The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[WI_Red]

FFS. It's going to decimate Haiti isn't it?

Haiti is quickly going through the 4 horseman, aren't they? Hope they can catch a break.

(Civil) War - Check
Pestilence - Check
Famine - Likely incoming due to earthquake and storms
Death - Check

It makes the anti-vaxxers here even that more despicable when people around the world would kill for the opportunity to be vaccinated.

 

[roseguy64]

 

[Swiss_Red89]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

 

[Zaphod2319]

I got my second vaccine 3 months ago, but I think I am going to lose my card on purpose and start over!!

 

[P-Ro]

I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.

I accept and understand everyone who decides not to get the vaccine. They are idiots.

 

[WI_Red]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

Based on your statement your understanding of the vaccine is lacking. Even ignoring the fact that there is billion person sample size that has demonstrated that there is an extremely rare incidence of side effects this is not an experimental technology. mRNA vaccines have been in development since the 90's and were only delayed in roll out due to work being done to determine the best carrier system for the mRNA. Since both systems use a lipid based nanoparticle you likely breathe in worse stuff every day. Also, this is not gene based. The genes of all living organisms is DNA, not RNA. Beyond that, the mRNA in the vaccine never enters the nucleus of a single cell in your body. mRNA vaccines are a light year jump in our ability to combat diseases and are almost certainly safer than the technologies hat preceded them.

How are unvaccinated people being punished? By not being allowed into public spaces? By being forced out of jobs where the employer requires vaccinations? These are not punishments, they are consequences for actions. As a society we count on each other in some situations to behave in ways that may infringe on personal rights but provide for the greater good. The data shows that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected, and if they do, are less likely to pass it on. Additionally, unvaccinated people are currently 90%+ of the COVID hospital cases here in the US. In some southern sates they have a negative number of ICU beds, leading to critical patients being forced to wait, or potentially die, for lack of beds. Are you willing to sign a waiver that states if you are infected and require hospitalization you give up your right to an ICU bed? It is not just about me, or you, or any of us, it is also about how the decisions we make have ripple effects that go far beyond us.

 

[mav_9me]

Based on your statement your understanding of the vaccine is lacking. Even ignoring the fact that there is billion person sample size that has demonstrated that there is an extremely rare incidence of side effects this is not an experimental technology. mRNA vaccines have been in development since the 90's and were only delayed in roll out due to work being done to determine the best carrier system for the mRNA. Since both systems use a lipid based nanoparticle you likely breathe in worse stuff every day. Also, this is not gene based. The genes of all living organisms is DNA, not RNA. Beyond that, the mRNA in the vaccine never enters the nucleus of a single cell in your body. mRNA vaccines are a light year jump in our ability to combat diseases and are almost certainly safer than the technologies hat preceded them.

How are unvaccinated people being punished? By not being allowed into public spaces? By being forced out of jobs where the employer requires vaccinations? These are not punishments, they are consequences for actions. As a society we count on each other in some situations to behave in ways that may infringe on personal rights but provide for the greater good. The data shows that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected, and if they do, are less likely to pass it on. Additionally, unvaccinated people are currently 90%+ of the COVID hospital cases here in the US. In some southern sates they have a negative number of ICU beds, leading to critical patients being forced to wait, or potentially die, for lack of beds. Are you willing to sign a waiver that states if you are infected and require hospitalization you give up your right to an ICU bed? It is not just about me, or you, or any of us, it is also about how the decisions we make have ripple effects that go far beyond us.

Good luck buddy. Carry on the good fight.
I dont have the energy to deal with these people.

 

[Sky1981]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

You're putting other's safety based on you believe on your immune system.

It maybe a slight inconvenience for you but you could potentially spreading deadly virus everywhere else.

Vaccinations only works if 80% or so is vacinnated. A 50% vaccinated rate is a recipe for disaster since they thought it's save while it's not.

This is not about you. This is about the greater good

 

[mav_9me]

You're putting other's safety based on you believe on your immune system.

It maybe a slight inconvenience for you but you could potentially spreading deadly virus everywhere else.

Vaccinations only works if 80% or so is vacinnated. A 50% vaccinated rate is a recipe for disaster since they thought it's save while it's not.

This is not about you. This is about the greater good

I dont think he cares. Its all about his immune system and how he is working on his health.

 

[zing]

Now 53.8. Only just realised there was a poll.

It’s probably a lot lower than that. People coming to this thread are way more likely to be vaccinated.

 

[Wibble]

It’s probably a lot lower than that. People coming to this thread are way more likely to be vaccinated.

And with us banning anyone who won't vaccinate for the safety of the Caf that will warp the numbers - yes this is a joke - probably.

 

[utdalltheway]

I got my second vaccine 3 months ago, but I think I am going to lose my card on purpose and start over!!

You have to remember; it’s just a little prick.
Until she shows up, then it’s gruesome.

 

[Wibble]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

You don't do science good do you? WTF do you mean by experimental gene-based vaccination? What anti-vax gibberish are you consuming?

You can get covid again and spread it to others who may well have severe or fatal outcomes even if you don't. Vaccination will almost certainly improve your individual immunity and on average does improve immunity for those who have had the actual infection.

And no. You shouldn't be able to endanger everyone else without penalty or censure. Not vaccinating is about the most stupid, selfish and entitled thing you can do, especially in the middle of a pandemic. Hopefully most countries will be sensible enough to not allow you to travel without a vaccine passport. At least then we would restrict you to Switzerland where most of us don't live.

 

[FireballXL5]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

This bloke thought the same as you.

Fitness enthusiast, 42, who rejected vaccine, dies of Covid

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-southport-who-rejected-vaccine-dies-of-covid

 

[Pexbo]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

I’ve read this story loads of times on Twitter already.

Spoiler

You get very sick and then you die

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

But you will get punished..severely and you really won't have a choice then.

 

[Suv666]

Got my 2nd shot of AZ how long before I become invincible?

 

[Solius]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

To still have this outdated dumb opinion at this stage is absolutely unreal There’s endless stories of people who thought they were perfectly fit and healthy and trusted their immune system, and then Covid killed them.

 

[Solius]

Also why stop there? These people that trust their natural immune systems should probably stop wearing shoes and trust the feet they were born with.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

To still have this outdated dumb opinion at this stage is absolutely unreal There’s endless stories of people who thought they were perfectly fit and healthy and trusted their immune system, and then Covid killed them.

There aren't endless people in a statistical sense. If you're young and healthy then you're highly unlikely to become seriously ill if you are unvaccinated. I think it's more of a moral question for people in those demographics, in that do you want to be a person more likely to spread it about and potentially affect the more vulnerable members in society.

 

[Pexbo]

There aren't endless people in a statistical sense. If you're young and healthy then you're highly unlikely to become seriously ill if you are unvaccinated. I think it's more of a moral question for people in those demographics, in that do you want to be a person more likely to spread it about and potentially affect the more vulnerable members in society.

Statistically you’re far better off chancing it with the vaccine rather than the virus:

[The claim] The risk of dying from a vaccine is far lower than 1 in 31,000 and we found no evidence or source for the claim.

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) received reports of 1,143 deaths following vaccination as of 5 May 2021, after almost 35 million people had received a vaccine, but there isn’t proof the deaths were caused by the vaccination.

When large groups of people are vaccinated, especially when elderly and vulnerable people are prioritised, you would expect a certain number of deaths after vaccination, just by chance. The MHRA has said the majority of reported deaths following a vaccine “were in elderly people or people with underlying illness”.

The MHRA has identified a possible link between the AstraZeneca vaccine and a type of serious blood clot, which has been observed in 262 people, killing 51.

The MHRA says the overall incidence of these blood clots is 10.9 per million doses (or 1 in 92,000). Therefore the incidence of death related to these blood clots is around 1 in 470,000.

As the clots appear to be more common in younger people, under 40s are being offeredan alternative to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

The Instagram post asks why a parent would say yes to their child being vaccinated. The Covid-19 vaccines are not currently available for children in the UK, though trialshave been conducted and are ongoing to make sure they are safe for children. Pfizer has asked the MHRA to approve the use of its vaccine in 12 to 15 year-olds.

Its pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that you’re better off chancing yourself with a vaccine rather than a virus.

 

[Swiss_Red89]

There aren't endless people in a statistical sense. If you're young and healthy then you're highly unlikely to become seriously ill if you are unvaccinated. I think it's more of a moral question for people in those demographics, in that do you want to be a person more likely to spread it about and potentially affect the more vulnerable members in society.

The bold part is a fair point. But still, a large part of the vulnerable members, at least in switzerland, already had the vaccine. And as has been proven, one is protected against a severe course after vaccination. So if this is the case, the unvaccinated people shouldn't be a danger for the vaccinated ones.

The argument that unvaccinated people will spread the virus around is unsustainable. Because it is also the case for vaccinated people. It's proven that you still can get the virus after the vaccine and spread it. The benefit of vaccination is mostly that it protects people from a severe course. So you could even argue that vaccinated people are at greater risk of spreading the virus because they are allowed to go into large crowds without testing and may feel a false sense of security.

So if a person, like me, is of the opinion that there are too many question marks and uncertainties surrounding this vaccine and decides to take the risk of a severe course of disease, which is very small especially for people of my age, rather than the risk of short-term or unknown long-term side effects due to the vaccination, then that should be okay, shouldn't it? And this should imo be okay without being in danger of not be able to enter a restaurant without testing (which will cost around 50.- pound per test from october on in Switzerland).

I also want to add that it is almost impossible to eradicate a (Corona)-virus completely with a vaccination. Especially if the vaccine will not stop you from getting the virus and spreading it.
And where to stop with this vaccination? There are already strong talks about the third vaccination. Will a fourth and fifth and sixth follow? In any case, very lucrative for the vaccine manufacturers. (Which, btw, do not even have to assume manufacturer's liability for a vaccine with still only emergency approval.)

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The argument that unvaccinated people will spread the virus around is unsustainable. Because it is also the case for vaccinated people. It's proven that you still can get the virus after the vaccine and spread it. The benefit of vaccination is mostly that it protects people from a severe course. So you could even argue that vaccinated people are at greater risk of spreading the virus because they are allowed to go into large crowds without testing and may feel a false sense of security.

Not this shit again. Why do so many people keep trotting out the same transparently stupid argument? Yes, vaccinated people can catch and transmit the virus. But they’re a lot less likely to catch and transmit the virus. Which helps protect people who are medically ineligible to take the virus by reducing the overall level of virus in the community. Which also helps protect everyone else, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

This is not a difficult concept. How the hell do so many seemingly intelligent people struggle with this?

It’s also not a new concept. We always knew this would happen. The fact that vaccinated people are more likely to catch/transmit the virus than we had hoped based on previous variants does mean that eradication of the virus looks unlikely. So that’s new information. The fact that getting vaccinates helps save the lives of you and others remains as true now as it was when we first discovered the vaccines work.

 

[Balljy]

I also want to add that it is almost impossible to eradicate a (Corona)-virus completely with a vaccination. Especially if the vaccine will not stop you from getting the virus and spreading it.
And where to stop with this vaccination? There are already strong talks about the third vaccination. Will a fourth and fifth and sixth follow? In any case, very lucrative for the vaccine manufacturers. (Which, btw, do not even have to assume manufacturer's liability for a vaccine with still only emergency approval.)

That's what happens with endemic diseases like influenza and what Covid is likely to become with flu jabs being normal for years. The difference at the moment is that Covid was a novel virus so there was zero natural immunity with the whole population being at risk without a baseline immunity.

When influenza mutated to a novel strain with Spanish Flu in the early 1900's tens of millions of people died. We of course didn't have the capability to do global lockdowns or produce vaccines like we do now, but it shows what this pandemics can do without science helping.

Also, there are at least some manufacturers (AZ) selling vaccines at cost price to poorer countries during the pandemic.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The “gene based” stuff is obviously stupid too. Unless you shit yourself every time you catch every viral illness, ever. Because guess what? Those viruses are injecting you with their mRNA too.

 

[Zippy20]

I'll only consider getting vaccinated once there are other vaccines available.
For me it's a moral question, whether i want to support DNA and/or mRNA technology and i decided against it for now.
I don't want to support teaching the human body to produce something that it normally wouldn't.
I also don't want to receive DNA that's not my own in my cell nucleuses, NOT because i'm scared of some weird Bill Gatesy conspiracy theories or because i'd think that the vaccines don't work - i'm sure they do -, but I do have concerns about the possible future development of such technologies. In a way, new methods are always "experimental", because they're often the basis that leads to further development, maybe even away from its use as a vaccine - and i don't want a kind of gene therapy to become the "new normal" some day. And to make it clearer - i'm not "scared" of mRNA as such, that would be silly, i just dislike the method.

On the other hand, yes, i do trust my immune system to cope with the virus, i'm aware that there's a (not very high) risk for me, but a bit similar to Swiss_Red89 i already had the virus twice, had very mild symptoms the first time, then no symptoms at all the second time, so i must have some basic immunity at this point...

So you could even argue that vaccinated people are at greater risk of spreading the virus because they are allowed to go into large crowds without testing and may feel a false sense of security.

Agree with this.

 

[Balljy]

I'll only consider getting vaccinated once there are other vaccines available.
For me it's a moral question, whether i want to support DNA and/or MRNA technology and i decided against it for now.
I don't want to support teaching the human body to produce something that it normally wouldn't.
I also don't want to receive DNA that's not my own in my cell nucleuses, NOT because i'm scared of some weird Billy Gatesy conspiracy theories or because i'd think that the vaccines don't work - i'm sure they do -, but I do have concerns about the possible future development of such technologies. In a way, new methods are always "experimental", because they're often the basis that leads to further development, maybe even away from its use as a vaccine - and i don't want a kind of gene therapy to become the "new normal" some day.

On the other hand, yes, i do trust my immune system to cope with the virus, i'm aware that there's a (not very high) risk for me, but a bit similar to Swiss_Red89 i already had the virus twice, had very mild symptoms the first time, then no symptoms at all the second time, so i must have some basic immunity at this point...

I'll let Pogue lay into the rest of your post with all its inaccuracies about "DNA" and everything else that was put to bed as not true a long time ago and many times, but there are already traditional vaccines available and there has been since day 1.

 

[fishfingers15]

I accept and understand everyone who decides to get the vaccine.

Personally, I will not take it.
I trust my natural immune system more than an experimental gene-based vaccination.
I'm doing a lot for my body health via a healthy nutrition, Sport and activity in the fresh air plus enough relaxation and sleep.
I had the virus last year and nearly felt anything expect of two days of mild flu symptoms.

Everybody should be able to make this decision without being punished for it.

Says a guy who most definitely took polio, MMR, measles etc.

Douche.

 

[Zippy20]

I'll let Pogue lay into the rest of your post with all its inaccuracies about "DNA" and everything else that was put to bed as not true a long time ago and many times, but there are already traditional vaccines available and there has been since day 1.

Not in Germany.

 

[fishfingers15]

The “gene based” stuff is obviously stupid too. Unless you shit yourself every time you catch every viral illness, ever. Because guess what? Those viruses are injecting you with their mRNA too.

My accountant cousin parrots the same although having no big background on biology and vaccine studies. It's all about doing your own research nowadays. She is not vaccine hesitant but just waiting for a better vaccination. Duh

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'll only consider getting vaccinated once there are other vaccines available.
For me it's a moral question, whether i want to support DNA and/or mRNA technology and i decided against it for now.
I don't want to support teaching the human body to produce something that it normally wouldn't.
I also don't want to receive DNA that's not my own in my cell nucleuses, NOT because i'm scared of some weird Bill Gatesy conspiracy theories or because i'd think that the vaccines don't work - i'm sure they do -, but I do have concerns about the possible future development of such technologies. In a way, new methods are always "experimental", because they're often the basis that leads to further development, maybe even away from its use as a vaccine - and i don't want a kind of gene therapy to become the "new normal" some day. And to make it clearer - i'm not "scared" of mRNA as such, that would be silly, i just dislike the method.

On the other hand, yes, i do trust my immune system to cope with the virus, i'm aware that there's a (not very high) risk for me, but a bit similar to Swiss_Red89 i already had the virus twice, had very mild symptoms the first time, then no symptoms at all the second time, so i must have some basic immunity at this point...

You’ve piqued my curiosity now. Give me your absolutely worst case scenario for future use of mRNA technology?

Only I can come up with a long list of amazing medicines against rare and/or serious illnesses we will likely see in the years ahead based on this technology. Will you refuse all of them too?

 

[Big-Red]

Absolute bolloxology in here lately.

Trusting your immune system is such a gamble it's not even funny. My mate got Covid after 1 dose of the vaccine, week in bed, still fatigued, still cant taste and smell 4 weeks on. That for most people is the "mild" symptoms. Why would anyone willingly risk that.

2 vaccine doses, bit sleepy and sore for 1 day and back to normal. Absolutely mind boggling to reject that for maybe being asymptomatic.

 

[Balljy]

Not in Germany.

That does raise an interesting one. I think your reasoning is flawed and there hasn't been a better proof of safety in history than giving mRNA vaccines to a huge amount of people in the world, but for people that don't want to use that technology keeping the traditional vaccines on the table in every country is probably a good idea.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Statistically you’re far better off chancing it with the vaccine rather than the virus:




Its pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that you’re better off chancing yourself with a vaccine rather than a virus.

Sure but I'm talking about the probability of a a young and healthy unvaccinated person becoming seriously ill from Covid-19. It's a fairly remote possibility.

 

[Pexbo]

Sure but I'm talking about the probability of a a young and healthly unvaccinated person becoming seriously ill from Covid-19. It's a fairly remote possibility.

I know you are, and I’m pointing out that the probability of a young and healthy person becoming seriously ill from a COVID—19 vaccination is a much further remote possibility again.



If you had a lottery ticket which needed 6 numbers to win the jackpot and someone offered you to swap it for a ticket which only needed 5 numbers to win the jackpot, would you swap it or would you say “you know what, they’re both really unlikely anyway so I can’t be bothered to swap it”?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I know you are, and I’m pointing out that the probability of a young and healthy person becoming seriously ill from a COVID—19 vaccination is a much further remote possibility again.



If you had a lottery ticket which needed 6 numbers to win the jackpot and someone offered you to swap it for a ticket which only needed 5 numbers to win the jackpot, would you swap it or would you say “you know what, they’re both really unlikely anyway so I can’t be bothered to swap it”?

More like 6 numbers vs 600.

 

[Solius]

 

[mitChley]

Sure but I'm talking about the probability of a a young and healthy unvaccinated person becoming seriously ill from Covid-19. It's a fairly remote possibility.

Except it isn't. It has been shown time and time again that chances of serious ill health or death from a vaccine is less than that of Covid.
How much of a risk changes through the age groups, and at one point it was the case where under 40s were at a higher risk from AZ than Covid, hence the changes to Pfizer and Moderna in the UK.
What can be confidently said at the moment though is that the Covid risk far outweighs the Vaccine risk. Maybe one day that will go swap again, but not for a long time.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I know you are, and I’m pointing out that the probability of a young and healthy person becoming seriously ill from a COVID—19 vaccination is a much further remote possibility again.



If you had a lottery ticket which needed 6 numbers to win the jackpot and someone offered you to swap it for a ticket which only needed 5 numbers to win the jackpot, would you swap it or would you say “you know what, they’re both really unlikely anyway so I can’t be bothered to swap it”?

It depends on what your view on vaccinations are. I got pretty ill from my Covid vaccine and if there was no greater societal good to it, knowing how ill I got coupled with the probability of me actually getting seriously ill from Covid then I might reconsider if I wanted it or not. I'm really low risk considering all the lifestyle and health factors that are known to increase the chances of catching and then becoming seriously ill from Covid.

Some people also have a profound fear of needles and I don't think it's totally irrational to be wary of new medications that come to the market in the initial stages.

Except it isn't. It has been shown time and time again that chances of serious ill health or death from a vaccine is less than that of Covid.
That changes through the age groups, and at one point it was the case where under 40s were at a higher risk from AZ than Covid, hence the changes to Pfizer and Moderna in the UK.

That's not what I'm talking about.

 

[mitChley]

That's not what I'm talking about.

You're right, I only scrolled on this page and it looked that way but going back a page I can see you were making some equally dense, but different, point.