Drumpf still headed for a collision with the Emoluments clause....
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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There are multiple, separate issues here.
It is absolutely right to question what kind of intelligence points to Russian interference in US elections in light of it coming from unnamed sources. US intelligence services have used similar tactic in the past to push a false narrative. This is not equal to supporting or defending Trump. Just because the media reports about Russian interference suits one agenda, does not mean they should should not ask for more detailed evidence. In a less serious sense, not doing so is being the same as loons believing alt-right nonsense.
Given CIA believes this, it is even more important that the exact nature of Russian interference is made public. The last thing a democracy needs is doubts over the validate of the election result, especially in a nation as divided as US. If there is proof of Russian hacking electoral voting machines to fudge the result, that has to be made public.
If the interference is limited to hacking of Democratic Party's emails then I don't get the level of outrage being shown. So Putin favored one candidate over the other and leaked information to further his interests. Nations normally do worse for their self-interest.
Trump's attitude towards Putin and Russia is obviously important. That's where the press needs to keep their focus on.
It is absolutely right to question what kind of intelligence points to Russian interference in US elections in light of it coming from unnamed sources. US intelligence services have used similar tactic in the past to push a false narrative. This is not equal to supporting or defending Trump. Just because the media reports about Russian interference suits one agenda, does not mean they should should not ask for more detailed evidence. In a less serious sense, not doing so is being the same as loons believing alt-right nonsense.
Given CIA believes this, it is even more important that the exact nature of Russian interference is made public. The last thing a democracy needs is doubts over the validate of the election result, especially in a nation as divided as US. If there is proof of Russian hacking electoral voting machines to fudge the result, that has to be made public.
If the interference is limited to hacking of Democratic Party's emails then I don't get the level of outrage being shown. So Putin favored one candidate over the other and leaked information to further his interests. Nations normally do worse for their self-interest.
Trump's attitude towards Putin and Russia is obviously important. That's where the press needs to keep their focus on.
It would have caused further diplomatic conflict but no war. And there is a reason for all the sanctions and strained relations. You do remember Russia took a chunk of a sovereign country and waved their flag above it, right?
Plus, looks like Rand Paul is very anti Bolton (the man, no idea how he feels about the team), so he may have more problems than I initially thought.
Psh, merely a response to NATO expansion!
Oh sure they took Crimea. What do you think we should have done? They are ensuring their own influence in their backyard.
I do not want us to be the World's policemen.
Who do you mean be by "we" here? If you are talking about NATO in general, I believe the response has been adequate. Whether it will remain so, is one of the most asked questions right now.
Yes, particularly given Tillerson has voiced annoyance at Russian sanctions that affected his business dealings.
Poor millionaires, denied the chance to become billionaires . Got to feel for them.
I meant, what More should we do. I am wary of what we are doing in Syria.
I am glad some of this coming out now.
Has Tillerson been officially announced yet?
It doesn't really need to be made public as it would reveal how it was collected and the Russians would simply adjust their communications to deny the US future collection.
What needs to happen has already happened to a degree, and that is the people's representatives (Congress) need to be shown evidence (classified info) so they can make an informed assessment as to what happened.
There are few historical precedents where the general public were presented with intelligence in order to advance a retaliatory policy position. This particular case is so big that it may be warranted but that is up in the air given that Obama only has 5 weeks left in office and he may not want to leave Trump with an embarrassing mess to clean up.
Trump is yet to nominate him officially. Hopes are that after seeing the backlash, he will actually go with someone less controversial.
Agreed with what most conservative commentators are saying today; the pro-Hillary camp/anti-Trump folks have been using
A stupid population
Russia
Media bias/coverage
etc etc as a bunch of excuses.
This is the fundamental source of the issue of the liberals IMO - they can't just say: right, we need to re-group, analyse, understand and come back stronger to annahilate them in the future. Instead they're becoming rather tedious, and perhaps even turning-off potential centrists/independents or casually undecides.
A stupid population
Russia
Media bias/coverage
etc etc as a bunch of excuses.
This is the fundamental source of the issue of the liberals IMO - they can't just say: right, we need to re-group, analyse, understand and come back stronger to annahilate them in the future. Instead they're becoming rather tedious, and perhaps even turning-off potential centrists/independents or casually undecides.
This has feck all to do with 'liberals'.
I like how you've not actually addressed the possibility that Russia might have done this, and have instead resorted to directing the blame elsewhere.
I think most liberals would have "moved on" if there wasn't strong hints that something very unsettling has happened here. The idea that they should just ignore this and move on is frankly, quite ridiculous. Nobody should ever turn a blind eye to corruption. The Trump campaigns attacks on Clinton was almost entirely based on the idea of corruption. Stones and glass houses.
Wait, didn't the Russian interference expose corruption in the Democratic primaries?
This has feck all to do with 'liberals'.
I like how you've not actually addressed the possibility that Russia might have done this, and have instead resorted to directing the blame elsewhere.
No evidence, no links, random timing - I still don't even get how he 'hacked' or 'swung' the election. Baffling.
Even Putin thinks it's outrageous as he's said so many times - people give him way too much credit than he deserves IMO (Brexit, unsettling of EU citizens against the EU generally, now the US election, etc)
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...putin-denies-russian-meddling-in-u-s-election
It's basically a mad conspiracy theory at this stage.
You mean apart from the, errrr...CIA? It's quite obvious...Trump may quite possibly pick a Secretary of State who actually has vested interests in seeing Russian sanctions lifted due to his business interests. Trump's platform (weakening NATO etc) directly benefits Putin. Wikileaks have been rumoured to have been in collusion with Russia for a while and they deliberately held back info on Trump, deeming it not interesting enough.
The CIA and FBI have enough information to be making statements.
I didn't realise Putin thinks the accusations are ridiculous though, I guess that settles it.
Exactly! So on top of the continuous lies, the sexist comments, the blatant racism and completely impossible promises, not releasing tax returns, conflicts of interest, feck me I give up I can't be arsed to list it all, there's pages and pages of shit the moron did and said and didn't do, we all know it. Anyway, on top of EVERYTHING ELSE! Now there is concrete proof of Russian meddling and extreme conflicts of interest in cabinet appointments and deals AND current embargos and sanctions against a foreign country! But despite all that, everything is kushty and all ok?
Can the Republicans on this forum please, just for one minute, stop and imagine this was all being done by a Democrat Candidate and the Democratic Party.
I ask the above again....... Also, I notice how nobody answered it the first time, just ignored it and just went down the usual biased media and attacking "liberals" routes. It's quite simple, if the moron elect had ran as a Democrat then all hell would be breaking loose about now, AND if there was the slightest suggestion that the FBI had interfered in the election, then the Russians AND the CIA were saying all this had happened, then how do you think the Republicans would be reacting now? It's laughable they are just dismissing all this and being so blasé and flippant about everything. Yet it's us with our heads in the sand
It's pathetic really.I think it's a combination of a power struggle at the top and the media doubling down on their bullshit agenda. The mainstream media will be gone soon anyway and once this hacking claim is inevitably accepted to be complete nonsense, it will simply speed up their demise.
The irony of a conservative moaning that liberals refuse to change their behaviour after an election result...This has feck all to do with 'liberals'.
I like how you've not actually addressed the possibility that Russia might have done this, and have instead resorted to directing the blame elsewhere.
I keep coming back to this article that reminded us and applied what Orwell once wrote in a new context: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/...apologists-cowardice-must-always-be-paid-for/
It serves no real purpose, and is way more hyperbolic than practical. But it is certainly how I feel watching some of the Republican congressmen in recent weeks, and will probably come back several times over the next few years. Their character will probably be tested more than anyone else's during this Presidency.
It serves no real purpose, and is way more hyperbolic than practical. But it is certainly how I feel watching some of the Republican congressmen in recent weeks, and will probably come back several times over the next few years. Their character will probably be tested more than anyone else's during this Presidency.
So the CIA, FBI and several high profile senators are "the mainstream media" now?
So what did Russia allegedly do to get Trump elected?
No, they are part of the power struggle.
We only know about the DNC / Wikileaks. If there is anything else, only people with clearance currently know.
Power struggle? Care to go into any more depth?
I don't think everyone in the CIA or FBI believes this hacking claim. I think it's come from those who are loyal to the Clintons and the media are running it partly because it suits their agenda and partly because some of them know their corruption is going to be exposed if Trump becomes president. I think there is a Clinton-Obama-Bush led cabal fighting against Trump. This is just my reading of the situation, we'll see soon if I'm right or wrong.
My money is on Skeletor.
If it's based on intelligence then they should all believe it. In fact the only people denying it at this point are Trump people who are not coincidentally the ones who have the most to lose if the allegations are true as they would completely delegitimize the election and frame him as a puppet of a foreign government.
I mean...you do realise Trump's preferred SoS appointment is someone who would benefits from Russian sanctions be eased because it ties into his own oil interests? It's not even particularly hidden or obscured...Trump is so unsubtle that this is quite blatant.
"Liverpool equalized late at Old Trafford, courtesy of a rare mistake by David de Gea". Hm, must be a Klopp-Gerrard-Ferguson conspiracy against Mou.
EDIT: Michael Hayden, 42 year career, 4-star general, head of NSA under Dems and Reps, head of CIA under Dems and Reps... pff, typical lackey.
I don't think it is based on intelligence, I think it's completely fabricated. Both sides have everything to lose whether it's true or false.
It's definitely not fabricated as 17 separate intelligence agencies are reporting it and there is sufficient circumstaincial evidence to support it even without the intelligence given the 11 or so countries where the Russians have undertaken similar actions.
There is a private market for intelligence you know? You stand to make a killing with all your insight.
Or at least a job with Flynn, he likes people that connect dots that may or may not be there: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-disruptive-career-of-trumps-national-security-adviser
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What are you basing this on?
Is this a real tweet? Because the last one turned out to be fake....
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