The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[Balljy]

If we were talking about a situation where we faced a deadly disease, one that is lethal to anyone and everyone. Get it and you are dead type of virus. Then I would understand and agree that everyone should be vaccinated. We are not faced with that situation though. You believe the vaccines are safe, but what if they aren't? What if there are unforeseen side effects months or years down the road that people didn't anticipate? That would be a big problem if you have vaccinated every single person in the world, right? If you are not at risk from Covid and so don't get a Covid vaccine you are guaranteed to be not at risk from any of those unforeseen side effects from taking the Covid vaccine.

To reverse that, if you aren't at risk and don't get the vaccine you may get it and get no side effects to the virus like you say. That doesn't stop you walking into a supermarket and unknowingly infecting someone who is at risk who gets serious issues.

As people before have said that's not getting to the fact that there is a risk to every adult age group overall. The effects of long covid is unknown at the moment and as someone who has suffered from long covid in a "not at risk" group I can say that it's not worth going through even if just due to the amount of scans / hospital check-ups I've been through for the last 8 or so months, never mind the worrying symptoms.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm ripping up the entire back garden to put in proper drains. We moved into a new build and the builders put in really compacted soil with shitty drainage and no natural run off. Found the manhole down the side, and found a pipe that "looked" like it came from the grass, so dug up an experiment hole at the path and found the end of the pipe. Going to put a few french-like drains to connect up to it I think.

Holy shit. That’s a proper project. Enjoy!

 

[Penna]

Thanks, mate. I wish you all the best as well. Still got a few days to decide. So who knows, maybe I will just white knuckle it. Anyway, take care.

I absolutely understand your misgivings. If you have health anxiety, it's very difficult and people don't understand the extent to which it affects a person. If it helps, I'm 62, I have anxiety, auto-immune disorders and a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. I've been to see a neurologist in Italy and he said the risk to me of Covid is in all likelihood greater than the risk of me having another serious reaction. My older sister who has a similar medical history, has been to see an endocrinologist in the UK (she also has many allergies), and he's given a similar assessment.

I'm planning to have the jab (we've had a slow start to the roll-out in Italy), my sis in the UK has been called already but she's waiting for a couple of months. Neither of us are anti-vaccination (just the opposite), but this has given us both a lot of worry and we've discussed it at great length.

If I were you, I'd go for it when you feel comfortable to do so.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

I absolutely understand your misgivings. If you have health anxiety, it's very difficult and people don't understand the extent to which it affects a person. If it helps, I'm 62, I have anxiety, auto-immune disorders and a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. I've been to see a neurologist in Italy and he said the risk to me of Covid is in all likelihood greater than the risk of me having another serious reaction. My older sister who has a similar medical history, has been to see an endocrinologist in the UK (she also has many allergies), and he's given a similar assessment.

I'm planning to have the jab (we've had a slow start to the roll-out in Italy), my sis in the UK has been called already but she's waiting for a couple of months. Neither of us are anti-vaccination (just the opposite), but this has given us both a lot of worry and we've discussed it at great length.

If I were you, I'd go for it when you feel comfortable to do so.

Thank you for the kind words, its very much appreciated. Ill keep my fingers crossed for you and your sister that it all goes smoothly when the time comes.

 

[Wibble]

I was already having grave misgivings. The other posts seemingly confirming my fears, and your post was just "the one" that did it. To be clear though, I already have severe anxiety issues, so taking any new drugs is something I avoid already. I even avoid taking pain killers, opting to just put up with the headache. I never went out before, so life hasnt changed much for me during lock down anyway if Im honest.

I have a deep fear of being ill. Its not lost on me that Im risking that anyway, but its also painful to think of forcing myself out the door, down to the vaccination centre and holding still while something injects "liquid death"(Yes, Im that bad) into me. Im not saying Im right, Im not saying anyone should follow me down this rabbit hole. Im just saying that for me and my mental bullshit that gets in the way of living anyway, my instincts are telling me not to. And those instincts have kept me alive so far, I guess.

First thing that might help how you think about this is that it is not a drug and vaccines are not actual live viruses. Some use parts of deactivated viruses but many like Pfizer don't even do that. They can't give you the disease. So the short lived side effects aren't disease or illness (or liquid death) but just the body reacting naturally really really well.

Think of it another way. If you don't get this non-drug you may get covid and be forced to take a large number of actual drugs. So maybe you can persuade your mind of this for just long enough to get the jab and save yourself from potentially an even less palatable alternative. Would it help if you could get someone to come to your home to vaccinate you? I'm not sure if that is possible but it may make it less stressful if it is.

Obviously you have anxiety issues already and I have no idea if you have had or are having any help mitigating them but I'd really urge you to do so if you aren't or if the last attempt didn't work, as it sounds like you perhaps aren't living the life you could be doing and deserve to be. A friend of mine, now much improved, told me something his GP said to him that helped after a few therapy and drug options didn't work out well and he wanted to quit. The GP said "If you broke your leg and the compound fracture didn't set the first time you wouldn't quit trying to set the leg would you?" This idea that mental health issues were just another health issue, just as breaks and cancer and heart disease are, was quite powerful for him and helped him carry on trying for a solution.

There are quite a few people who are medicos of various sorts and or really well informed on this stuff in this thread so maybe asking them questions if there are specifics bothering you and they may be able to help.

@Pogue Mahone @Volumiza @Tony Babangida @jojojo @africanspur and there are a few others that I've forgotten

 

[Wibble]

They would be spreading the virus to people who are either vaccinated or naturally immune.
If the plan is to blanket vaccinate everyone to protect those at risk, then why are no children being vaccinated?

Because the data isn't there yet. But it will be this year and kids will then likely be immunised in most countries.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-56090539

 

[Adisa]

 

[africanspur]

Its a genuine travesty and the Western countries look absolutely disgusting. Canada (and I think NZ) drawing doses from the Covax pool is a particular low.

What's worse is that they're finally waking up to it I think but not from a moralistic or even practical point of view (no point vaccinating swathes of the world while others continue to have Covid raging) but from a fear of losing influence. Even the Guardian had an article couched in those terms.

I'm also incredibly disappointed in the sums donated to Covax by some countries. How is it that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation have contributed more than France, Italy and Spain and only marginally less than Canada and Japan? How is it that Kuwait, NZ and South Korea have donated the same (miniscule) amount as Tiktok?

I hope there are other schemes that I'm missing and eventually these countries will give doses unilaterally I'm sure but its pretty shite.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Its a genuine travesty and the Western countries look absolutely disgusting. Canada (and I think NZ) drawing doses from the Covax pool is a particular low.

What's worse is that they're finally waking up to it I think but not from a moralistic or even practical point of view (no point vaccinating swathes of the world while others continue to have Covid raging) but from a fear of losing influence. Even the Guardian had an article couched in those terms.

I'm also incredibly disappointed in the sums donated to Covax by some countries. How is it that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation have contributed more than France, Italy and Spain and only marginally less than Canada and Japan? How is it that Kuwait, NZ and South Korea have donated the same (miniscule) amount as Tiktok?

I hope there are other schemes that I'm missing and eventually these countries will give doses unilaterally I'm sure but its pretty shite.

Even at a purely self-interested level it’s absurd to stockpile vaccines. We can vaccinate 100% of our citizens and still end up in lockdown again, this time next year, if a vaccine resistant “Balkan strain” hits our shores in December.

 

[Adisa]

A 20 year old in the US will be vaccinated before a front line nurse in South Africa.
I hope these countries never forget.

 

[africanspur]

Even at a purely self-interested level it’s absurd to stockpile vaccines. We can vaccinate 100% of our citizens and still end up in lockdown again, this time next year, if a vaccine resistant “Balkan strain” hits our shores in December.

Exactly. We're already seeing this to some extent with the South African variant and seemingly reduced efficacy of all? the major vaccine candidates against it.

fecking classic short term thinking from humans as usual.

 

[dumbo]

That vaccine hoarding is Aesop's dog and his shadow.

 

[golden_blunder]

I'm ripping up the entire back garden to put in proper drains. We moved into a new build and the builders put in really compacted soil with shitty drainage and no natural run off. Found the manhole down the side, and found a pipe that "looked" like it came from the grass, so dug up an experiment hole at the path and found the end of the pipe. Going to put a few french-like drains to connect up to it I think.

Sounds good. A race horse would struggle in my current “grass”

 

[Carl]

Just got the Pfizer jab. Sat waiting for the allotted time. You get a card with the info on it if your jab and date. When you get the second the rest gets filled out and it becomes your vaccine passport.

That little crappy piece of paper is surely not going to act as the vaccine passport.

 

[Carl]

Youve just convinced me to opt out.

I've had the Pfizer one, as has my wife and one of my mates. My 2 elderly next door neighbours too. Only side effect the 5 of us experienced is a bit of a tender arm for about 24hrs.

 

[Gambit]

That little crappy piece of paper is surely not going to act as the vaccine passport.

Apparently so.

 

[Gambit]

I've had the Pfizer one, as has my wife and one of my mates. My 2 elderly next door neighbours too. Only side effect the 5 of us experienced is a bit of a tender arm for about 24hrs.

yup day 2 after the same jab here, tenderness has pretty much gone.

 

[Carl]

You mean the guy with sever anxiety issues and various other mental health problems? Yeah, Im that guy. Why dont you pick on me some more so you can feel good about yourself.

100% agree it absolutely should be personal choice, and noone should be made to feel a dick for opting out. I've had it, my wife has had it. I'm not sure how I'd feel about my 5yr old having it.

 

[Carl]

Interesting. I work with a few people in Belarus and they haven't had it yet. Said they're waiting for some Russian trials, or something.

 

[massi83]

Even at a purely self-interested level it’s absurd to stockpile vaccines. We can vaccinate 100% of our citizens and still end up in lockdown again, this time next year, if a vaccine resistant “Balkan strain” hits our shores in December.

Unless you are saying that old people develop new mutations more easily (I don’t know), then it shouldn't really matter for the likelihood of new variants.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Unless you are saying that old people develop new mutations more easily (I don’t know), then it shouldn't really matter for the likelihood of new variants.

I wasn’t even thinking about ages tbh. Just the risk of allowing the virus to bounce around between millions of unvaccinated people in other countries. Especially if those countries do have a very small % of vaccinated people.

 

[2mufc0]

My mum had the vaccine and had terrible side effects, she blacked out twice, the first time she came around quickly so we called the doctor and he said if she's feeling OK it's normally nothing to worry about. Later in the evening she had another this time my sister called the ambulance, she seemed to come around but they took her to hospital for checks. She had blood tests, brain scan etc and they found nothing. They said it's most likely a side effect of the vaccine as everything else with her is fine.

 

[Traub]

You'd think even the money men would want the emerging markets to be vaccinated - the lack of vaccination may lead to economic collapse and default in these countries, driving down returns.

 

[Cloud7]

India has been helping out the Caribbean as well. The vaccine I had this week was from India. We can truly see how much the “leaders of the free world” care about anyone besides themselves, as if we didn’t already know.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

India has been helping out the Caribbean as well. The vaccine I had this week was from India. We can truly see how much the “leaders of the free world” care about anyone besides themselves, as if we didn’t already know.

You really think those countries are helping you out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

[massi83]

I wasn’t even thinking about ages tbh. Just the risk of allowing the virus to bounce around between millions of unvaccinated people in other countries. Especially if those countries do have a very small % of vaccinated people.

I don’t think there is much, if any difference whether 70% of western people are vaccinated and 5% elsewhere. Or 15% everywhere. This just from a mutation point of view.

 

[Cloud7]

You really think those countries are helping you out of the goodness of their hearts?

Theyre not, but some help is better than the no help that we’ve been getting from other countries.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Theyre not, but some help is better than the no help that we’ve been getting from other countries.

Western nations have been very badly hit because of their old populations and global interconnectivity. Their governments are also democratically accountable so need to serve their own populations first.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Capitalism at its best.

 

[Cloud7]

Western nations have been very badly hit because of their old populations and global interconnectivity. Their governments are also democratically accountable so need to serve their own populations first.

Covid isn’t a problem isolated to any one single country. This same global inter connectivity will still cripple them if every one of their people are vaccinated, but all the other countries they do business with are still suffering from Covid. Lest we forget these western nations are as rich as they are off the back of exploitation of poorer nations, which aren’t as important as their own populations, as you say.

 

[acnumber9]

Nice of China to think of other countries now it’s no longer their problem.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don’t think there is much, if any difference whether 70% of western people are vaccinated and 5% elsewhere. Or 15% everywhere. This just from a mutation point of view.

Every time it replicates there’s a chance of mutation. The more viral transmission the higher the chance of a new variant emerging which has some sort of evolutionary benefit (e.g. vaccine resistance). Surely it’s just a number game? The lower the % vaccinated, the more viral transmission = more mutations.

 

[massi83]

Every time it replicates there’s a chance of mutation. The more viral transmission the higher the chance of a new variant emerging which has some sort of evolutionary benefit (e.g. vaccine resistance). Surely it’s just a number game? The lower the % vaccinated, the more viral transmission = more mutations.

We don't have enough vaccines to really have an effect world-wide. Doesn't really matter which way you cut the cake if it is too small. But we are nearing semantics territory.

The production should have been increased by a lot a long time ago.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Covid isn’t a problem isolated to any one single country. This same global inter connectivity will still cripple them if every one of their people are vaccinated, but all the other countries they do business with are still suffering from Covid. Lest we forget these western nations are as rich as they are off the back of exploitation of poorer nations, which aren’t as important as their own populations, as you say.

I don’t disagree with anything you say. From a cynical and pragmatic viewpoint I do think Western nations are right to vaccinate their population first though. Once the numbers are down track and trace can be more effective and they can close the borders to foreign nations with dangerous variants etc.

I do think the UK should prioritise the Commonwealth nations over others (except Ireland) at the first opportunity.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We don't have enough vaccines to really have an effect world-wide. Doesn't really matter which way you cut the cake if it is too small. But we are nearing semantics territory.

The production should have been increased by a lot a long time ago.

Ok, fair enough. I do see your point about 5% vs 15% being kind of meaningless.

 

[lsd]

Just had my first dose Oxford next one 24th April. So far so good no effects.

Don't see why anyone would not want the vaccine

 

[jojojo]

I doubt Russia and China have shipped anywhere close to 800m doses. They may well have promised 800m doses though and they may well be doing better than the US/UK/EU at shipping even the few million doses that have been requested by Covax/GAVI and WHO for urgent use (for health care workers and the like). The doubts around AZ have left a big hole in what's available through those organisations as well.

There are lots of other "coming soon" vaccines, that have early doses committed to supply high risk countries like SA and Brazil, but haven't done so far. In particular J&J/Janssen may be ready to ship millions of doses soon but won't reach high volume until later in Q2. Novavax have a GAVI order for 1.1B doses, but realistically won't have many doses available until Q3.

It's also worth looking at the deaths/cases stats. It's still the case that Europe and the US have the worst numbers - a situation that's partly but not solely down to testing/reporting rates. In this context it's very questionable that (for example) Australia and New Zealand "need" more than a few thousand vaccines at this stage (to cover quarantine hotel/airport staff etc)

India has been helping out the Caribbean as well. The vaccine I had this week was from India. We can truly see how much the “leaders of the free world” care about anyone besides themselves, as if we didn’t already know.

India has some of the biggest vaccine manufacturers in the world, and own plant in Europe as well. They're currently producing far more Oxford/AZ than AZ themselves can produce. They'll also produce the majority of Novavax doses and some other vaccines.

The vaccine business has been mostly either low volume or low profit for many years. There was more or less no bulk manufacturing capacity in the UK prior to covid, and a large proportion of Europe's plant had been mothballed or repurposed. The effective removal of the US plants from the global supply chain has left the UK and Europe scrambling for capacity. It's fair to say that this will have come as quite a culture shock for governments who've happily seen manufacturing industry decline because the "world market" could supply it cheaper.

 

[Grinner]

Just had my first dose Oxford next one 24th April. So far so good no effects.

Don't see why anyone would not want the vaccine

Well if you read the last few pages you might have an idea.

 

[hmchan]

Efficacy of CoronaVac in elderly has a 95% confidence interval of -166% to 91%. This report is worse than those submitted by bachelor students.

https://bit.ly/3uhLQxG

 

[NYAS]

I need some help guys. My mum got the first dose of Pfizer the Wednesday before last (11 days ago). Since the next day until this current moment, she’s been feeling like complete shit with a high fever, extreme fatigue, occasional chills, and now a cough. She has no underlying health conditions and is in her early 60’s. We got her tested for Covid just in case a couple of days ago and it came back negative. Why is this going on for 11 days now? What could it be? If it isn’t Covid and I haven’t heard of anyone having a reaction for this long after the jab. We’ve been to the doc twice, they did some checks on her (oxygen, etc) and said everything was fine, and that she should wait a bit and come back if it persists. She’s going into her 2nd week of this now and I’m worried that it might not be the type of thing where you should just tough it out, and I don’t want things to deteriorate. Any ideas would be much appreciated.