The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

[GlastonSpur]

You can ‘imagine’ what you want. The reality is that the increased profits are what secured the loan and it is that which will be used to pay it back. Unless Spurs intend to sell their expensive stadium to fund their expensive stadium.

It’s strange he feels the need to discuss this in public mind. Almost as if he’s trying to force somebody’s hand a little. If he knew they would he could simply say they will spend significant sums.

The loan will be paid back from our vastly increased income (separate to any profits) - income that will rise even further next season.

And obviously what helped to secure the loan is that the money is being used to build a fixed, permanent asset worth getting on for 1 billion pounds. Or do you imagine that the loan would have been forthcoming if we'd wanted to use it for spending £500m on increased player and staff wages?

You seem to imagine that Spurs are in some dire financial strait-jacket - when in fact we're raking in money hand over fist and can easily afford to both fund loan repayments and invest in the squad.

As for Pochettino, he's hardly likely to have said "I think Daniel will listen to me" without already having had conversations with Levy and knowing for a fact that money will be made available.

 

[Mindhunter]

The loan will be paid back from our vastly increased income (separate to any profits) - income that will rise even further next season.

And obviously what helped to secure the loan is that the money is being used to build a fixed, permanent asset worth getting on for 1 billion pounds. Or do you imagine that the loan would have been forthcoming if we'd wanted to use it for spending £500m on increased player and staff wages?

You seem to imagine that Spurs are in some dire financial strait-jacket - when in fact we're raking in money hand over fist and can easily afford to both fund loan repayments and invest in the squad.

As for Pochettino, he's hardly likely to have said "I think Daniel will listen to me" without already having had conversations with Levy and knowing for a fact that money will be made available.

Saying that in public means, "You better listen to me, or I am off and the fans will know why".

 

[acnumber9]

My rules? You were the one that said the league is the true test. But now you back-track on that when it comes to Liverpool.

So you apply one set of rules to Spurs for measuring decline/progress, but another when it comes to other clubs ... and even this ignores the fact that basing your measurement on a single season is just foolish.

I agree that strengthening a team and squad regularly is important ... which is why we've signed (for example) Sanchez and Moura recently and today signed a new contract with Kyle Walker-Peters, which perhaps indicates a bigger squad role for him next season.

And this summer, as I've said, I think Spurs will spend a lot more than in many summer past.

Yeah, you’re the one who dismissed United’s Cup victories in the past couple of years. Have you that short a memory?

Were did I backtrack? I didn’t say they had or hadn’t. I said an argument could be made. As it stands they have regressed slightly in the league. That’s a tangible fact. Their may be mitigating circumstances for that. But in comparison to Spurs their performances outside of the league have eaten and shit all over what Spurs achieved in the group stage.

Neither have improved Spurs though. And that would be ignoring the fact Spurs have been much weaker at full back.

 

[acnumber9]

The loan will be paid back from our vastly increased income (separate to any profits) - income that will rise even further next season.

And obviously what helped to secure the loan is that the money is being used to build a fixed, permanent asset worth getting on for 1 billion pounds. Or do you imagine that the loan would have been forthcoming if we'd wanted to use it for spending £500m on increased player and staff wages?

You seem to imagine that Spurs are in some dire financial strait-jacket - when in fact we're raking in money hand over fist and can easily afford to both fund loan repayments and invest in the squad.

As for Pochettino, he's hardly likely to have said "I think Daniel will listen to me" without already having had conversations with Levy and knowing for a fact that money will be made available.

Income earmarked to pay back your debt.

No I don’t but what relevance does that have? It doesn’t help Spurs pay back their debt. The only way it could is by selling so why would Spurs want to do that. I’m not predicting financial doom for Spurs. I’m saying disposable income isn’t instantly being boosted by as much as you like to pretend.

If I had spoken to somebody and agreed money was available I would be more likely to say ‘Daniel has told me there is money available’ not I think he will listen to me.

 

[kouroux]

Lol at least admit it wasn't a typo .

I have been like that my entire life. Forgetting to type words has been with me since I learned to use a keyboard.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Income earmarked to pay back your debt.

No I don’t but what relevance does that have? It doesn’t help Spurs pay back their debt. The only way it could is by selling so why would Spurs want to do that. I’m not predicting financial doom for Spurs. I’m saying disposable income isn’t instantly being boosted by as much as you like to pretend.

If I had spoken to somebody and agreed money was available I would be more likely to say ‘Daniel has told me there is money available’ not I think he will listen to me.

Just watched his post match press conference and he also says 2 things that haven’t been reported anywhere.

He says “ we aren’t the kind of club that will invest crazy money” and also “try and win in a different way to which the other clubs are winning".

It actually makes me wonder what his "crazy ideas are".

 

[acnumber9]

Just watched his post match press conference and he also says 2 things that haven’t been reported anywhere.

He says “ we aren’t the kind of club that will invest crazy money” and also “try and win in a different way to which the other clubs are winning".

It actually makes me wonder what his "crazy ideas are".

Doesn’t sound like a guy convinced much more money is going to be available to me.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He has done an incredible job to establish Spurs as a top4 club really but that interview does sound like an ultimatum. Time for Spurs to elevate themselves to title contenders, they've a very strong base.

Yeah. He's done an excellent job. But the club need to spend now to reach the next level.

 

[Bastian]

Is he wanting 150m + whatever he can make from sales? If that's the case they could be spending some serious money. Would be a real coup for them if they get de Ligt who already has an understanding with Sanchez.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I do want Spurs to do well.
But as a club they need to be careful. They've been a very good side for a few years now; but ultimately have nothing to show for it. It seems as though they lack a bit of ambition, fans and players alike coming out and saying buzzwords like 'progression' and how they're punching above their weight. That's completely the wrong mindset in my opinion but it seems to surround the club completely.
Unless they're active and forceful in the transfer market I can see them losing a few players and dropping out of the top 4 next year. Making all this talk of 'progression' for nought.

That caution is prevalent in most football clubs that don't have the enormous resources that the really giant ones do, and have to tread more carefully. It's easy for us to call it a lack of ambition when United don't face such problems. They do need to spend to truly challenge for the biggest titles and take a step up, of course, so it's a risk worth taking.

Doesn’t sound like a guy convinced much more money is going to be available to me.

Yeah sounds like he knows the limitations. If that's the case, they won't challenge next year.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Yeah, you’re the one who dismissed United’s Cup victories in the past couple of years. Have you that short a memory?

Were did I backtrack? I didn’t say they had or hadn’t. I said an argument could be made. As it stands they have regressed slightly in the league. That’s a tangible fact. Their may be mitigating circumstances for that. But in comparison to Spurs their performances outside of the league have eaten and shit all over what Spurs achieved in the group stage.

Neither have improved Spurs though. And that would be ignoring the fact Spurs have been much weaker at full back.

You've change your tune yet again. First it was "the league is the only true test", then comes the caveats concerning Liverpool, and now you refer to United's cup wins.

Why mention United's cup wins if the "the league is the only true test"? And by the way, I haven't dismissed these as you claim.

 

[rm4eva]

As a Madrid fan, I'd love it if we picked up Eriksen to replace Modric. I wonder who the bookies think is going to be first to leave out of Kane, Eriksen and Alli.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Income earmarked to pay back your debt.

No I don’t but what relevance does that have? It doesn’t help Spurs pay back their debt. The only way it could is by selling so why would Spurs want to do that. I’m not predicting financial doom for Spurs. I’m saying disposable income isn’t instantly being boosted by as much as you like to pretend.

If I had spoken to somebody and agreed money was available I would be more likely to say ‘Daniel has told me there is money available’ not I think he will listen to me.

Yes, income, not the profits that you originally said were the loan-security. And now you admit that the stadium itself was a key factor in securing the loan, since the loan would not have been made to enable us - for example - to pay increased wages.

Pochettino is too canny to admit publicly that a lot more money will be made available, because he knows that would affect Levy's negotiating position and drives prices up ... so instead he refers to it more obliquely. I stand by my point that he would not have said "I think Daniel will listen" unless he already knew what the position is.

 

[Bastian]

As a Madrid fan, I'd love it if we picked up Eriksen to replace Modric. I wonder who the bookies think is going to be first to leave out of Kane, Eriksen and Alli.

Strikes me more as a Barca player. Not as good as Modric though. How immense he's been for you. Got him on the cheap too.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Income earmarked to pay back your debt.

No I don’t but what relevance does that have? It doesn’t help Spurs pay back their debt. The only way it could is by selling so why would Spurs want to do that. I’m not predicting financial doom for Spurs. I’m saying disposable income isn’t instantly being boosted by as much as you like to pretend.

If I had spoken to somebody and agreed money was available I would be more likely to say ‘Daniel has told me there is money available’ not I think he will listen to me.

Yes, income, not the profits that you originally said were the loan-security. And now you admit that the stadium itself was a key factor in securing the loan, since the loan would not have been made to enable us - for example - to pay increased wages.

And by the way, only some of our increased income will be ear-marked for debt repayments. There will be a lot left over for team investment.

Pochettino is too canny to admit publicly that a lot more money will be made available, because he knows that would affect Levy's negotiating position and drives prices up ... so instead he refers to it more obliquely. I stand by my point that he would not have said "I think Daniel will listen" unless he already knew what the position is​

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

As a Madrid fan, I'd love it if we picked up Eriksen to replace Modric. I wonder who the bookies think is going to be first to leave out of Kane, Eriksen and Alli.

He would be a bit wasted playing deeper to be honest, he isn't really a player in Modric's mould at all.

 

[rm4eva]

He would be a bit wasted playing deeper to be honest, he isn't really a player in Modric's mould at all.

He has very similar skill sets to Kroos and David Silva, both who succesfully transitioned to a midfield 3. Its about figuring out if Eriksen has the workrate required to play there.

 

[rm4eva]

Strikes me more as a Barca player. Not as good as Modric though. How immense he's been for you. Got him on the cheap too.

Modric has been amazing for us ... but this season you can tell that his legs are gone. We are desperate for a replacement. If you had to pick one, who would you sell out of Kane and Eriksen?

 

[Bastian]

Modric has been amazing for us ... but this season you can tell that his legs are gone. We are desperate for a replacement. If you had to pick one, who would you sell out of Kane and Eriksen?

Well, as I'm not a Spurs fan, they can sell whoever they want. But I do think Dembele could do a job in midfield for either Madrid or Barca.

I don't think there is a player out there who is a like-for-like replacement for Modric. He's been the best midfielder in the world IMV, immensely talented and with outstanding work rate.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

He has very similar skill sets to Kroos and David Silva, both who succesfully transitioned to a midfield 3. Its about figuring out if Eriksen has the workrate required to play there.

He's more similar to De Brunye, you want Eriksen in or around tha box, if it was a midfield 3 you would want him more advanced and not deeper.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Modric has been amazing for us ... but this season you can tell that his legs are gone. We are desperate for a replacement. If you had to pick one, who would you sell out of Kane and Eriksen?

lol I would pick Llorente .

 

[acnumber9]

You've change your tune yet again. First it was "the league is the only true test", then comes the caveats concerning Liverpool, and now you refer to United's cup wins.

Why mention United's cup wins if the "the league is the only true test"? And by the way, I haven't dismissed these as you claim.

No I haven’t. I’m pointing out arguments that could be made for Liverpool that can’t be made for Spurs. I’ve even specifically said they’ve regressed in the league.

I’m referring to Utd’s cup wins because you liked to belittle them and talk about the league when Spurs were above United. Now getting knocked out in the first knockout stage is evidence Spurs haven’t regressed at all.

 

[acnumber9]

Yes, income, not the profits that you originally said were the loan-security. And now you admit that the stadium itself was a key factor in securing the loan, since the loan would not have been made to enable us - for example - to pay increased wages.

Pochettino is too canny to admit publicly that a lot more money will be made available, because he knows that would affect Levy's negotiating position and drives prices up ... so instead he refers to it more obliquely. I stand by my point that he would not have said "I think Daniel will listen" unless he already knew what the position is.

The stadium itself is a small factor in securing the loan. Nobody gets a loan without being shown they can pay it back. Spurs will be paying it back with the increased income. That will increase outgoings which will impact profit. I don’t know why you keep bolding income. Income directly relates to profits.

Of course he is. Although you were saying he basically did admit it by saying he thinks Levy will agree. Don’t you think that clubs will be smart enough to know the Spurs have money if they’re seen to be spending it? Or will they be too bewitched by how canny Pochettino is being?

 

[acnumber9]

My rules? You were the one that said the league is the true test. But now you back-track on that when it comes to Liverpool.

So you apply one set of rules to Spurs for measuring decline/progress, but another when it comes to other clubs ... and even this ignores the fact that basing your measurement on a single season is just foolish.

I agree that strengthening a team and squad regularly is important ... which is why we've signed (for example) Sanchez and Moura recently and today signed a new contract with Kyle Walker-Peters, which perhaps indicates a bigger squad role for him next season.

And this summer, as I've said, I think Spurs will spend a lot more than in many summer past.

Cup wins depend a lot on the luck of the draw. The league table doesn't.

Yes, Spurs need to start winning some trophies, but it's clear to me - and I suspect most neutral observers - that Spurs were significantly better than United last season.

As for the rest, it's self-evident that winning a cup does depend a lot on the luck of the draw, whilst league position doesn't.

Your rules.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Your rules.

Is your quoting me supposed to imply that cup success doesn't depend even partly on the luck of the draw?

My rules are that end-of-season league table doesn't lie, that cup success depends quite a lot on the luck of the draw and that the league table position in any single season is not - unlike your silly rule - the only true test of progress or decline.

 

[acnumber9]

Is your quoting me supposed to imply that cup success doesn't depend even partly on the luck of the draw?

My rules are that end-of-season league table doesn't lie, that cup success depends quite a lot on the luck of the draw and that the league table position in any single season is not - unlike your silly rule - the only true test of progress or decline.

Indeed. And the league table shows Spurs have regressed. So why are you arguing that point?

 

[GlastonSpur]

The stadium itself is a small factor in securing the loan. Nobody gets a loan without being shown they can pay it back. Spurs will be paying it back with the increased income. That will increase outgoings which will impact profit. I don’t know why you keep bolding income. Income directly relates to profits.

Of course he is. Although you were saying he basically did admit it by saying he thinks Levy will agree. Don’t you think that clubs will be smart enough to know the Spurs have money if they’re seen to be spending it? Or will they be too bewitched by how canny Pochettino is being?

So what if loan repayments impact profits? We're one of the most profitable clubs in the Prem (if not the most profitable over the last few years) and have continued to make healthy profits all through the stadium design and construction process. Why this should suddenly become a problem for Spurs is something best known only to you.

Re. Pochettino .... if he were to say "Spurs have 150m to spend" and then we sign the first player for £50m, the club of the 2nd player we approach will know we still have £100m spare and will negotiate accordingly.

If however, clubs don't know that we have a lot of money to spend and we sign a player for £50m, the club of the next player we approach won't know whether we need to sell before buying more and won't know how much we have left in the budget .. and so will negotiate accordingly.

It's extremely naïve to believe that Pochettino would ever publicly confirm the existence of a large transfer budget.

His comments - "I think Daniel will listen" - are like what a manager says regarding incoming transfer speculation when they know that player X in the bag but not yet publicly announced: they say things like "I like this player a lot and I'm hopeful he'll come to us".

 

[GlastonSpur]

Indeed. And the league table shows Spurs have regressed. So why are you arguing that point?

No, because as I've said - several times in fact - you can't judge decline or progress on any one single season. You have to look at the trend over 2 or 3 seasons and also take other factors into account (e.g. performance in the CL and cup runs).

 

[acnumber9]

So what if loan repayments impact profits? We're one of the most profitable clubs in the Prem (if not the most profitable over the last few years) and have continued to make healthy profits all through the stadium design and construction process. Why this should suddenly become a problem for Spurs is something best known only to you.

Re. Pochettino .... if he were to say "Spurs have 150m to spend" and then we sign the first player for £50m, the club of the 2nd player we approach will know we still have £100m spare and will negotiate accordingly.

If however, clubs don't know that we have a lot of money to spend and we sign a player for £50m, the club of the next player we approach won't know whether we need to sell before buying more and won't know how much we have left in the budget .. and so will negotiate accordingly.

It's extremely naïve to believe that Pochettino would ever publicly confirm the existence of a large transfer budget.

His comments - "I think Daniel will listen" - are like what a manager says regarding incoming transfer speculation when they know that player X in the bag but not yet publicly announced: they say things like "I like this player a lot and I'm hopeful he'll come to us".

It’s like debating with a toddler with the memory capacity of a goldfish. If your outgoings decrease your profits it effects disposable income elsewhere. This isn’t a difficult conundrum.

But you’re saying that what he’s said means there will be money to spend. Or can that only be deduced by Spurs fans desperate to believe you’re going to spend more money?

 

[acnumber9]

No, because as I've said - several times in fact - you can't judge decline or progress on any one single season. You have to look at the trend over 2 or 3 seasons and also take other factors into account (e.g. performance in the CL and cup runs).

Well of course you can. Was it not obvious United had regressed when they finished 7th after winning the league? Or Chelsea this season? Beating Real Madrid in a one off game doesn’t make you better than the season before any less than West Brom beating United and Spurs made them better.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Well of course you can. Was it not obvious United had regressed when they finished 7th after winning the league? Or Chelsea this season? Beating Real Madrid in a one off game doesn’t make you better than the season before any less than West Brom beating United and Spurs made them better.

You're citing instances where there was a huge decline in a single season. Spurs have dropped one place in the league table, having gained one place the previous season and three places the season before that.

The two situations are not remotely comparable.

 

[GlastonSpur]

It’s like debating with a toddler with the memory capacity of a goldfish. If your outgoings decrease your profits it effects disposable income elsewhere. This isn’t a difficult conundrum.

But you’re saying that what he’s said means there will be money to spend. Or can that only be deduced by Spurs fans desperate to believe you’re going to spend more money?

It's only you saying that our profits will decline - not me. Our outgoings will increase, yes, but so has (and will) our income.

But you seem to want to ignore income and obsess about debt repayments.

 

[acnumber9]

It's only you saying that our profits will decline - not me. Our outgoings will increase, yes, but so has (and will) our income.

But you seem to want to ignore income and obsess about debt repayments.

Your loan is secured by advanced season ticket sales. You keep talking about how profits are going to increase but you aren’t considering that Spurs have a loan to pay. That impacts profit no matter how long you choose to ignore it.

 

[acnumber9]

You're citing instances where there was a huge decline in a single season. Spurs have dropped one place in the league table, having gained one place the previous season and three places the season before that.

The two situations are not remotely comparable.

Oh so it’s not about the timescale anymore? Now this is an actual example of backtracking.

 

[balaks]

Yeah. He's done an excellent job. But the club need to spend now to reach the next level.

Yep

 

[hellohello]

I do want Spurs to do well.
But as a club they need to be careful. They've been a very good side for a few years now; but ultimately have nothing to show for it. It seems as though they lack a bit of ambition, fans and players alike coming out and saying buzzwords like 'progression' and how they're punching above their weight. That's completely the wrong mindset in my opinion but it seems to surround the club completely.
Unless they're active and forceful in the transfer market I can see them losing a few players and dropping out of the top 4 next year. Making all this talk of 'progression' for nought.

Good post.

I would say that 'nothing to show for it' is a bit harsh, yes I know we haven't won trophies, but if a club improve, get into CL, and finish high in the league it's not nothing. No one would say Iceland did nothing last Euros. Ultimately all teams want to win things, and improve, and although Spurs haven't won they have continually been there or thereabouts regardless of the financial disparity (I know people are bored of this argument). This is why I can defend the buzzwords like progress etc., but like Poch and many say, the next step is to start winning things, and I think it's possible.

You can see players leaving and dropping out of the top 4, I don't see that this summer, and next season I'd say we are still likely to finish top 4. However, what I will say is that beyond next season many many players need a new contract, so if we can't agree terms with a number of key players and also buy the right players then beyond next season it could get tricky. Keeping Poch and the squad happy AND add quality to it will be imperative, and not easy to do with the finances in place. Big season ahead, more so on the side of signing the key players than anything else.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Can we add another poll 'who among these two @GlastonSpur or @acnumber9 will break their keyboard first' ?

 

[FootyGirl88]

Can we add another poll 'who among these two @GlastonSpur or @acnumber9 will break their keyboard first' ?

 

[acnumber9]

Can we add another poll 'who among these two @GlastonSpur or @acnumber9 will break their keyboard first' ?

It’s a touch screen. I’ll be grand.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Oh so it’s not about the timescale anymore? Now this is an actual example of backtracking.

No, it's about there being exceptions to most general rules ... and you have picked two extreme examples of huge drops in league position in a single season, neither of which are remotely comparable to Spurs having finished 3rd, 2nd and then 3rd again in the last 3 seasons.

I'm done talking with you about this, as yours is a narrow accountants view of football, whereas most common sense fans would accept that decline or progression can - extreme examples aside - only really be properly measured over more than just a single season.

What finishing 3rd, 2nd and then 3rd shows is consistency - top 3 consistency. If you refuse to see this then too bad.