The Title Race 2017/18 | Done and dusted.

Status
Not open for further replies.
K2K said:
Again, my statements are not based on City. But rather us.

We have shown over the last 4 years that our squad isn't a title winning one. We haven't even been in a proper challenge for any of those seasons. We havent even gotten past 80 points in any of them either.

We are a massively improved side making progress and are getting better. But a title winning one we are not. Not yet any way.

That isn't being negative. It's just being truthful. But patience is required and many simply don't have that.
Click to expand...

^^This^^
City have had an incredible start to the season, and its a bit of a shame to critisize United when we are actually having a great season ourselves so far.
Take City out of the equation, we'd be top of the table, 3 points ahead of Chelski, 4 points ahead of Arsenal, 5 points ahead of Spurs, and 6 points ahead of Liverpool.
We have scored more than anyone else and conceded less than anyone else, having a huge GD over both Arsenal & Liverpool.

Comfortably winning the Champions League group and advancing to the knockout stages.
 
jontheblue said:
Pep may have known for longer that he was coming to City and had a degree of influence over who was bought, but you are comparing someone who has huge experience of winning in this country with someone who has never lived here, let alone competed in the EPL - given the same squad, Jose should be able to make a better go of it than Pep when it's Pep's first stint in English football and of course, Jose should find it easier for players who aren't quite ideal to work in his systems than Pep will in his

Squadwise, United have thrown huge money at Pogba (who could fit into anyone's system and Neymar aside, is the world's most expensive player) and Lukaku who seems to suit the United system and cost a still not inconsiderable £75M, have one of if not the best GK in the world, young attacking talented forwards who are equal to their counterparts at City (according to many ppl on here), defenders who are massively superior to City's (no city defender would get into the current United team again according to many on here) - it's hardly a bad starting position for a manager is it !

It's not like City don't still have holes in the squad - very poor cover in central defence, a makeshift leftback in Delph and no cover for Fernandinho who nobody on here seems to rate and is somewhat aging for the incredibly demanding role he plays. I'm not saying we have problems, but I don't see how the squad differences are that great all things considered. Actually as it happens, United are hardly doing badly, it simply looks worse than it is because of our exceptional start
Click to expand...
I'm not comparing anything, I'm explaining why I think people bring up Pep's longer prep time
 
Charlie Foley said:
I'm not comparing anything, I'm explaining why I think people bring up Pep's longer prep time
Click to expand...

The post of yours that I quoted in mine is pasted in full below. If you are not comparing anything, then we speak different languages

I think this point is that while Pep and Mou have been at their respective clubs for the same amount of time, Pep has had much more time to lay groundwork before his arrival, as they've been preparing for it for a while. United on the other hand went through a complete shift when LVG came in, and then another when he left. So while the squads maybe weren't that far apart at the end of 2015-16 (separated only by goal difference, we picked up 4 points against them in the league, we won a cup and they didn't) when the new managers came in that summer, you had a guy who specialises in working with bananas being given a load of bananas that were bought with him in mind, whereas a guy who specialises in oranges was given a load of apples someone else bought.
 
jontheblue said:
The post of yours that I quoted in mine is pasted in full below. If you are not comparing anything, then we speak different languages

I think this point is that while Pep and Mou have been at their respective clubs for the same amount of time, Pep has had much more time to lay groundwork before his arrival, as they've been preparing for it for a while. United on the other hand went through a complete shift when LVG came in, and then another when he left. So while the squads maybe weren't that far apart at the end of 2015-16 (separated only by goal difference, we picked up 4 points against them in the league, we won a cup and they didn't) when the new managers came in that summer, you had a guy who specialises in working with bananas being given a load of bananas that were bought with him in mind, whereas a guy who specialises in oranges was given a load of apples someone else bought.
Click to expand...
Yeah thanks for that, I'm not familiar with my own posts so a reminder is helpful.

The first 6 words are a clue, and a qualification of everything that comes after. "I think this point is that "= not my own view/thoughts, trying to explain or clarify what someone else appears to be suggesting.
 
jontheblue said:
I'd say keep doing what you are doing as it's a great set of results for united so far by anyone's standards, then hope City's form doesn't continue to the end of the season plus, narrow the gap at least somewhat over the two derbies
Click to expand...
That's a great plan :D
 
TheOrgazoid said:
That's a great plan :D
Click to expand...

Well the question was asked ! :-)

However there was a serious side to my response too - I don't think anything should be changed. The system is working for united and the points are coming in. Pogba is back from injury. The best thing for us (City) would be for United to panic and try changing things when in any ordinary year, United would be top at the moment. If we keep up our points average (which is effectively impossible), I don't see how anyone could beat it, no matter what they change
 
TheOrgazoid said:
My question to you is this: if you were Jose, what would you do to bridge these gaps?
Click to expand...

Before the Pogba Injury we were definitely very close to City, the 5-10% figure was much more accurate back then (which is when I last checked). However, the gap is definitely bigger now and I don't think there is a massive reason other than injuries and drop of form. I think that we would be on City's tails had it not been for losing Pogba for two months and Mkhi going out of form at the same time.

Of course the manager didn't do things perfectly, I think he did not manage the Chelsea game very well because we were extremely open there unlike with Liverpool. It was also his responsibility to get the players ready for the huddersfield game, I think if the players are not putting the effort in then it is usually on the manager.

I don't know how Jose will bridge this gap, it is very difficult to equal a team like this, when they are so stacked with top players and have a top manager.
 
footballistic orgasm said:
And coached/used them to play in a completely different manner than they did before he arrived, that can't be ignored either.
This same United team will be playing a much better football too under Pep IMO
Click to expand...

Nonsense. City was playing great offensive football for years before Pep arrived.
 
8 points gap , 25 games left is not much at all but main problem( what i wrote before) is starting to be true; clubs just surrender when they play against them. They all park the bus without trying to play. Going for point and when city scores, game over.
Also refs protect them. You can't go hard on them, like english league should be. They hit the ground on every slight touch and get the foul. Classic guardiola stuff. "If they touch you, you go down."
 
Liverpool started season 90/91 with 12 wins and a draw from the first 13 games and collapsed after that. They finished the season 2nd with 8 losses. It's a funny old game. Nothing is over until it is mathematically over.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
8 points gap , 25 games left is not much at all but main problem( what i wrote before) is starting to be true; clubs just surrender when they play against them. They all park the bus without trying to play. Going for point and when city scores, game over.
Also refs protect them. You can't go hard on them, like english league should be. They hit the ground on every slight touch and get the foul. Classic guardiola stuff. "If they touch you, you go down."
Click to expand...

I can only assume you didn't see the last two away games against Leicester and Huddersfield? Both sides put in extremely spirited performances and only an idiot would say they surrendered. Before that City played Arsenal who also went out for the victory, did you think they parked the bus as well? With regards to referees I'm struggling to see this protection you reference, maybe you can give some examples?
 
jontheblue said:
Well the question was asked ! :-)

However there was a serious side to my response too - I don't think anything should be changed. The system is working for united and the points are coming in. Pogba is back from injury. The best thing for us (City) would be for United to panic and try changing things when in any ordinary year, United would be top at the moment. If we keep up our points average (which is effectively impossible), I don't see how anyone could beat it, no matter what they change
Click to expand...
Well I can't argue too much with that.

The one thing I hope for is that City are hitting near enough their 'top' form. That's one variable.

The other variable is whether we can hit ours (and what level our 'top' form will be). We certainly haven't hit ours, yet, consistently. I think that we saw glimmers of it against WHU on the opening day of the season.
 
breakout67 said:
Before the Pogba Injury we were definitely very close to City, the 5-10% figure was much more accurate back then (which is when I last checked). However, the gap is definitely bigger now and I don't think there is a massive reason other than injuries and drop of form. I think that we would be on City's tails had it not been for losing Pogba for two months and Mkhi going out of form at the same time.

Of course the manager didn't do things perfectly, I think he did not manage the Chelsea game very well because we were extremely open there unlike with Liverpool. It was also his responsibility to get the players ready for the huddersfield game, I think if the players are not putting the effort in then it is usually on the manager.

I don't know how Jose will bridge this gap, it is very difficult to equal a team like this, when they are so stacked with top players and have a top manager.
Click to expand...
Do you think that we will close the gap next season?
 
TheOrgazoid said:
Well I can't argue too much with that.

The one thing I hope for is that City are hitting near enough their 'top' form. That's one variable.

The other variable is whether we can hit ours (and what level our 'top' form will be). We certainly haven't hit ours, yet, consistently. I think that we saw glimmers of it against WHU on the opening day of the season.
Click to expand...

Actually in relative terms we aren't hammering teams, particularly goalswise, in the more recent games, the way we were in the earlier games. But we are grinding out results. Again only in relative terms to how we were winning earlier in the season. That's great, but I'd be uncomfortable if we keep having to do that consistently. We have a tough run coming up, especially being reliant on Kompany to deputise for Stones. I think this next month will be really telling for us, one way or another. If United maintain or improve form, they will surely be there to take our place if we don't do the same. It should make for a really exciting run up to Xmas
 
TheOrgazoid said:
Do you think that we will close the gap next season?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for United but as a City fan its incredibly encouraging how we have such a young team. City may only need to make a couple of purchases over the next summer transfer window, perhaps a defensive midfielder and replacements for Kompany/Ageuro (although I think he a few more years in him). I think City might be pretty good for a few years yet. Can United improve massively to bridge the gap without spending a fortune?
 
The only realistic chance to catch City is that they decide to focus on the Champions League at a certain point.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
Do you think that we will close the gap next season?
Click to expand...

I think there is a reasonable chance that we will close the gap this season but narrowly miss out on the title. Barcelona at their best lost and drew several games under him, so it depends on whether we can gain back our form.

I think there is a good chance that we will close the gap next season and push them all the way, because our manager was able to best Barcelona in the league.

I don't think there is any guarantee that we will win the title next season,, because City are a good team. But, I think if we spend correctly in the transfer market (which our manager does) then I have faith that we can.
 
Huge two games coming up.

We have Watford and Arsenal away. Two very tough games, and two games we can easily drop points in.

Whereas City have Southhampton and West Ham at home. So yeah, big difference there.

If we can win our two games and go into the derby with the gap the same as it is now, then it's going to be a massive game.
 
jontheblue said:
Actually in relative terms we aren't hammering teams, particularly goalswise, in the more recent games, the way we were in the earlier games. But we are grinding out results. Again only in relative terms to how we were winning earlier in the season. That's great, but I'd be uncomfortable if we keep having to do that consistently. We have a tough run coming up, especially being reliant on Kompany to deputise for Stones. I think this next month will be really telling for us, one way or another. If United maintain or improve form, they will surely be there to take our place if we don't do the same. It should make for a really exciting run up to Xmas
Click to expand...
I just realised that you're a City fan. The fact that you have 'blue' in your name should have given me something to think about...

Yeah, I agree with you. City's performance levels of battering teams has taken a slight dip in the recent matches. United are still just about grinding the results out, too.

I think that this Christmas period will dictate whether the title is already realistically yours by Jan or whether it will go to the wire. If we don't improve our record against the big teams - City and Arsenal have to be played twice yet - then we won't challenge.
 
el magico said:
I can only assume you didn't see the last two away games against Leicester and Huddersfield? Both sides put in extremely spirited performances and only an idiot would say they surrendered. Before that City played Arsenal who also went out for the victory, did you think they parked the bus as well? With regards to referees I'm struggling to see this protection you reference, maybe you can give some examples?
Click to expand...
Leicester and huddersfield ended game without single shot on target. I am not talking about spirit. They decided to stay back and defend whole game. At home, ffs.
Refs? You want examples? Last two penalties were soft as they can be. Many players would not even fell down, but their players did. And they got 2 penalties. Crucial penalties mind you.
Meh, i give up. I wish that we have refereeing like they have every game.
 
It'll be interesting to see what City do in the Christmas Period and January onwards if they're still in all cups. They'll have to rest KDB at some stage.

Unfortunately for us, we don't play them smack in the middle of those periods. I'm very confident they'll beat us when we play them. It's not even their goal scoring form it's the fact we shit ourselves when we're pressed and have for at least 5 years.
 
Trizy said:
It'll be interesting to see what City do in the Christmas Period and January onwards if they're still in all cups. They'll have to rest KDB at some stage.

Unfortunately for us, we don't play them smack in the middle of those periods. I'm very confident they'll beat us when we play them. It's not even their goal scoring form it's the fact we shit ourselves when we're pressed and have for at least 5 years.
Click to expand...

Gundogan and bernardo silva
 
Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
The only realistic chance to catch City is that they decide to focus on the Champions League at a certain point.
Click to expand...

Nothing is guaranteed. You can't account for possible injuries to key players at key times, loss of form, fatigue etc. They look like they're going to run away with it and I wouldn't be surprised if they did, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't.

They've cut things close more than a few times this season already and have had some luck on their side imo. The last minute goals etc. can't continue for the whole season.
 
el3mel said:
Nonsense. City was playing great offensive football for years before Pep arrived.
Click to expand...
So did you actually llok at the post i quoted or you just rushed to type this as a response ? I was responding about hiw using Silva and Debruyne in a different manner than they were previously used
 
Womp said:
Neither are on the level KDB is playing at for City this season. He's City's best and most influential player imo which is saying something given the talent in that squad.
Click to expand...

While KDB has been very good so far this season, i think a lot of people are really underrating the season David Silva's having so far
 
footballistic orgasm said:
While KDB has been very good so far this season, i think a lot of people are really underrating the season David Silva's having so far
Click to expand...

Ye Silva has been great, but he's been one of the best players in the prem for years now, so it's hardly surprising. Also as good as he is, I still think they'd miss KDB more if he was to go missing than Silva. KDB is involved in everything for them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.