The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
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Seen a bunch of anti-vaxxers at the vaccination centre today! Don't look very menacing when there's only about 5 of them and in snow-appropriate knitwear and mittens.
Annoyingly I've just realised how extremely online I am seeing as I was the only one who understood most the references and everybody's in awe of my explanation of "the great reset"
Annoyingly I've just realised how extremely online I am seeing as I was the only one who understood most the references and everybody's in awe of my explanation of "the great reset"
Doing an arm workout before you get your jab can make it more effective apparently.
Sounds like bollocks to me but any excuse for a superwank....
Sounds like bollocks to me but any excuse for a superwank....
Anti vax outside a centre in the UK? Ffs.
I think the other change that's expected as more AstraZeneca vaccine becomes available is that local pharmacies will do it. I suspect GPs or pharmacists will also start doing day sessions in venues like church halls etc in smaller places.
So far a lot of the rollout has been Pfizer vaccines. Where I live it's meant that they have been able to vaccinate a big proportion of mobile over 70s, but they haven't been able to do their housebound over 80s or the smaller carehomes. They're waiting for their next delivery of AZ to do those.
I'm getting the Pfizer one on Tuesday at the local hospital. Can get the Oxford one if I want but have to travel about 10 miles for it. Wanted the Pfizer one anyway.
That has been the case for quite a few people actually, a lot of the kids and grandkids on behalf of our elderly patients seen today rearranged appts today as adamant that want to get the Pfizer. Last week a few delays as adamant about wanting the AZ.
Currently being allocated at random from what I can tell, we just get shipments of one or the other and book patients in. It is a pretty complex issue I feel with numerous factors to consider - scientific, logistically, supply, efficacy. I got the pfizer but for me getting one as soon as possible was always the main thing, and would have got AZ if I could have earlier.
And news that Johnson and Johnson are about to drop their ENSEMBLE 1 and/or 2 trial data for the Janssen vaccine in a few weeks (multinational, high number of participants in covid-hit countries) for consideration of FDA approval I think it'll be an interesting dynamic to observe in the future about perception and preference with regards to the approved vaccines once we have infrastructure in place to give them out in the community en-masse.
Results from the CureVac mRNA vaccine Phase 2B/3 study expected beginning of March too. HERALD trial.
I want the most effective but I'll take whatever comes first, assuming the US or EU approve the AZ vaccine.
I wonder if come the summer-ish when there are hundreds of millions of doses from Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and whoever else, we will see the AZ vaccine being quietly dropped and sent to developing countries instead. Other than the UK of course, where the Great British Vaccine will be injected from a union jack coloured needle to the sound of God Save the Queen.
I think it's the perception that the Oxford one isn't as good. There was the whole "Oh, we only gave one dose to some of the people by accident and it was still pretty effective but two doses is 95% effective". Whereas Pfizer has just been 95% and no ambiguity. Plus, it's held at - 70 degrees, so it feels like it's more 'premium' or something. I don't know. Obviously, I'd be happy with either and I don't think I'd have travelled to get the Pfizer one if it was further away, but it's just how I feel about them.
Thanks. Both my parents are on anticoagulants. I guess I need to consult with their doctors..
Good news
So, this is not correct
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford–AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine
The half dose-full dose regimen was an accident or "serendipity" using their CEOs words, but doesn't seem to have formed the basis of getting it authorised (not enough evidence). If you are given astrazeneca, you'll be getting two full doses
I hope this explains why plenty feel Oxford/astra isnt as good.
You should. The risk with anticoagulants is the possibility of a haematoma in their arm from the injection. Probably a risk worth taking considering the upside but their doctors will be able to advise. Will depend on what type/dose anticoagulants they’ll on and what they’ve been prescribed for.
Thank you.
There's no reason why they can't get the vaccine unless their recent INR is severely deranged (if on warfarin), the new anti-coagulants are fine too.
They get asked the question about anti-coagulants or blood thinners during consenting part pre-vaccination. Haematoma or bruising is an increased risk.
In practice it'll mean after vaccination firm pressure applied to the injection site in shoulder (with cotton gauze) without rubbing for at least two minutes.
Definitely have a discussion with primary care doctor if concerned but I've followed up a lot of the patients I gave the vaccination to on anti-coagulants in a subsequent flu vaccine clinic and there wasn't much of a issue by way of bruising etc thankfully.
My other half's Mother had her vaccine yesterday & she's on Warfarin.
It's not only perception.
The US won't approve it until AZ have completed a new trial, with one of the FDA vaccine advisory panel members saying their data was odd and contained a serious error. The US trial for some reason is doing two full doses so likely won't be as effective even if it is approved.
Europe hasn't approved it either because 'the company first needs to demonstrate that all vaccines will be of high quality', and they haven't yet done that, according to the Deputy Head of the EMA.
Now you have the whole dose extension debacle and it's not hard to understand why some would prefer a different vaccine.
I get the sense you really enjoy posting bad news re the EU! Wouldn’t be too worried about this tbh. I remain to be convinced it’s a good vaccine. At the very least we need a better idea how it should be dosed. Hopefully have more data by the time we start injecting.
Its worst effectiveness data would have been good enough though. Obviously, we would all like to get a vaccine that is 95% effective but I'd take the Oxford one in a flash if it were the one on offer.
It might be the only one we have in AU. It looks like we were so late to the party ordering others that need importing that the Oxford one, which will be made here, may be the first cab off the rank and the only one for some time. We are only now thinking about ordering the Johnson and Johnson one - which could be good new if it is as effective as the rumors say - 100% and sterilising.
I’m sure it works. I just wouldn’t be keen on taking a vaccine that we don’t yet know what dose and what duration between doses works best. Not when there are other vaccines available where this is crystal clear.
Given a choice of course I'd go for the more effective one but I'd havexthe Oxford vaccine yesterday given the option.
Took my 2nd jab yesterday, the exact 21 days it was supposed to be.
Aching a bit all over the body, unlike the first shot. Glad I'm not working today, it would have been a tremendous sacrifice.
Aching a bit all over the body, unlike the first shot. Glad I'm not working today, it would have been a tremendous sacrifice.
Australia has given full approval to the Pfizer vaccine.
Shame we don't have any.
Shame we don't have any.
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If the AZ vaccine arrives in Ireland soon/few weeks (albeit in a shorter supply), how will it distributed throughout Ireland? More generally have they got a priority list of what vaccine goes where?
Moderna requires less intensive infrastructure than Pfizer, right? Basically how will AZ's vaccine play into our current distribution plans?
This sounds like a potential game changer.
My girlfriend's dad is a Doctor and has told her similar things. People claiming to be allergic or intolerant to certain ingredients in the Oxford vaccine, despite no recorded history. He even had a couple who said they couldn't take a vaccine with ethanol in it as their religious beliefs meant they weren't allowed to consume alcohol...even though they go to the same (Christian) church as he does, and have interacted there many times.
My parents got vaccinated the other day. Very relieving.
I think they’re hoping the AZ vaccine will be the mainstay of the really big vaccine ramp-up. When we use community vaccination centres to reach most of the population.
Either AZ or the J&J one, which only needs one shot and doesn’t need the same very cold storage as mRNA vaccines. We’re still waiting for results though.
Although I’m sure the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines will be ramped up regardless. Basically every licensed, effective vaccine will be used as much as possible. Choice will be dictated primarily by supply.
What 'ingredients' were they on about.
Thanks for the info!
Ok, so haven't been following much of the thread and can't really catch up now. A very good friend of mine is talking about 10 people in Germany having died, and some in Norway, specifically related to them taking the vaccine. So much fake news being spread around these days and i am sure i'd have heard about vaccine deaths all over the news. Any truth to this or is it fake news?
Yes and no. There have been a small number of deaths in the extremely old and frail due to the side effects of the vaccines. There are known side effects like mild allergic reactions, nausea and fever that cause no problems for most people, but in that cohort those things can be enough to finish them off. They could have just as easily eaten a dodgy prawn and died but in this case it was the vaccine that triggered it, and some countries are now advising caution when vaccinating the very old and frail.
Not strictly fake news but very heavily misrepresented.
It will be interesting to see how the study translates to mass vaccinations, in respect to success rates across different groups.
I've read up on the Norwegian deaths. They're talking about deaths amongst the "frail elderly" - 23 deaths following the vaccination campaign in elderly residential care homes. To put that into context:
More than 20 000 doses of the vaccine have been administered over the past few weeks in Norway and around 400 deaths normally occur among care home residents every week.
Initial analysis by the experts suggests that in maybe 10 of the cases the known side-effects of the jabs (gastric upset, fever etc) could have been enough to be the "last straw" for people whose health was already fragile.
Unfortunately, we won't know which "frail elderly" people we shouldn't vaccinate until after incidents happen and the statistical analysis gets done. We do know that catching covid will kill a lot more as a percentage of the same group. In the UK (or anywhere with high case numbers) the odds as observed so far are definitely with the "vaccinate them all" philosophy.
I've not seen a breakdown of the German numbers yet.
A good explanation of the story so far on the German numbers.
https://www.business-standard.com/a...ccinated-against-covid-19-121011500088_1.html
The deaths they're studying were aged between 79 and 93 - all with multiple conditions and some of whom were receiving palliative care. Again the challenge will be to see if they can predict for whom it will be the "last straw."
From the first 840 thousand vaccine doses given out in Germany they also report:
The institute also reported six anaphylaxis cases. So far, there have been 325 cases of side-effects allegedly related to the vaccine, including 51 severe ones. Keller-Stanislawski stated that those results are within expectations and correspond to the US vaccination statistics.
To me, the fact that we know these things is actually reassuring. Horrible for the individual families, very frightening for those with reactions - but it's good to know that the right people are keeping a watch on what happens after vaccinations have been given.
https://www.business-standard.com/a...ccinated-against-covid-19-121011500088_1.html
The deaths they're studying were aged between 79 and 93 - all with multiple conditions and some of whom were receiving palliative care. Again the challenge will be to see if they can predict for whom it will be the "last straw."
From the first 840 thousand vaccine doses given out in Germany they also report:
The institute also reported six anaphylaxis cases. So far, there have been 325 cases of side-effects allegedly related to the vaccine, including 51 severe ones. Keller-Stanislawski stated that those results are within expectations and correspond to the US vaccination statistics.
To me, the fact that we know these things is actually reassuring. Horrible for the individual families, very frightening for those with reactions - but it's good to know that the right people are keeping a watch on what happens after vaccinations have been given.
My dad gets his vaccine tomorrow. Very relieving to hear!
Another vaccine development bites the dust. A reminder of just how fortunate we've been to get some vaccines this early, and why betting on multiple horses was a necessary buying strategy for countries as well as a good development approach.
Johnson & Johnson vaccine sounds really promising.
Would make sense for any manufacturer to concentrate on producing a one shot high efficacy vaccine rather than some of the 2 dose ones. Sub contract it out. Why have a manufacturer waste time and similar resources in a pandemic making the worst 2 dose vaccine later on? It's obviously also double the work administering the jabs and adds months extra in limbo for full protection, that's months more restrictions having a huge impact on economies and peoples patience around the world.
Not sure on the exact materials on the AZ compared to J&J etc. AZ is useful right now given UK's dire situation and has been touted as a good one for third world countries due to storage but the 2 dose Moderna one is there now. The time and work giving out 2 doses is tough for anywhere so might make sense to go all out on J&J and Moderna later? As awareness grows you could have more wanting the high efficacy vaccines so a lot of effort could go to waste later in the year unless they phase some out.
Would make sense for any manufacturer to concentrate on producing a one shot high efficacy vaccine rather than some of the 2 dose ones. Sub contract it out. Why have a manufacturer waste time and similar resources in a pandemic making the worst 2 dose vaccine later on? It's obviously also double the work administering the jabs and adds months extra in limbo for full protection, that's months more restrictions having a huge impact on economies and peoples patience around the world.
Not sure on the exact materials on the AZ compared to J&J etc. AZ is useful right now given UK's dire situation and has been touted as a good one for third world countries due to storage but the 2 dose Moderna one is there now. The time and work giving out 2 doses is tough for anywhere so might make sense to go all out on J&J and Moderna later? As awareness grows you could have more wanting the high efficacy vaccines so a lot of effort could go to waste later in the year unless they phase some out.
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