The Trump Presidency - Part 2

moses said:
That Vance speech was a fecking outrage. If there isn't vociferous pushback then the whole continent can hang it's head in shame.
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What pushback when our security is fully dependent on the US? Like shooting yourself in the foot. EU bureaucrats have done feck all during 3 years of major war in europe whilst wasting away hundreds of billions on green energy and other unicorns when it should have been focusing on common debt issuance (like during Covid) and procurement of weapons within the block while we’re facing an existential threat from the east right now and not in 100 years. It’s easy to waive it away from Spain / Italy / France when the enemy is not right around the corner. Just last week at the summit in Brussels EU heads couldn’t move forward with necessary decisions when it comes to common defense funding because there’s no political willingness from the largest countries within the union and to be honest I’m quite happy the imbeciles were put in their place this week, hopefully it will serve them as a reality check that without the military power the EU will be nothing more than a pushover in geopolitics. If not then we’re doomed.
 
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Superden said:
Free Speech, free speech, free speech (unless of course its anti-israeli).
and dismissing the notion of disinformation in elections...wow.
that speech by Vance could have easily been written by the Kremlin. probably was,
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The irony is that Vance gets paid to speak.
 
Frosty said:
Speaking with unusual directness to some of the US' closest allies, he added: "And perhaps most concerningly, I look to our very dear friends, the United Kingdom, where the backslide away from conscience rights has placed the basic liberties of religious Britons, in particular, in the crosshairs."

Mr Vance criticised the country for the jailing of 51-year-old Adam Smith-Connor - who was imprisoned for breaching a safe zone around an abortion clinic in Bournemouth.

"After British law enforcement spotted him and demanded to know what he was praying for, Adam replied simply, it was on behalf of the unborn son he and his former girlfriend had aborted years before," Mr Vance said.

The conviction was not related to Smith-Connor's thoughts while he was in the safe zone.

He then went on to talk about "safe access zones" in Scotland - a 150m wide area outside abortion clinics to stop anti-abortion campaigners leafleting, holding vigils, or showing graphic images to people near the sites.

https://news.sky.com/story/jd-vance...urope-over-free-speech-and-democracy-13309240
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Vance is a misogynistic thundercnut. He’s made a big mistake by messing with us.
 
nimic said:
I'd like to say this picture will feature in my future history classes, but the truth is that there is a veritable gluttony of "this perfectly encapsulates the Trump years" pictures.
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I like your thinking though. It is optimistic and assumes Trump and friends won't completely destroy human civilisation over the next few years.
 
He has a point on the Romanian election. They literally cancelled an election on made-up terms because they didn't like the candidate that was winning with 30% or something of a swing. The PM of Romania then said that the "Russian misinformation" excuse was basically bullshit.

But this speech is generally part of a larger trend of the US wanting the EU move to the right -- particularly the Trump administration.

Europeans are weak in the EU sense but they do not like being told what do to so openly either. I expect a reaction behind closed doors. Whatever that looks like openly is anyone's guess. The continent is scarcely some utopia we can contrast with the US. It's better, but the margins (over time) seem to me to be declining. It has a very pivotal decision to make. Either go with this America (for a four year ride) and do damage which cannot be undone easily or else don't.

Vance is venture capital guy. His ideas are not his own as such but come from gurus (morons for the mot part -- politically) of silicon valley.

He's sort of right on the left and right being kept out of these kind of conversations, too. It's familiar if you follow the left and unfortunate that they can be lumped in with the right due to false dichotomies (one simply isn't bigoted and doesn't push bigotry and madness -- though economic disagreements are what get labelled mad --- whilst the other is always authoritarian and does not want to be tempered by things like "social democracy" or some variety of compromise with a middle.
 
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neverdie said:
He has a point on the Romanian election. They literally cancelled an election on made-up terms because they didn't like the candidate that was winning with 30% or something of a swing. The PM of Romania then said that the "Russian misinformation" excuse was basically bullshit.

But this speech is generally part of a larger trend of the US wanting the EU move to the right -- particularly the Trump administration.

Europeans are weak in the EU sense but they do not like being told what do to so openly either. I expect a reaction behind closed doors. Whatever that looks like openly is anyone's guess. The continent is scarcely some utopia we can contrast with the US. It's better, but the margins (over time) seem to me to be declining. It has a very pivotal decision to make. Either go with this America (for a four year ride) and do damage which cannot be undone easily or else don't.

Vance is venture capital guy. His ideas are not his own as such but come from gurus (morons for the mot part -- politically) of silicon valley.

He's sort of right on the left and right being kept out of these kind of conversations, too. It's familiar if you follow the left and unfortunate that they can be lumped in with the right due to false dichotomies (one simply isn't bigoted and doesn't push bigotry and madness -- though economic disagreements are what get labelled mad --- whilst the other is always authoritarian and does not want to be tempered by things like "social democracy" or some variety of compromise with a middle.
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Hmmm. His point about Romania wouldn't be hilarious if he didn't fail to accept the result of the 2020 election.
 
Rajma said:
It’s easy to waive it away from Spain / Italy / France when the enemy is not right around the corner.
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This is why Europe will never get it together on this level. European is a block of different peoples who have different beliefs, cultures, priorities, governments etcetc

It will never be able to agree and present a common front in these matters (and many more).
 
moses said:
Hmmm. His point about Romania wouldn't be hilarious if he didn't fail to accept the result of the 2020 election.
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Hypocrisy indeed but it's the right thing, i.e., two wrongs don't cancel each other out..
 
neverdie said:
Hypocrisy indeed but it's the right thing, i.e., two wrongs don't cancel each other out..
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You're obfuscating my point.

He's a lying hypocrite who twists reality to push an agenda.

If you want to discuss Romania, make a thread.
 
Taking a thread off topic
TheGame said:
Vance moaning at Europe suppressing free speech whilst his boss bans a news agency because he doesn’t like how they title some water is beyond parody. Fecking cnuts.
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It's really surreal supporting parties/clubs of which the boss blocks the press isn't it
 
Bepi said:
The pace of “news” and “executive orders” is unsustainable… if Roman empire blockbusters are their cultural reference, they will start “killing” each other for fun as soon as there is nothing new to order in the morning.
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That's the plan, though, isn't it? Just create an overload of issues so that the media and people can't give the right attention to everything.
 
Jerch said:
It's really surreal supporting parties/clubs of which the boss blocks the press isn't it
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Yeah because it’s the fecking same thing where someone is blocked (not permanently) for writing a false story which is explained as opposed to a long standing global news agency blocked because they didn’t pronounce an area of water to Trump’s liking. Get a grip of yourself.
 
moses said:
You're obfuscating my point.

He's a lying hypocrite who twists reality to push an agenda.

If you want to discuss Romania, make a thread.
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I'm not. He's a hypocrite who happens to make one or two good points amidst a largely pointless speech.

The Romanian thing was scandalous. It's not even been discussed here iirc. If you want to condemn 2020 you have to condemn that, too, or you (anyone), also becomes the hypocrite.
 
The AP has to be up there with the most highly regarded and respected news outlets there is?

I’m really rather worried about the short to medium term future of the US.
 
neverdie said:
I'm not. He's a hypocrite who happens to make one or two good points amidst a largely pointless speech.

The Romanian thing was scandalous. It's not even been discussed here iirc. If you want to condemn 2020 you have to condemn that, too, or you (anyone), also becomes the hypocrite.
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The ironic thing is was the US Statement Department who also raised concern about Russian interference in the Romanian election. Additionally the US Governmenr backed a rerun (obviously it was Biden not Trump). But it would be good if this hypocrisy is mentioned in news reports.
 
Rajma said:
What pushback when our security is fully dependent on the US? Like shooting yourself in the foot. EU bureaucrats have done feck all during 3 years of major war in europe whilst wasting away hundreds of billions on green energy and other unicorns when it should have been focusing on common debt issuance (like during Covid) and procurement of weapons within the block while we’re facing an existential threat from the east right now and not in 100 years. It’s easy to waive it away from Spain / Italy / France when the enemy is not right around the corner. Just last week at the summit in Brussels EU heads couldn’t move forward with necessary decisions when it comes to common defense funding because there’s no political willingness from the largest countries within the union and to be honest I’m quite happy the imbeciles were put in their place this week, hopefully it will serve them as a reality check that without the military power the EU will be nothing more than a pushover in geopolitics. If not then we’re doomed.
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Climate change is likely the greatest to our entire species (unless RW authoritarians and wannabe authoritarians try to blow everyone up). So spending on that is purely logical.
 
neverdie said:
I'm not. He's a hypocrite who happens to make one or two good points amidst a largely pointless speech.

The Romanian thing was scandalous. It's not even been discussed here iirc. If you want to condemn 2020 you have to condemn that, too, or you (anyone), also becomes the hypocrite.
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No, people are allowed to discuss one topic at a time. You don't have to condemn everything bad once you criticise something. That's a silliness that derails so many threads on here.

I would be only be hypocritical if I defended the Romanian situation.
 
That speech by JD Vance got the reception it deserves. Quite why he thinks he needs to lecture Europe when he clearly understands very little.
He criticised the UK on voting for Brexit while in the other breath criticised the EU.
 
I’ve just watched the first half of Vance’s speech. Meed a break from the bullshit so I’ll watch the rest later.

The irony of him scolding Europe for random instances of censorship the same week the White House banned the Associated press for still using the term the Gulf of Mexico is fecking insane.

This administration is insane, but worryingly, sane and driven behind the Trumps, Vance’s and Musks, I fear.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Climate change is likely the greatest to our entire species (unless RW authoritarians and wannabe authoritarians try to blow everyone up). So spending on that is purely logical.
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As of right now the greatest and existential danger to quite a few members of the EU is not a climate change thought and that’s the point, the EU is not acting and shifting priorities based on the changing environment because slow and weak EU bureaucrats in Brussels don’t feel this immediate threat and are dumb enough to not realize that the EU will fall like house of cards if one of its members gets attacked, what’s the point of the union which doesn’t care for its members?
 
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