I think in survivor they did vote in secret, but then the host turned over their cards one by one to reveal how many votes each person had. But you could be thinking of something completely different of course!
Television The Traitors (BBC) | Series 3 now airing. If you watch episodes on the iPlayer that haven't aired on the BBC television, put discussion in spoilers
- Thread starter CassiusClaymore
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I think in survivor they did vote in secret, but then the host turned over their cards one by one to reveal how many votes each person had. But you could be thinking of something completely different of course!
Posted this on another forum earlier today (haven't copied whole post):
I've really enjoyed watching Wilfred in the game but he was really only in the process for himself. His whole we speach at the end wound me up too. Man is so manipulative.
" I kept you three in the game because I loved you all so much and thought you deserved to win. I'm so glad I've now lost and you can all share the pot. You all deserve it so much"
Yet 5 mins earlier he is throwing out ultimatums and all sorts if they don't keep him in.
And of course he has to say that as he is playing to win. What annoyed me more was that those weren't his reasons at all for keeping them in the game. He kept them in because they didn't suspect him and if kept him safe, that's the only reason.
Kieran on the other hand was willing to work with Wilfred to try and get them both to win. Yet Wilfred was working behind his back throughout that whole final day.
I don't think what Kieran did breaks the rules in anyway. Wilfred took the risk in recruiting when he didn't have to. He then threw the third traitor under the bus, its about time he got a bit of his own medicine.
Meryll by the way was the worst player throughout. Absolutely clueless and so naive. Lovely sweet girl but she just wasn't at the races at all.
Aaron is such a lovely guy and person, he's just one of those people you can't dislike. Really happy for him.
Hannah I think has been a good contestant and I've enjoyed watching her. She came to her senses at the end too just like Aaron and deserves it.
Kieran had his hand forced on him with recruit or die. I'm glad he did what he did though. Wilf fecked so many others over that he deserved it. So fair play to Kieran to just accept defeat and give the parting gift. I think it's a really fitting ending to be honest.
As for Wilfred you have to remember to detach the person from the game. I do think he did some cnuty things but as a traitor you've got to do what you've got to do to win. I'm surprised nobody was really mentioning the "round table analysis" and trying to work out alignment by voting behaviour. But I feel Wilfred was ahead of the curve with this and hench voted traitors to save himself. He played it smart but greed got the better of him. His decision to recruit Kieran was also a huge mistake which cost him. Not because of what Kieran did. But because 2 female traitors had already been found and thus everyone was looking at the men. So he really should have recruited a woman. With this said. I think Wilfred already knew this at the time of recruitment and simply recruited Kieran for that very reason. To be used as the bait to show they've caught the male traitor. In which case Wilfred was ultimately in a challenging position to win the game at that stage as you'd imagine the followers would possibly keep banishing until a male traitor was discovered.
I've really enjoyed watching Wilfred in the game but he was really only in the process for himself. His whole we speach at the end wound me up too. Man is so manipulative.
" I kept you three in the game because I loved you all so much and thought you deserved to win. I'm so glad I've now lost and you can all share the pot. You all deserve it so much"
Yet 5 mins earlier he is throwing out ultimatums and all sorts if they don't keep him in.
And of course he has to say that as he is playing to win. What annoyed me more was that those weren't his reasons at all for keeping them in the game. He kept them in because they didn't suspect him and if kept him safe, that's the only reason.
Kieran on the other hand was willing to work with Wilfred to try and get them both to win. Yet Wilfred was working behind his back throughout that whole final day.
I don't think what Kieran did breaks the rules in anyway. Wilfred took the risk in recruiting when he didn't have to. He then threw the third traitor under the bus, its about time he got a bit of his own medicine.
Meryll by the way was the worst player throughout. Absolutely clueless and so naive. Lovely sweet girl but she just wasn't at the races at all.
Aaron is such a lovely guy and person, he's just one of those people you can't dislike. Really happy for him.
Hannah I think has been a good contestant and I've enjoyed watching her. She came to her senses at the end too just like Aaron and deserves it.
Kieran had his hand forced on him with recruit or die. I'm glad he did what he did though. Wilf fecked so many others over that he deserved it. So fair play to Kieran to just accept defeat and give the parting gift. I think it's a really fitting ending to be honest.
As for Wilfred you have to remember to detach the person from the game. I do think he did some cnuty things but as a traitor you've got to do what you've got to do to win. I'm surprised nobody was really mentioning the "round table analysis" and trying to work out alignment by voting behaviour. But I feel Wilfred was ahead of the curve with this and hench voted traitors to save himself. He played it smart but greed got the better of him. His decision to recruit Kieran was also a huge mistake which cost him. Not because of what Kieran did. But because 2 female traitors had already been found and thus everyone was looking at the men. So he really should have recruited a woman. With this said. I think Wilfred already knew this at the time of recruitment and simply recruited Kieran for that very reason. To be used as the bait to show they've caught the male traitor. In which case Wilfred was ultimately in a challenging position to win the game at that stage as you'd imagine the followers would possibly keep banishing until a male traitor was discovered.
I tried Survivor Australia but couldn't get into it, poor man's Redneck Island.
I think the whole 'voting for a man' thing could have spooked him.
Still think Wilf got screwed over by someone bitter, and don't get why Kieran didn't just take him to one side and say "we both win or none do". That'd incentive Wilf to get Hannah on side and whitle down the numbers.
Didn't help that Kieran was a shockingly bad traitor and was immediately overly emotional. Probably harder that he got drafted in later.
Still think Wilf got screwed over by someone bitter, and don't get why Kieran didn't just take him to one side and say "we both win or none do". That'd incentive Wilf to get Hannah on side and whitle down the numbers.
Didn't help that Kieran was a shockingly bad traitor and was immediately overly emotional. Probably harder that he got drafted in later.
He screwed over all his team mates, that's just karma.
While I agree he played a relatively good game. It was also a very easy game too as he didn't defend any of his team mates at any stage.
Yet both elisha and Angela where defending his name early doors when he was under alot of scrutiny for his emotional outbursts at people leaving.
It's swings and roundabouts and karma caught up with him. He can have no complaints. There's a reason why he was given the option to choose to recruit or not. Because there is a risk of being exposed and that's what happened.
He recruited Kieran with the sole intention of turning on him to expose a male traitor and get the win. The intention was never for them both to win in Wilfs head. It was very calculated.
Fair play to Kieran. Top bloke and glad his actions lead to three deserving people getting some prize money.
Wilf played an excellent game but he was selfish throughout and that caught up with him. I feel no sympathy because when you play a ruthless game like that you have to be prepared for the tide turning on you as quickly as you've turned on others.
While I agree he played a relatively good game. It was also a very easy game too as he didn't defend any of his team mates at any stage.
Yet both elisha and Angela where defending his name early doors when he was under alot of scrutiny for his emotional outbursts at people leaving.
It's swings and roundabouts and karma caught up with him. He can have no complaints. There's a reason why he was given the option to choose to recruit or not. Because there is a risk of being exposed and that's what happened.
He recruited Kieran with the sole intention of turning on him to expose a male traitor and get the win. The intention was never for them both to win in Wilfs head. It was very calculated.
Fair play to Kieran. Top bloke and glad his actions lead to three deserving people getting some prize money.
Wilf played an excellent game but he was selfish throughout and that caught up with him. I feel no sympathy because when you play a ruthless game like that you have to be prepared for the tide turning on you as quickly as you've turned on others.
Agreed
I take your point and agree with bits, but it's called the traitors? Wilf did a phenomal job getting everyone on side and you're supposed to be awful. I dunno imagine if Alyssa did the same thing when she went? It is game breaking. End of the day he got to the stage where it was end game, with him and 3 others and no one suspected him, and another traitor blurted that out as they left. Doesn't seem right to me even if it was karma morally. It ain't about morals this game. 
Kieran could have tried to fight back in the game but he was sulking around from what the edit showed. Or threatened Will to get him to side with him.
He was forced to recruit dont forget so he had to choose someone, and recruiting someone to sack is a legit tactic in the game, not being voted out and bitterly outing him.
Like Damien said there needs to be an incentive in place not to do that.
I do think Wilf should have taken steps to prep for this though, cos he did say he was worried that would happen.
Kieran could have tried to fight back in the game but he was sulking around from what the edit showed. Or threatened Will to get him to side with him.
He was forced to recruit dont forget so he had to choose someone, and recruiting someone to sack is a legit tactic in the game, not being voted out and bitterly outing him.
Like Damien said there needs to be an incentive in place not to do that.
I do think Wilf should have taken steps to prep for this though, cos he did say he was worried that would happen.
They all were - it wasn’t a compliment getting to the final - it was an insult! (All the strong ones / people that might actually use some strategy voted out)
Yeah it's an odd one. Getting to the final as a faithful basically means you are the easiest to be manipulated.
I take your point and agree with bits, but it's called the traitors? Wilf did a phenomal job getting everyone on side and you're supposed to be awful. I dunno imagine if Alyssa did the same thing when she went? It is game breaking. End of the day he got to the stage where it was end game, with him and 3 others and no one suspected him, and another traitor blurted that out as they left. Doesn't seem right to me even if it was karma morally. It ain't about morals this game.
Kieran could have tried to fight back in the game but he was sulking around from what the edit showed. Or threatened Will to get him to side with him.
He was forced to recruit dont forget so he had to choose someone, and recruiting someone to sack is a legit tactic in the game, not being voted out and bitterly outing him.
Like Damien said there needs to be an incentive in place not to do that.
I do think Wilf should have taken steps to prep for this though, cos he did say he was worried that would happen.
I mean, Wilf had already basically done the same thing already to kick Alyssa out. He knew he was a goner and the reason he got people on side was finding her as a traitor by going all in when there were only minor suspicions before that she’d largely answered to the point the village accepted her. It was just as valid a tactic then as it was when Kieran outed Wilf. What you’re seeming bitterness can easily be flipped and painted as having pride in himself for not letting himself take the fall for Wilf like that, I know I’d fight back if he tried doing that to me. It’s entirely valid to do so.
I was amazed Wilf made it so far, I thought he was largely pretty terrible throughout, he just didn’t have the major error Amanda did and he hid behind the loudest person in there. A valid tactic, sure, but Hannah was clearly an idiot being so sure on him throughout.
I was amazed Wilf made it so far, I thought he was largely pretty terrible throughout, he just didn’t have the major error Amanda did and he hid behind the loudest person in there. A valid tactic, sure, but Hannah was clearly an idiot being so sure on him throughout.
But Kieran gains nothing except spiting Wilf? Wilf did it to remain in the game and out the bad traitor (as did Amanda). Kieran was out of the game and he basically said to everyone Wilf is the traitor too. Doing it in the course of the game for self preservation is in the spirit of the game, and is very different to 'I dont want this guy to win' after they have been voted out.
A better comparison would be if Alyssa was voted out and she simply said "watch out for Amanda and Wilf" and then walked out. Would have ruined it.
He didn't fight back though, he literally just took it and then had a swipe to give away the other traitor, fighting back would have been trying to get others onside and getting numbers, or saying to Wilf, if you turn on me im outing you, we both win or the faithfuls do.
From what the edits show he just kind of gave up.
I do think Wilf should have taken more measures to stop this though, personally think it was a little game breaking and reckon next season traitors should have incentives to stop that. Didn't ruin the final though, and it is defo karma for Will brilliant series!
A better comparison would be if Alyssa was voted out and she simply said "watch out for Amanda and Wilf" and then walked out. Would have ruined it.
He didn't fight back though, he literally just took it and then had a swipe to give away the other traitor, fighting back would have been trying to get others onside and getting numbers, or saying to Wilf, if you turn on me im outing you, we both win or the faithfuls do.
From what the edits show he just kind of gave up.
I do think Wilf should have taken more measures to stop this though, personally think it was a little game breaking and reckon next season traitors should have incentives to stop that. Didn't ruin the final though, and it is defo karma for Will
brilliant series!I take your point and agree with bits, but it's called the traitors? Wilf did a phenomal job getting everyone on side and you're supposed to be awful. I dunno imagine if Alyssa did the same thing when she went? It is game breaking. End of the day he got to the stage where it was end game, with him and 3 others and no one suspected him, and another traitor blurted that out as they left. Doesn't seem right to me even if it was karma morally. It ain't about morals this game.
Kieran could have tried to fight back in the game but he was sulking around from what the edit showed. Or threatened Will to get him to side with him.
He was forced to recruit dont forget so he had to choose someone, and recruiting someone to sack is a legit tactic in the game, not being voted out and bitterly outing him.
Like Damien said there needs to be an incentive in place not to do that.
I do think Wilf should have taken steps to prep for this though, cos he did say he was worried that would happen.
Aim of the game is to cast doubt on others really, and that's what Keiran did essentially. Even though because the stakes were so high and Will actually did succeed in setting him up, Will basically sealed his own fate. He never said I'm a traitor and so I know Will's one too, so until he actually got outed as a traitor, nothing was proven.
I feel part of your strategy has to be to keep people onside until they're unable to get back at you (I think Will betrayed Alyssa and Amanda after they had already cast their vote and had said their piece), or so they were actually unaware of your betrayal till they left.
For me, if traitors could turn on each other so brazenly without fear of repercussions, that is in fact game breaking.
I feel part of your strategy has to be to keep people onside until they're unable to get back at you (I think Will betrayed Alyssa and Amanda after they had already cast their vote and had said their piece), or so they were actually unaware of your betrayal till they left.
For me, if traitors could turn on each other so brazenly without fear of repercussions, that is in fact game breaking.
I think it was completely fair for Kieran to do what he did. The issue was that Wilf and the others played it poorly at the end, in that they made it too obvious to Kieran that he was the one who would be banished. If Wilf had played it better and made Kieran think he was gonna keep him in and vote for someone else. It would have limited Kieran’s ability to get revenge as he wouldn’t have voted for Wilf as a traitor and he wouldn’t have had all those barely cryptic barbs at Wilf at the round table. He may have been able to have a dig at the very end when he found out he was getting banished, but I doubt it would have been enough to out Wilf as a traitor.
Going for Fay over Hannah as his most trusted was certainly it. Can't believe he managed to talk Hannah around after that, and then I guess what Amanda did happened so soon after so he was able to divert the attention on to her. That's one thing he was good at - when he sensed the focus was turning to him he managed to get it onto someone else who, shock horror, turned out to be a Traitor.
There are some aspects of the game he was very good at like developing relationships with the faithful, being ruthless and jumping on mistakes. He was also the most guilty looking person I have ever seen, and it was mentioned once in the whole show.
I take your point and agree with bits, but it's called the traitors? Wilf did a phenomal job getting everyone on side and you're supposed to be awful. I dunno imagine if Alyssa did the same thing when she went? It is game breaking. End of the day he got to the stage where it was end game, with him and 3 others and no one suspected him, and another traitor blurted that out as they left. Doesn't seem right to me even if it was karma morally. It ain't about morals this game.
Kieran could have tried to fight back in the game but he was sulking around from what the edit showed. Or threatened Will to get him to side with him.
He was forced to recruit dont forget so he had to choose someone, and recruiting someone to sack is a legit tactic in the game, not being voted out and bitterly outing him.
Like Damien said there needs to be an incentive in place not to do that.
I do think Wilf should have taken steps to prep for this though, cos he did say he was worried that would happen.
Kieran couldn't have done anything because Wilf had already got in everyone else's ear and made their minds up for them. The fact that Kieran came in late meant the remaining players weren't completely trusting of him either so he had it all to do, which he knew. From his perspective if Wilf is prepared to throw him under the bus, it's only fair game for him to do the same.
Kieran made the right decision. Wilf behaved like a child throughout playing the 'I don't trust them' card when he was the one scheming. If you're going to be a prick, at least own it.
Kieran made the right decision. Wilf behaved like a child throughout playing the 'I don't trust them' card when he was the one scheming. If you're going to be a prick, at least own it.
But that's the game? Getting in everyone's ear to vote someone out is literally it. Not losing and throwing your toys out the pram, and like I mentioned there was an obvious option he could have taken to get Will onside.
I do get where you're coming from though, I'm not overly bothered as wanted Aaron to win and it was karma
suppose it gives a certain 'person management' element to the traitors to consider that I personally think is a little unfair but that' just my thought.It is the game but he didn't play it smart at the end, and that's also part of the game. If he was going to betray Kieran he had to do a better job than he did, because Kieran picked up on it straight away. If he'd managed to make it to the table without him suspecting, maybe you'd have a bit more of a point.But that's the game? Getting in everyone's ear to vote someone out is literally it. Not losing and throwing your toys out the pram, and like I mentioned there was an obvious option he could have taken to get Will onside.
I do get where you're coming from though, I'm not overly bothered as wanted Aaron to win and it was karma
The fact that he did such a bad job of concealing what he was going to do enabled Kieran to come up with a way of outing him. It was very clumsy.
I agree with that, he should have taken steps to prep for that. Still not convinced it's in the 'spirit' of the game, but is what it is. 
Tbf the guy was pretty much forced into his recruitment as the fall guy who would leave with nothing, that's probably not really part of the spirit of the game.I agree with that, he should have taken steps to prep for that. Still not convinced it's in the 'spirit' of the game, but is what it is.
I think someone pointed out that in Werewolf you win with your team even if dead so there is no real incentive to do that sort of thing. That's perhaps one of the tweaks they could make if they do a second series.
A couple of episodes in, very very good.
That person was very wise.
Wilf started off the day decently with the group talk with Hannah and Kieran talking about voting Aaron(?) then taking Kieran aside saying his name had been mentioned. Completely unravelled after that with Hannah not looking Kieran in the face so it was obvious Wilf had betrayed him.
Hard to say even in hindsight what would be best to do but maybe try and convince Aaron, Hannah and Meryl that Kieran is going to try and turn them against each other so to keep it under cover that they're going to vote him off until after they reveal their votes, and in the meantime just pretend to Kieran that they're all going to stick with voting off Aaron. Probably unfeasible and even riskier to do but it was just too obvious to Kieran that Wilf had openly turned the others against him.
Hard to say even in hindsight what would be best to do but maybe try and convince Aaron, Hannah and Meryl that Kieran is going to try and turn them against each other so to keep it under cover that they're going to vote him off until after they reveal their votes, and in the meantime just pretend to Kieran that they're all going to stick with voting off Aaron. Probably unfeasible and even riskier to do but it was just too obvious to Kieran that Wilf had openly turned the others against him.
I can put some threadmarks in here where each episode began so after watching you could read up to the next one to see the theories but on the whole I'd probably recommend not reading up even though the use of spoilers in this thread is great on the whole.
But yeah, it's a great show. You're in for a treat for the rest if you can remain unspoiled.
Was almost as good as the world cup.
I take your point and agree with bits, but it's called the traitors? Wilf did a phenomal job getting everyone on side and you're supposed to be awful. I dunno imagine if Alyssa did the same thing when she went? It is game breaking. End of the day he got to the stage where it was end game, with him and 3 others and no one suspected him, and another traitor blurted that out as they left. Doesn't seem right to me even if it was karma morally. It ain't about morals this game.
Kieran could have tried to fight back in the game but he was sulking around from what the edit showed. Or threatened Will to get him to side with him.
He was forced to recruit dont forget so he had to choose someone, and recruiting someone to sack is a legit tactic in the game, not being voted out and bitterly outing him.
Like Damien said there needs to be an incentive in place not to do that.
I do think Wilf should have taken steps to prep for this though, cos he did say he was worried that would happen.
what does this line even mean lol:
" Wilf did a phenomal job getting everyone on side and you're supposed to be awful"
Like you said in the opening paragraph, the game is called traitors. You're vastly overestimating how Wilf played too.
As mentioned earlier out of all the traitors he was the one that had the most heat throughout. He only survived the early stages due to his fellow traitors defending him.
Whereas for both Alyssa and Amanda it was Wilf that was instigating it and turning people on them.
I didn't think he was forced to recruit, I believe it was an option. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I think with Kieran in the end was that he just didn't have the energy to fight it and as mentioned by other players he was filled with guilt too. Upon witnessing Wilfs behaviour he didn't even want the money for himself anymore and that's why I think he was happy to go so that the others could win it.
But ultimately. It was still Wilf who recruited him and that's a risk he took. He could have not recruited (if ig was an option) or recruited another player but he didn't. Maybe someone gullible like Aaron for example.
And had he not recruited Kieran then I think Kieran would have cracked him eventually anyway.
" Wilf did a phenomal job getting everyone on side and you're supposed to be awful"
Like you said in the opening paragraph, the game is called traitors. You're vastly overestimating how Wilf played too.
As mentioned earlier out of all the traitors he was the one that had the most heat throughout. He only survived the early stages due to his fellow traitors defending him.
Whereas for both Alyssa and Amanda it was Wilf that was instigating it and turning people on them.
I didn't think he was forced to recruit, I believe it was an option. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I think with Kieran in the end was that he just didn't have the energy to fight it and as mentioned by other players he was filled with guilt too. Upon witnessing Wilfs behaviour he didn't even want the money for himself anymore and that's why I think he was happy to go so that the others could win it.
But ultimately. It was still Wilf who recruited him and that's a risk he took. He could have not recruited (if ig was an option) or recruited another player but he didn't. Maybe someone gullible like Aaron for example.
And had he not recruited Kieran then I think Kieran would have cracked him eventually anyway.
That's the game though. Wilf was forced to recruit someone and then he stabbed them in the back. To be fair I don't think Wilf initially wanted to stab him in the back, he told him when his name came up as a code red.
Im in the minority though, so am happy to be seen as wrong on this one.
Yes completely agree regarding traitors winning as a team, needs to be an incentive not to do that.
Im in the minority though, so am happy to be seen as wrong on this one.
Yes completely agree regarding traitors winning as a team, needs to be an incentive not to do that.
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Threadmarks added. The first six episodes were on page 1 then it exploded
That would be perfect mate, thanks. I had planned to avoid the thread all together until I'm fully caught up but this is much better thanks.
What a show. Easily one of the best ive seen in ages. Had me gripped throughout.
So are they allowed to collude as traitors to split the money if one goes out? If not then there could only ever be one traitor winner at the end becasue the table would have just banished until they found one. If they could agree agree to split 50/50 then they could have easily won. I’m glad the faithfuls won. They all seemed nice folk. In hindsight, [\spoiler]
in hindsight, wilf should have recruited Hannah. Think she would have handled it a lot better than keiran.
Also keiran definitely broke the game. Wilf brought it on himself, it was his to win but the guy couldn't help himself. Regardless of that, what keiran did isn't in the spirit of the game IMO.
Producers messed it up tbh, even though Wilf did seem to want to recruit.
Finished it. Great show and captured the werewolf psychology from caf games perfectly imo. Loved it all.
Nah ... She would've been a worse traitor than Kieran, she only needed to pretend for half a day and she couldn't even look him in the eye or hold a conversation - she was so obvious, such a genuine soul
Would anyone on here be tempted to apply if there was a second series?
I genuinely might.
After what happened to the last caf member who went on TV?
Definitely