so ludicrously biased against him you can’t take anything else they say seriously.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’ve watched him develop. Calling him “our best crosser” is a huge call, based on very little evidence. And that’s without even getting into the madness of picking someone based on crossing ability alone or the fact that, by all accounts, Mourinho wanted him to stay!

Shit like this really undermines whatever valid criticisms people have of the manager (and they’re not hard to find) as it makes them come across as so ludicrously biased against him you can’t take anything else they say seriously.
Click to expand...
Is it? Shaw is good at crosses, but we all know he's never going to be seen wearing a United kit again. Valencia has always sucked at crossing, despite that basically being what he does. I can't grasp while Rashford takes corners, it's a long way from his strong point. Lukaku seems good, but we want him in the centre, not on the wing. Martial is pretty good to be fair, but not really his usual style of play. Mata is very good at it too, but never gets a good run of games and isn't fast enough to be a winger anyway.

I'm not saying Pereria should be starting every week, but it wouldn't take a lot to stand out as being at least one of our best crossers when we have so few capable. Why do you think we wanted Perisic?
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
Ashley Young has to be the best crosser of a ball at the club.
Click to expand...

He’d get my vote. Mind you, that’s from watching him play dozens and dozens of games and hundreds and hundreds of crosses.

If you’re gonna work off the same tiny number of really good crosses that has people putting down Pereira as “our best crosser” then you might as well throw Hererra in the mix for that peach onto Ibra’s head in the League Cup last season or the one to Pogba against Madrid.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’ve watched him develop. Calling him “our best crosser” is a huge call, based on very little evidence. And that’s without even getting into the madness of picking someone based on crossing ability alone or the fact that, by all accounts, Mourinho wanted him to stay!

Shit like this really undermines whatever valid criticisms people have of the manager (and they’re not hard to find) as it makes them come across as so ludicrously biased against him you can’t take anything else they say seriously.
Click to expand...

It's not a huge call. It's actually a very straightforward one given the lack of crossing ability we see each week. He without a doubt has the best delivery at the club. He's right footed. We don't have a right hand side at all. He'd be useful right now.


Please don't give me the bias stuff. Load of nonsense.
 
Lentwood said:
Just playing Devil's Advocate though, if you were the manager and you KNEW that our attacking players weren't elite standard, would you;

A) Give them even more freedom to do whatever they liked in the hope that we would score more goals?
B) Give them strict instructions to follow in the hope that we are more solid and harder to beat?

That might account for reasons why Jose doesn't pick Martial and Rashford together and may account for why Jose picks players he knows he can count on defensively.

If and when we go out and spend £300m on Griezmann + 2 and we are still playing this way, I will be the first to say it's not good enough but for now and I'm in the 'play to our strengths in order to grind out results' camp because I don't think Man Utd can keep finishing 6th!
Click to expand...

Yeah agree that could be the managers way of thinking. I'd find that to be a very unnecessary negative stance to take though. Having the players we do but purposely grinding out results? Nah that can't be the best way.

Hopefully the last month or so has just been a blip. After the internationals we might return with a bit more urgency, a bit more fun in our game.
 
Lentwood said:
We've had one "bad" result all season for Christ sake! No shame in losing 1-0 to Chelsea at the Bridge, no shame in drawing at Anfield.

Some of you need to give your heads a wobble and reassess your expectations. I would have taken a comfortable 3rd at the start of the season if offered because it represents progress.

The base of the team is there now - we haven't really been able to say that for 5/6yrs. Now all we need to do is add the flair and the creativity in the AM positions. Jose wisely chose to address these last because if you don't, well look at Klopp!
Click to expand...
No one is moaning about results. People are moaning about the quality of our play.
 
Why would there be bias and an agenda against our manager? Maybe just maybe people aren't happy with his performance here so far.
 
Lentwood said:
Yes, but IF we had won those games, nobody would be moaning! Therefore....comes down to results!
Click to expand...
Absolutely. At a club like United it's wins and trophies that are demanded; if we can do that whilst being great to watch, all the better. The problem comes if a tighter style doesn't win trophies.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Why would there be bias and an agenda against our manager? Maybe just maybe people aren't happy with his performance here so far.
Click to expand...
The club isn't democracy. They wanted Mourinho (Including Ed) and some were and are against it - nothing unusual to be honest.

Agenda against policy of winning trophies however is probably what's perplexing a logic the most.
 
DoubleRevv said:
Away results have been poor and style of play is reminiscent of van Gaal. Mourinho is not going to work long term if he insists on playing this boring way. Ideally for me, Pochettino if we can get him otherwise Mancini. Reaching the end of my patience with Mourinho's lack of fight.
Click to expand...
Away results this season have been poor but we had a decent away record last season. Personally, I find the criticism of our style of play overstated and we actually play good football, albeit not with the requisite consistency over 90 minutes. However, it is far far better than the football under LVG, which was genuinely the only period in the last 20 years when I got bored watching united play.
 
Lentwood said:
Just playing Devil's Advocate though, if you were the manager and you KNEW that our attacking players weren't elite standard, would you;

A) Give them even more freedom to do whatever they liked in the hope that we would score more goals?
B) Give them strict instructions to follow in the hope that we are more solid and harder to beat?

That might account for reasons why Jose doesn't pick Martial and Rashford together and may account for why Jose picks players he knows he can count on defensively.

If and when we go out and spend £300m on Griezmann + 2 and we are still playing this way, I will be the first to say it's not good enough but for now and I'm in the 'play to our strengths in order to grind out results' camp because I don't think Man Utd can keep finishing 6th!
Click to expand...
I think the difference is some and myself included don’t think the players are as bad as they are looking right now and a lot of it is down to how they are played. One problem is how deep we sit and that we don’t commit players that’s down to management. Push the defence further up, allow the fullbacks to join in and this also moves the midfield closer to the attackers so they have support and you have that wide option of the fullbacks who will now hopefully commit to going to the line instead of stopping at the 18yrd box.

All these things are simple adjustments that I think would improve performances mightily. Yes some players aren’t currently at their best but some of it is because there aren’t any passing options due to the shape and what I mentioned earlier.
 
Lentwood said:
Just playing Devil's Advocate though, if you were the manager and you KNEW that our attacking players weren't elite standard, would you;

A) Give them even more freedom to do whatever they liked in the hope that we would score more goals?
B) Give them strict instructions to follow in the hope that we are more solid and harder to beat?

That might account for reasons why Jose doesn't pick Martial and Rashford together and may account for why Jose picks players he knows he can count on defensively.

If and when we go out and spend £300m on Griezmann + 2 and we are still playing this way, I will be the first to say it's not good enough but for now and I'm in the 'play to our strengths in order to grind out results' camp because I don't think Man Utd can keep finishing 6th!
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying (as Jose's reasons for team selection/tactics) but that's Jose and if you asked that question to a thousand United fans, I think most would say "A".

I know what Jose is trying to do (Option B) but think that's wrong option as he's not getting the most from the players he has/using them to their best abilities and he's trying to fit the players we have into a formation/tactic he wants. Whether that was United/Jose or any other club, I'd say that "square peg/round hole" tactic rarely (if ever) works - try and find a formation/tactic for the players we have?

Jose basically has a glass half-empty view of not conceding then trying to score - if we had the players to make that work effectively, fine... but we don't. It means Lukaku is asked to be a hold-up player which he isn't (not got a great first touch), it makes it easy for opposing defence, it drags Rashford/Martial deeper which I think is a waste, he's playing a back 5 even though the 3 CHs aren't comfortable with the ball at their feet (Bailly is ok) so can't bring the ball out and wing-backs who don't push up/take the man on (Valencia ALWAYS turns back and Young cuts back to use his right foot.... the epitome of the square peg/round hole comment).

Personally, I'd change selection and formation but if want to play 5 at the back, why not Blind as one of the 3 CHs? (he can at least pass a ball, though personally I still think he's a MFer), why not play Young on the right so he can attack and get a quick cross in on his natural crossing foot without slowing down/cutting inside?

Why not play Martial or Rashford with Lukaku as a front two - means someone closer to Lukaku (so he's not isolated) and makes it much harder for opposing defence (two to mark, different abilities, scared of Martial/Rashfords pace)? Also tell them not to come back - stay up front/occupy opposing CHs.

(PS - so much talk about who should play 10? We haven't got one so don't play a 10! simple)

basically, try and use players in areas they're better at and be a bit more glass half-full..... and drop Mkhi!
 
Scoring goals wins games, Leaking goals loses games. You have got to get both right, and most managers build from the back first.

Pep,and Conte, took over winning sides, but we have only been in the top 4 once in the last 4 years. It takes time to build a team and some more time to make them into champions.
 
Abhinav said:
Away results this season have been poor but we had a decent away record last season. Personally, I find the criticism of our style of play overstated and we actually play good football, albeit not with the requisite consistency over 90 minutes. However, it is far far better than the football under LVG, which was genuinely the only period in the last 20 years when I got bored watching united play.
Click to expand...
The football really isn't good mate. It's just more exciting than Lvg's football as we actually try to attack now and again.
 
Bestietom said:
Scoring goals wins games, Leaking goals loses games. You have got to get both right, and most managers build from the back first.

Pep,and Conte, took over winning sides, but we have only been in the top 4 once in the last 4 years. It takes time to build a team and some more time to make them into champions.
Click to expand...
Yeah agree with this. If we finish in the top three and get to the qf of the champions league it's a good season.

I'd still look at other options at the end of the season if the football doesn't improve though.
 
Bestietom said:
Scoring goals wins games, Leaking goals loses games. You have got to get both right, and most managers build from the back first.

Pep,and Conte, took over winning sides, but we have only been in the top 4 once in the last 4 years. It takes time to build a team and some more time to make them into champions.
Click to expand...

We will never be champions under Mourinho.

In terms of the title of this thread. There is literally every justification for wanting Mourinho sacked. He's already becoming a liability and he's only been at the club some 15 months. His transfer dealings have been atrocious, the football we play is prehistoric, and he is already flirting with his next club like the managerial slag that he is. We deserve much better and all the teenage Mourinho fangirls who populate this place hopefully will disappear to his next club along with him.

Change is in the air, i can smell it. I've got little or nor faith in Woodward to get things right by design. But maybe if they are looking for someone who isn't just a chequebook tactician they'll be forced to think a little more progressively and who knows, maybe through sheer good luck we'll end up with a manager we actually deserve and someone who finally will be fit to follow Sir Alex.

In the meantime I'd be getting ready for a very bumpy final three or four months of this season.
 
"football Einsteins" why not put your hat in the ring for the job...you are all so clever?

Next Utd manage "if you lose 2 out of 4" the fans will want you sacked....hellooooo...hello.... you still want the job?
 
Unless Rashford, Martial, Lukaku or Ibra suddenly turn into world class strikers we've got no hope of winning the league.

Top three would be a great result.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Really flawed argument. And untrue for what its worth.
Click to expand...

If we were on the same number of points as City having played exactly the same way, very few people would be complaining. And we did start the season banging the goals in. It's only since Lukaku has hit a bit of a drought and Pogba got injured that the goals have dropped away.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
If we were on the same number of points as City having played exactly the same way, very few people would be complaining. And we did start the season banging the goals in. It's only since Lukaku has hit a bit of a drought and Pogba got injured that the goals have dropped away.
Click to expand...
Very few people complaining doesnt mean that complaining wouldnt be deserved. I ''complained'' or had my worries even when we were trashing teams, surely others as well.
 
Markmark99 said:
"football Einsteins" why not put your hat in the ring for the job...you are all so clever?

Next Utd manage "if you lose 2 out of 4" the fans will want you sacked....hellooooo...hello.... you still want the job?
Click to expand...

That's so cringeworthy.:lol:
 
The truth is that there is no reason to sack Mourinho right now. He did nothing to be sacked right now. Things are not bad as his haters portray. There is no any disaster or smth like that. We have plenty of games to perform our best and to get points in the league. We also gonna play in the knockout stage of the CL. It's just ridiculous to want his sacking.
 
Hambley said:
The truth is that there is no reason to sack Mourinho right now. He did nothing to be sacked right now. Things are not bad as his haters portray. There is no any disaster or smth like that. We have plenty of games to perform our best and to get points in the league. We also gonna play in the knockout stage of the CL. It's just ridiculous to want his sacking.
Click to expand...

Which is why no one want him sacked.
 
getupkid said:
We will never be champions under Mourinho.

In terms of the title of this thread. There is literally every justification for wanting Mourinho sacked. He's already becoming a liability and he's only been at the club some 15 months. His transfer dealings have been atrocious, the football we play is prehistoric, and he is already flirting with his next club like the managerial slag that he is. We deserve much better and all the teenage Mourinho fangirls who populate this place hopefully will disappear to his next club along with him.

Change is in the air, i can smell it. I've got little or nor faith in Woodward to get things right by design. But maybe if they are looking for someone who isn't just a chequebook tactician they'll be forced to think a little more progressively and who knows, maybe through sheer good luck we'll end up with a manager we actually deserve and someone who finally will be fit to follow Sir Alex.

In the meantime I'd be getting ready for a very bumpy final three or four months of this season.
Click to expand...

I can't believe what I'm reading. How about supporting a manager that won two trophies in his first year and currently has us second in the league and in the Champions League knockout stages? You're getting totally carried with this stuff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.