The Trump Presidency - Part 2

moses said:
This is similar to the discussions in the 90s about the internet itself and how it would democratise information. Look how that turned out. Regulation was argued against then and will be now I fear.
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Its gotta happen, profit and power motive is too compelling for these guys we need a way to somewhat control/affect how this plays out and what part we play in this. Like @Zehner says, it could be amazing.... scientific and medical breakthroughs, wealth redistribution etc... but if we autopilot (or sleepwalk) into this, it could be dystopian as feck

It's a balance, full steam ahead allows drastic changes in short time, which we'll likely be unprepared for. Over regulation means we may lag behind and end up relying on others for services or being at a disadvantage. This is one we we need to listen to the experts and make informed decisions along the way. Set smart restrictions, prioritize alignment and safety. Even though ithe American government, and others, seem to be more concerned about influencing their population instead of working for them. Most of the tech guys are diving headfirst into advancing AI through to superintelligence, and against regulation. It's good that a guy like Ilya S is right there as he should see the dangers as they arrive, and is likely to tell us about it.
 
WPMUFC said:
Their entire ideology is founded on a bedrock of projection. They can and will justify everything as "just doing what the left does". Conservatism is nothing more than a deep mental illness at this point that lives in a self-contained world of conspiracy and hysteria.
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Don‘t call it conservatism, the Maga republicans are no conservatives. If they were, they would respect the law and the constitution.
 
afrocentricity said:
Its gotta happen, profit and power motive is too compelling for these guys we need a way to somewhat control/affect how this plays out and what part we play in this. Like @Zehner says, it could be amazing.... scientific and medical breakthroughs, wealth redistribution etc... but if we autopilot (or sleepwalk) into this, it could be dystopian as feck
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Narrator: It was dystopian as feck.
 
NLunited said:
Don‘t call it conservatism, the Maga republicans are no conservatives. If they were, they would respect the law and the constitution.
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It is conservatism. It is what conservatism is today in the United States.

The "no true scotsman" dance performed to whitewash supposed "actual pure conservatism" is maddening. Whatever "conservative" once meant in the United States is irrelevant because they all lined up obediently behind God Emperor Trump and allowed him to dictate and dominate the political right. He reshaped it into his own image, and lo and behold, it's vile.
 
Red in STL said:
Not that anything will happen but isn't this technically an act of war?
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Even if its somehow with the blessing of the Mexicans - it's just another way for the Trump regime to show it can do whatever it wants. Like this theatre meeting with the Russians in Saudi Arabia is meant to show the Europeans have no say. The optics of it in some ways are worse than what is actually being done so far.
 
Redplane said:
Even if its somehow with the blessing of the Mexicans - it's just another way for the Trump regime to show it can do whatever it wants. Like this theatre meeting with the Russians in Saudi Arabia is meant to show the Europeans have no say. The optics of it in some ways are worse than what is actually being done so far.
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It wouldn't be 'covert' if the Mexican's knew, but yes it's Trump saying to the world, I don't give a feck what you want or think, I'm doing whatever I want
 
Siorac said:
It is conservatism. It is what conservatism is today in the United States.

The "no true scotsman" dance performed to whitewash supposed "actual pure conservatism" is maddening. Whatever "conservative" once meant in the United States is irrelevant because they all lined up obediently behind God Emperor Trump and allowed him to dictate and dominate the political right. He reshaped it into his own image, and lo and behold, it's vile.
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It‘s not though. Conservatism has traits historically, and these guys aren‘t conservatives. They are fascists.
 
JPRouve said:
For americans are MAGA voters around you shocked or have a negative opinion of what is happening or is it just an online thing?
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Domestically delighted but geopolitically a disaster, dad sees the latter as sowing confusion to the benefit of nobody but our enemies but the former as necessary. Of course people care more about those things that are more relevant to themselves.

Expect it would be the same paradigm when Europe inevitably elects more right wing parties too, which is exactly why the left need to come to grips with immigration and national borders, instead of emotionally blackmailing people actually do what Denmark did and the whole thing falls apart. Nobody will vote to willingly see their nation fall apart humans are inherently tribal, you hold a continent wide referendum on things like refugees and migrants tomorrow and it would be stopped quicker than you could get online and call it racism.
 
NLunited said:
It‘s not though. Conservatism has traits historically, and these guys aren‘t conservatives. They are fascists.
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Conservatism wore various guises through history but ultimately, its core is the belief that society is supposed to be hierarchical and a preferred in-group should be at the top of the hierarchy. Everything else is details.

The current face and symbol of this belief system is Donald Trump, at least in the United States. It shows that conservatism has become nastier, left behind its more liberal trappings. It's what the people who identify as conservatives want and cheer.
 
moses said:
This is similar to the discussions in the 90s about the internet itself and how it would democratise information. Look how that turned out. Regulation was argued against then and will be now I fear.
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The cat has been out of the box for decades, with or without regulations.

Internet is in and by itself an absolutely revolutionary tool that changed all of our lives forever. Never had so many access to so much information and knowledge. But it's very nature makes it extremely hard to regulate and control, and it also drove an even deeper wedge between those who have it and those who don't. I personally think that we entered a phase of technological evolution where the human mind simply isn't able to predict and keep up with the long-term consequences.

It's a technological Blitzkrieg where by the time we realize one danger, the position we're in has been long overrun.

AI will exponentially compound on that.
 
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That_Bloke said:
The cat has been out of the box for decades, with or without regulations.

Internet is in and by itself an absolutely revolutionary tool that changed all of our lives forever. Never had so many access to so much information and knowledge. But it's very nature makes it extremely hard to regulate and control, and it also drove an even deeper wedge between those who have and those who don't. I personally think that we're entering a phase of technological evolution where the human mind simply isn't able to predict and keep up with the long-term consequences.

It's a technological Blitzkrieg where by the time we realize one danger, the position we're in has been long overrun.

AI will exponentially compound on that.
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Not at the outset. But yep, that horse has bolted.
 
moses said:
Not at the outset. But yep, that horse has bolted.
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You have to put things in context. Suddenly, distances, and time to an extent, meant nothing. There was a realm of possibilities absolutely unheard of.

Given how the human mind works, and its emphasis on curiosity (as well as potential profits) rather than security, any serious attempt at controlling and regulating a new technology was futile to begin with.

Now we're facing the same situation with AI. We just never learn.
 
NLunited said:
Don‘t call it conservatism, the Maga republicans are no conservatives. If they were, they would respect the law and the constitution.
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The democrats are the “conservative” party now, there is no liberal party.

But it’s time to start one.
 
That_Bloke said:
The cat has been out of the box for decades, with or without regulations.

Internet is in and by itself an absolutely revolutionary tool that changed all of our lives forever. Never had so many access to so much information and knowledge. But it's very nature makes it extremely hard to regulate and control, and it also drove an even deeper wedge between those who have it and those who don't. I personally think that we're entering a phase of technological evolution where the human mind simply isn't able to predict and keep up with the long-term consequences.

It's a technological Blitzkrieg where by the time we realize one danger, the position we're in has been long overrun.

AI will exponentially compound on that.
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Hard to regulate is one thing, being weaponized is another.

The current media has been tampered it's not much different to propaganda machine.

The reporting on Israel - Palestinian war has shown that the media is just another tools of the government
 
Sky1981 said:
American drone has been hell firing terrorist right left center. What you gonna do about it? Muscle Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam is the muscle

I doubt they even ask the host nation for permission
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I'm pretty sure they don't ask, Mexico does have some AEW capabilities so they'd be within their rights to shoot them down if they can detect them, mind you Trump would use that as an excuse to invade them!
 
Beans said:
The democrats are the “conservative” party now, there is no liberal party.

But it’s time to start one.
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We need a new republican party that is old school for the non-Maga republicans and a new unapologetically liberal one, that is more social democratic than progressive.
 
NLunited said:
We need a new republican party that is old school for the non-Maga republicans and a new unapologetically liberal one, that is more social democratic than progressive.
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Those "old school Republican's" had the chance to put down MAGA once and for all 4 years ago and didn't, what makes you think 'new" ones would be any better?
 
What we actually need is a proper anti fascist party apparently. Not sure now is the time to choose who will be allowed in that tent or not. In some ways the only way to victory to unseat the powers at play right now is to basically make it a single issue voting platform.
 
Redplane said:
What we actually need is a proper anti fascist party apparently. Not sure now is the time to choose who will be allowed in that tent or not. In some ways the only way to victory to unseat the powers at play right now is to basically make it a single issue voting platform.
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It didn't exactly work all that well last time. That election came and went, America made its choice, and they chose this.
 
Laurencio said:
It didn't exactly work all that well last time. That election came and went, America made its choice, and they chose this.
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Fair enough - but they way over complicated the platform by not detaching themselves from what (unfortunately) have been successfully framed as far left policies. Americans clearly want stricter controls on things like immigration and think some of the social policies went a step too far. You and I may disagree on that but I basically consider those a. lost cause. What they dont like is weakening the economy, people losing jobs, selling out to big corporate interests, surrendering the expectation of privacy, weakening America s standing in the world, etc etc. Basically the 90% remaining of the Trump platform.
 
Red in STL said:
Those "old school Republican's" had the chance to put down MAGA once and for all 4 years ago and didn't, what makes you think 'new" ones would be any better?
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I‘m thinking pre-Reagan. You are absolutely right; those spineless feckers should have put Trump down.
 
Red in STL said:
Pre-Reagan - you're talking Ford, Nixon - not sure I'd want those kind of folks!
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Obviously not. You are being a bit narrow minded here. There are decent republicans, I know a few and they abhor Trump.

I‘m talking about old school republican values: freedom, the rule of law, limited government, fiscal pragmatism, free trade.
 
I really do think democracy has finished in the US. There’s not going to be anything like a functioning government come the next election in two years let alone 4 years. There’s no accountability so expect the midterms to be Russian like with all but deep blue states reporting 60%+ in Republican favour.
 
NLunited said:
Obviously not. You are being a bit narrow minded here. There are decent republicans, I know a few and they abhor Trump.

I‘m talking about old school republican values: freedom, the rule of law, limited government, fiscal pragmatism, free trade.
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Freedom - personal freedom or something else?
Rule of law - I would hope that applies to all parties TBH
Limited government - less regulation and lower taxes is what that means, Trump is showing us what that really means
Fiscal pragmatism - doesn't ever happen, GOP Presidents spend more and add to the national debt more per 4 year term (adjusted for inflation) than Democrat ones do
Free trade - has there ever been such a thing?
 
RFK Jr. tells staff he will 'investigate' childhood vaccine schedule, anti-depression drugs
Freshly confirmed by the U.S. Senate, Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. told a room packed with federal health workers on Tuesday that he plans to "investigate" whether the timing of childhood vaccinations and anti-depression medications are among several "possible factors" in the nation's problem with chronic diseases.
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Studies do not suggest vaccines or SSRIs are to blame for chronic illnesses, such as autism or obesity. Critics argue Kennedy's rhetoric could create more doubt and public mistrust of these medicines.
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rfk...childhood-vaccine-schedule/story?id=118931875
 
Red in STL said:
Freedom - personal freedom or something else?
Rule of law - I would hope that applies to all parties TBH
Limited government - less regulation and lower taxes is what that means, Trump is showing us what that really means
Fiscal pragmatism - doesn't ever happen, GOP Presidents spend more and add to the national debt more per 4 year term (adjusted for inflation) than Democrat ones do
Free trade - has there ever been such a thing?
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I‘m aware the current GOP is none of those things. Except for making the government smaller (destroying it).
 
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