That's what the thread addresses. The confounding variable is age.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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That's what the thread addresses. The confounding variable is age.
It's this graph that I keep seeing quoted on the booster issue.
I've seen the raw overall efficacy/efficiency number successfully dismantled by Chise and a couple of others now. It's that month by month thing that I've not seen the real numbers or background on.
My instincts say - they started with the oldest, the highest risk healthcare workers and the cities (likely the highest socialisation stats) hence the graph. But I've not seen the details - like month by month demographics etc.
I know a couple of Twitter people have suggested that the (more) unvaxxed groups in Israel are different to the (most) vaxxed. One element that's come up is with some less vaxxed orthodox groups, less socialising outside the community, and less travel etc.
It feels like the confounders could be important. The UK data may look different (and not just because it's a month or so behind).
Can we add a ‘Not going to have the vaccine for any reason’ to the poll? Would be interesting to hear some view points from those who don’t want it or can’t have it.
Effectively that's the ten years+ group. Anyone who's waiting for that long is planning on catching the SARS2 virus and hoping it doesn't hurt them or their friends, family, contacts.
I was Moderna and was 101.3F the next day. Lay in bed mostly.
I got out of bed but barely.
Whoops. Jamaica. Trying to get as many vaccinated as possible partially.This made me laugh more than it should. Twice Ramshock asked where and ….
Initially went well but not a major country so supplies delayed uptake. We're finally getting supplies in now to get to 50% or more by end of the year but there's not been enough dosages applied since end of July when supply was no longer a problem.
We're around 300k first and single doses but only around 140k fully vaxxed.
Population is around 3 million so way off the target we have which is 2 million by March and 1 million by October.
So we'll definitely be taking longer between doses. J & J is supposed to be at least half of that 1 million target though and that should be arriving by end of the month so we'll see what happens there.
€2k if you use one and 3 years if you're selling them.
Yup - I was discussing this with @Wibble and expecting FDA to reccomend a booster shot for the entire general population.
My 73yo mother had her 3rd jab yesterday (Astra Zeneca*). Apparently she was puking last night (She blames it on a cold beer she had at lunch) but feeling much better today.
Makes me feel good knowing she should be quite protected.
*The first two doses were Sinovac.
Makes me feel good knowing she should be quite protected.
*The first two doses were Sinovac.
Context
Most likely I won't take one for the time being as I already had COVID 5 months ago and still have antibodies. Probably next year, but will wait to see how each vaccine fares with the delta.
There's no shortage of vaccines otherwise.
I looks like Australia is planning a third Delta tweaked shot of Modena or Pfiser for everyone in 2022.
Your immunity will almost certainly be better if you are vaccinated now and you can still get a Delta tweaked shot when they are available.
Had my second shot the other day and have been pleasantly surprised that I suffered no side effects from neither that nor the first one, apart from a tiny bit of soreness in the arm.
More great stuff on vaccine efficacy from Denmark.
This is really interesting because while there are variations in the mRNA sequence the amino acid sequence, based on this, is identical for the 2 vaccines. I wonder if this is suggesting that Moderna's carrier method is more effective than Pfizers? They are both using lipids, and from what I have read they use some in common, so the few differences must be key. Can't wait to see the follow up papers on this.
there must be a substantial difference in vectors (right word?) given the different storage temps (-80, -20)
Not sure. I found this website breaking down the carrier and transport media compositions and there are some differences but they are both using the same idea (cationic lipid nanoparticles). I am guessing that the Moderna lipids may be more stable at the "lower" temp, either due to the lipds themselves or modifications to the transport media.
A Simple Breakdown of the Ingredients in the COVID Vaccines - COVID-19, Health Topics - Hackensack Meridian Health
Maybe it could be the does of vaccine given? The Moderna jab gives you 100 micrograms of vaccine compared to 30 micrograms with Phizer. There didn't appear to be much effect from that, but possibly it's showing its effect over time.
Observational data is notoriously bad at identifying “real” differences between treatments. Loads of confounding variables. Especially in a scenario like this where one intervention was used much more often than the other (Pfizer doses vastly out-number Moderna throughout the EU)
My only take home from this would be that both vaccines give excellent protection rather than wondering if one vaccine is better than the other.
Having my 2nd dose of Pfizer this morning. Had no symptoms except a sore arm for a day after my first dose.
Some more data coming from a large UK study. It is adding to the data that AZ seems to keep its effectiveness over a longer period of time, but the mRNA vaccines are more effective immediately so the drop-off makes them around the same level as AZ after 5 months.
It again shows how effective all the vaccines are and how well they are holding up in the UK against Delta.
https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/covid-19/covid-19-infection-survey/results/new-studies
It again shows how effective all the vaccines are and how well they are holding up in the UK against Delta.
https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/covid-19/covid-19-infection-survey/results/new-studies
Just had my second dose of AZ(Covishield in India) two days ago. No symptoms at all.
Now 53.8. Only just realised there was a poll.
Some reassuring data from vaccine effectiveness against delta. It seems that timing of the doses really is key to longer lasting protection and a booster dose to the most vulnerable seems the right way to go.
It's because the cafe is full of old farts. The number is probably higher but one of the things about being old is your memory doesn't work as well. I only just remembered I had both doses by June but have only remembered to update the poll. I've moved it up to 54% now.
Guiltily as chargedIt's because the cafe is full of old farts. The number is probably higher but one of the things about being old is your memory doesn't work as well. I only just remembered I had both doses by June but have only remembered to update the poll. I've moved it up to 54% now.
Not really; I’d simply avoided the thread because I doubted whether it was a place for reasonable discourse.
Had my second dose of Moderna on Monday. Was told by the other half to take some paracetamol before bed but because I’m an absolute machine I didn’t bother. Anyway, came home from work at break time the next day as I was all over the place. Loads of ibuprofen and a nap and I was fine the day after.
Pretty glad all in all. Convinced I had a really weird side effect after the first dose but no repeat of that.
Pretty glad all in all. Convinced I had a really weird side effect after the first dose but no repeat of that.
No doubt this is the case, but everything I have ready suggests there is a real difference in the immunity provided by the 2 vaccines. There have been a few small scale studies looking at differences in IgG levels (GMT) and ID50's. Moderna does seem to produce higher GMT's, but it's hard to know if that is real without a large scale controlled study. That's what I meant by being excited about the follow up papers. Hopefully the lessons learned will help in the design of the second generation of mRNA vaccines,
Moderna
First dose, arm wrecked for a few days but felt fine ltherwise
Second dose, ill for two days then a banging headache for a couple of days after that
Glad they’re done.
First dose, arm wrecked for a few days but felt fine ltherwise
Second dose, ill for two days then a banging headache for a couple of days after that
Glad they’re done.
The study I linked earlier also suggests similar.
- A single dose of the Moderna vaccine has similar or greater effectiveness against the Delta variant as single doses of the other vaccines.
https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/covid-19/covid-19-infection-survey/results/new-studies
Here is one of the studies I was referring to;
Correlation of vaccine-elicited antibody levels and neutralizing activities against SARS-CoV-2 and its variants | bioRxiv
Warning: It is in bioRxiv, which is not in of itself a bad thing, just that it has not been peer reviewed yet. bioRxiv is a great resource for getting data out quickly, but it does skip the peer review process.
Edit:
Did the briefest of skims of the paper you linked and it was pretty interesting. Not really buying the conclusion in this study of Moderna offering better protection against Delta though as the data was pretty slim (not necessarily their fault) and hey added lots of caveats to the claim. This doesn't mean there is not a difference, I think there is, but a more robust dataset is needed to make the claim.
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Just got this press release. I guess the Kennedys know a thing or two about conspiracy theories. I'm sure people would've noticed 12,791 deaths from the vaccine though.
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. urges journalists to do their own research, report the truth about COVID vaccine risks, injuries and deaths
Washington, DC - Children’s Health Defense (CHD) Board Chair Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. today is calling upon mainstream media to investigate and report on many issues central to the COVID crisis that have either been mischaracterized or suppressed altogether. This type of journalism at the same time embraces the Pharma/government agenda which silences those who criticize or even question that agenda, all while obscuring the totalitarian impacts of proposed vaccine mandates and passports.
“The cornerstone of any democratic society is freedom,” said Kennedy. “The people of this country should have free speech and the freedom to decide what medical interventions they do or don’t want. Never in our nation’s history have those freedoms been as threatened as they are today.”
Some of the facts that have been inaccurately reported or swept under the rug include:
Viable and readily available treatments for COVID have been withheld so that vaccines could get Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). The only way experimental vaccines could have been granted this status was in the absence of treatments. That led to the media-endorsed idea that no early and effective treatments were available. People have died because of this fallacy that has been relentlessly presented day after day to the public by the media.
No healthy individual should die or be injured from a vaccine. We are now approaching a time when the injuries and deaths from the vaccine will likely surpass those from the virus. Between mid-December, 2020 and August 5 of this year, 571,831 total adverse events including 12,791 deaths have been reported to our government’s Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), yet the media maintains a blackout on the topic. By comparison, when it became known that an estimated 50 people died after receiving the swine flu shot in 1976, that vaccination campaign was immediately shut down.
The COVID vaccine does not prevent transmission. As stated in the documentation upon which the FDA granted EUA status to COVID vaccines, and as the CDC recently acknowledged to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, COVID vaccines do not stop transmission of the virus, one of the chief goals of any vaccine. Shaming the unvaccinated for new COVID cases is baseless and dangerously divisive.
Children are at extremely low risk of death or hospitalization from COVID and there is no justification for recommending this vaccine to kids. The COVID survival rate across all age groups is 98.23% and in children, it is even higher at 99.985% calling into question the need for widespread COVID vaccination of any age group but especially for children who are at such minimal risk from COVID.
COVID vaccines are not helping society reach herd immunity. It’s becoming increasingly apparent that the vaccinated are spreading the virus just as easily as the unvaccinated. And while the vaccinated are still getting COVID, they will become sentenced to a lifetime of booster shots that will continue to cause injuries and deaths as we’re currently seeing in the VAERS data. Yet the media perpetuates the falsehood that more boosters are the way out of the epidemic—especially now that it’s becoming apparent that the original COVID vaccines are failing.
The origins of COVID-19 remain shrouded in secrecy by the media. Even though Congress has launched an investigation, the media is still providing guidance on the epidemic and COVID vaccines based on Dr. Anthony Fauci’s recommendations. As Dr. Fauci may well be responsible for funding this dangerous science at the Wuhan Lab, and his vaccine conflicts of interests have come into question, his ability to lead the response to the epidemic has been compromised beyond repair.
“Human rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights are being decimated,” said Kennedy. “Mandates are morally and spiritually wrong for America and the world. No human should ever be forced or coerced by their employer, school or government to have a medical procedure, including vaccines, against their will. Where is the outcry against this travesty from our leaders and the media? It’s time for the media and the public to break free from the Pharma-backed vaccine paradigm and instead embrace the liberty upon which this country was founded.”
Children's Health Defense is devoted to the health of people and our planet. Our mission is to end the childhood health epidemics by working aggressively to eliminate harmful exposures, hold those responsible accountable, and establish safeguards to prevent future harm.
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. urges journalists to do their own research, report the truth about COVID vaccine risks, injuries and deaths
Washington, DC - Children’s Health Defense (CHD) Board Chair Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. today is calling upon mainstream media to investigate and report on many issues central to the COVID crisis that have either been mischaracterized or suppressed altogether. This type of journalism at the same time embraces the Pharma/government agenda which silences those who criticize or even question that agenda, all while obscuring the totalitarian impacts of proposed vaccine mandates and passports.
“The cornerstone of any democratic society is freedom,” said Kennedy. “The people of this country should have free speech and the freedom to decide what medical interventions they do or don’t want. Never in our nation’s history have those freedoms been as threatened as they are today.”
Some of the facts that have been inaccurately reported or swept under the rug include:
Viable and readily available treatments for COVID have been withheld so that vaccines could get Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). The only way experimental vaccines could have been granted this status was in the absence of treatments. That led to the media-endorsed idea that no early and effective treatments were available. People have died because of this fallacy that has been relentlessly presented day after day to the public by the media.
No healthy individual should die or be injured from a vaccine. We are now approaching a time when the injuries and deaths from the vaccine will likely surpass those from the virus. Between mid-December, 2020 and August 5 of this year, 571,831 total adverse events including 12,791 deaths have been reported to our government’s Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), yet the media maintains a blackout on the topic. By comparison, when it became known that an estimated 50 people died after receiving the swine flu shot in 1976, that vaccination campaign was immediately shut down.
The COVID vaccine does not prevent transmission. As stated in the documentation upon which the FDA granted EUA status to COVID vaccines, and as the CDC recently acknowledged to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, COVID vaccines do not stop transmission of the virus, one of the chief goals of any vaccine. Shaming the unvaccinated for new COVID cases is baseless and dangerously divisive.
Children are at extremely low risk of death or hospitalization from COVID and there is no justification for recommending this vaccine to kids. The COVID survival rate across all age groups is 98.23% and in children, it is even higher at 99.985% calling into question the need for widespread COVID vaccination of any age group but especially for children who are at such minimal risk from COVID.
COVID vaccines are not helping society reach herd immunity. It’s becoming increasingly apparent that the vaccinated are spreading the virus just as easily as the unvaccinated. And while the vaccinated are still getting COVID, they will become sentenced to a lifetime of booster shots that will continue to cause injuries and deaths as we’re currently seeing in the VAERS data. Yet the media perpetuates the falsehood that more boosters are the way out of the epidemic—especially now that it’s becoming apparent that the original COVID vaccines are failing.
The origins of COVID-19 remain shrouded in secrecy by the media. Even though Congress has launched an investigation, the media is still providing guidance on the epidemic and COVID vaccines based on Dr. Anthony Fauci’s recommendations. As Dr. Fauci may well be responsible for funding this dangerous science at the Wuhan Lab, and his vaccine conflicts of interests have come into question, his ability to lead the response to the epidemic has been compromised beyond repair.
“Human rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights are being decimated,” said Kennedy. “Mandates are morally and spiritually wrong for America and the world. No human should ever be forced or coerced by their employer, school or government to have a medical procedure, including vaccines, against their will. Where is the outcry against this travesty from our leaders and the media? It’s time for the media and the public to break free from the Pharma-backed vaccine paradigm and instead embrace the liberty upon which this country was founded.”
# # #
Children's Health Defense is devoted to the health of people and our planet. Our mission is to end the childhood health epidemics by working aggressively to eliminate harmful exposures, hold those responsible accountable, and establish safeguards to prevent future harm.
the SII disparity i knew, didn't know how bad the others were.
The discussion is slowly but surely going to drift into the narrative and question when the boosters will be deployed. Israel is seen as a case study right now, considering the surge and breakthrough infections they are experiencing due to potential vaccine efficiency waning and other factors.
Depressing stuff that makes the whole argument around boosters even more depressing.