She sounds very similar to me in terms of level of Asthma then. I've been vaccinated because of it. I am 44 though, so age may have played a part in me getting it sooner.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
Everybody?
I’m ok with them being used now. It’s not fair IMO to have to wait until (insert country name here) decides to buy the vaccines. That will literally take another one or two years.
Or did you just mean everybody in a certain country? Even so if the oldies, etc in my area now want to travel and are fully vaccinated then good for them. I’ll wait till I’m ready.
Everyone as in everyone in the countries operating the vaccine passports or everyone in the world? Let's face it, the 2nd option is unrealistic.
Me too, the sooner we can fly the better
Everybody in your country. Once your country has its population vaccinated, the passport can come into operation and the borders can be open for others to come in who have also been vaccinated. And vice versa. Anybody who hasn't is still subject to quarantine.
Whilst personally I'd want them launched as soon as possible, I think it would be acceptable to wait till everyone in the country has had the opportunity to be vaccinated, if some anti-vaxxer wants to remain on a no-fly list, that's their prerogative.
There'll be some countries that take years to get vaccinated so that's probably viable for the richer countries but not poorer ones and the latter would suffer disproportionally if they're not allowed to open borders until they're fully vaccinated. I read today that the Philippines is hoping for a 2 year rollout and there will be other countries far longer than that.
I can see that being the fair way to do it in richer countries though.
I suppose countries can open their borders as they see fit, but they shouldn't be issuing passports until everybody there has had the opportunity to get vaccinated though.
I strongly suspect the EU wont be opening its borders to non vaccinated travelers for a long time. You still have people within who can't get vaccinated for health reasons.
Ahhh, I see. Makes sense if it's done that way.
The plan within the EU is to fudge that issue by giving people who have previously been infected and/or have a negative recent test result the same status as someone who has been vaccinated.
A terrible idea, doomed to fail (IMO) but the only way to get around this idea of “fairness” for people who can’t/won’t get vaccinated.
I think once most people in a country have had vaccines, Covid will become 'just like the flu' in terms of its burden on healthcare. Then countries will be free to open up.
I'm not desperate to fly anywhere so I'm kind of neutral, but I wonder how stopping people that have been vaccinated from flying helps people who haven't been vaccinated who can't fly. What do they gain by stopping others?
Hopefully. Although variants can still play havoc. One study has show the AZ vaccine to have 21% efficacy against the SA variant. So allowing a steady flow of South Africans, without any checks, into the UK could be catastrophic.
It’s possible that the low efficacy against infection might not be the whole story. There could still be decent protection against death/hospitalisations but we won’t know for certain for quite some time. And we certainly won’t know as soon as the next new variant starts causing problems.
Nothing. It’s about fairness. Which, to me, is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
If the EU version of a covid passport doesn't differentiate many country's won't accept it at all and you will have to prove vaccination another way or pay for quarantine anyway. Sounds like a horrible idea.
That will be up to those countries and how highly they value their tourism industry, unfortunately.
I also haven’t heard of any other country/region going with a stricter plan. The issue seems to be a lack of political will to be seen to “punish” people who can’t/won’t take vaccines. Unfortunately, politics usually wins out.
@Pogue Mahone and others well versed into the science of vaccines
If given the choice, which one would you take (add Johnson & Johnson as well):
Personally, I'd take Moderna based on absolutely fck all but curious to hear your view.
If given the choice, which one would you take (add Johnson & Johnson as well):
Personally, I'd take Moderna based on absolutely fck all but curious to hear your view.
I thought Janssen was Dutch/US instead of Belgian.
@Pogue Mahone and others well versed into the science of vaccines
If given the choice, which one would you take (add Johnson & Johnson as well):
Personally, I'd take Moderna based on absolutely fck all but curious to hear your view.
The obvious answer is take the one you’re offered!
It’s really impossible to know which one is “best” as cross trial comparisons are so unreliable. If I had to choose, I’d probably go with Pfizer, as I’d get my second dose quickly and the data coming out of Israel shows really solid evidence of real life efficacy (because you can never be absolutely certain trial results will be replicated in real life) AZ would be my second choice, for the same reason.
Fine for me even before, as long as quick tests are free and equally accepted.
We can't be having a situation where pregnant women, people who can't have the vaccine due to illness/weakness and people at the back of the queue are being utterly fecked over and discriminated against.
I'm not sure about that. Haven't Greece already stated that it will be open to all UK travelers with or without proof of vaccination in the summer if the role out of vaccines is completed on or near its current schedule?
Instant accurate testing is the big thing I feel we’ve failed at so far. If you could nail that this thing is finished. I really thought it would be here by now - that’ll teach me for believing in Boris’ operation Moonpig
Excellent idea and it should be from day 1 as it is an essential step back to normality. It or something similar will be essential.for international travel anyway.
I’m in agreement. If you’re vaccinated, go for it
I just don’t see how a negative test can be equivalent to proof of vaccination. In hotel quarantines we’re asking people to have a negative test on arrival and another one a week later. Makes a bit of a mockery of these precautions if anyone can rock through the airport with a single negative test and immediately start licking door handles.
And that’s without getting into the headfeck of making sure everyone has equally reliable testing available, wherever they are based.
I think many countries who have managed covid well will be much stricter.
Great idea. Will open economies up and get them off their knees, specially the service sector. But also airlines, etc, too. If it means self entitled Brits acting like idiots abroad then it's a price worth paying just for this year.
We also don't know if some people only get 3 months of protection for the vaccines either so I'm not sure that's the best argument for the mass discrimination it would involve in allowing vaccinated people to do what the feck they like (and make no mistake, rich people will be getting vaccinated in UAE and other places) whilst others still have to wait to start their lives again. The anger and resentment it would cause would be horrendous.
Once a decent proportion of the population in a country has been vaccinated it'll be more or less "same same" with a negative test and a v.passport.
Agreed.
Any examples? Have you seen proposals for vaccine passports that are different to what the EU is considering?
If Nan Daphne, who got her second jab in Feb, wants to visit me in August and has a vaccine passport; can you or anyone assure me she can't carry or pass on Covid?
If my preggers missus tests negative in June for Covid, and wants to take a trip back to the UK, who is more of a "threat to society"?
Can we even answer these questions with any degree of certainty in order to discriminate to that degree? Hmmmmm......
The alternative is letting tourism continue to die on its arse until every last citizen, everywhere, has been offered a vaccine by their government. To me it makes perfect sense to get everyone who can travel safely to start spending their saving as soon as possible. Even if others might be jealous. A small price to pay IMO.
If the EU covid passport doesn't differentiate between people who have been infected and those who have been vaccinated I very much doubt NZ, AU, Singapore etc will accept it.
But can you or anyone answer the question above to green light that level of discrimination ?
As I've mentioned before, I had my yellow feber jab back in 06 in order to travel to Panama, so it's not a new or novel thing, but it would be monumental discrimination against so many to do what you're suggesting. I can't agree with that level of discrimination when we don't even have all the answers about which is safer, a "negative test today" or a "vaccine 5 months ago".
Tests are unreliable and even when accurate only reflect the viral load when the test is taken.
A vaccination passport will provide far more certainty even if not 100% protection.
Well the information was quickly clarified by another member so the Caf did do something about it. Luckily we have a lot of very smart people here who are happy to explain complicated stuff to the rest of us who lack the medical background to figure it out ourselves.
Why would people be against the idea of vaccinated people travelling as soon as they can, other than envy?
You can't say that with any certainty whatsoever Wibbs, because even the scientists behind the vaccines have no idea how long the protection will last, nor if for some it could be extremely short-lived.
It is a health issue so you deal with it as such. Start trying to make is a political issue and millions die as has happened already. Economically it would be hugely damaging not to use covid passports to get travel up and running again ASAP.
A negative test before flying for someone who is already vaccinated would be the ideal IMO. Even that won’t be watertight but a big improvement on the alternatives.
This is a bit if a moot point, in my opinion, as it’s not going to happen. I think the EU proposed approach will be replicated everywhere.