I hardly think the banks would have shelled out £500m simply on the strength of this. Do the maths, baby, do the maths.The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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I hardly think the banks would have shelled out £500m simply on the strength of this. Do the maths, baby, do the maths.Well of course they are. Your current profit levels wouldn’t cover your repayments. From Spurs own site:
“The loan is secured against the new stadium and related commercial and match day revenues.”
Really? The loans were taken out in the name of THFC PLC, owned but investment group ENIC who is majority owned by multi-billionaire Joe Lewis. I very much doubt advanced season ticket sales came into the equation. It's not quite like going to your local TSB and being asked for proof of employment
.What exactly are the monthly repayment amounts?
£525m over 5 years? That depends on the interest I suppose. What’s Tottenham’s yearly profit?
It’s funny that Tottenham themselves seem to think it will. You think banks forked out over £500m without any idea how the money would be repaid? I hope that sand is keeping your head warm.Really? The loans were taken out in the name of THFC PLC, owned but investment group ENIC who is majority owned by multi-billionaire Joe Lewis. I very much doubt advanced season ticket sales came into the equation. It's not quite like going to your local TSB and being asked for proof of employment
Lol your talking about ticket sales that havent even happened.... that was my point. It would be a projection of what the club would hope to make on all fronts match day, commercial and TV and other avenues not just increased match day capacity. We will have boosts in all other areas, why are you just saying ticket sales?
Our revenue last season was £305M, with massive gains in the commercial side of the club.
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I was waiting on you......
Been bit busy of late.
Not busy enough to forget my only correct prediction this season, though!
gz with second
I thought we would catch you based on the performances for a while, but wasn't to be.
Not just me. Tottenham themselves. I’m referring to the added income Spurs fans keep talking about in relation to their new stadium. Your revenue may be increasing but so are expenditures.
gz with second
I thought we would catch you based on the performances for a while, but wasn't to be.
Not that finishing second is anything to write home about, but thanks anyway.
Of course but the actual margins are not known, we have had a negative or small net spend for years, there is money in the kitty.
Ha fair play you deserve it, Jose pulls it out, oh er, when it matters I will say that for him. Hope you get the Cup too.
I guess, It's not 1st, but it's also not third, fourth, fifth or sixth.
I thought they had a good season considering lots of people predicted they would be out the top four.
But there’s also no guarantee they would have continued their 16/17 home form into this season. Football is strange and it never works like that. Some times teams have a great home record and then the following season they have a great away record.
There’s no guarantee you would have got the 17 wins and 2 draws this season. Teams would have worked out a plan to deal with you at home.
But there’s also no guarantee they would have continued their 16/17 home form into this season. Football is strange and it never works like that. Some times teams have a great home record and then the following season they have a great away record.
There’s no guarantee you would have got the 17 wins and 2 draws this season. Teams would have worked out a plan to deal with you at home.
First you say "our loan is secured by advanced season ticket sales".
Now you extend it to take in the new stadium and all income related it .... which, I can tell you, covers a hell of a lot more than just advance season ticket sales.
Do make your mind up ...
Do you mean to say that you don't know? Then how come you'd already stated that "current profit levels wouldn’t cover your repayments"?
I'm afraid that you simply don't know what you're talking about, including:
* Assuming that loan repayments have to be covered by profits (including not apparently knowing that interest payments are tax deductible).
* Assuming that Spurs intend to pay off £500m odd in debt in just 5 years without taking out further loans or setting up bond schemes: total club debt repayments can be refinanced in a variety of ways.
* Not knowing what Spurs likely annual income will be in a year from now (hint: think of a figure beginning with '4') .
... and much more besides
Well that quote comes from Tottenham’s own statement about the loan. Apologies for taking the clubs word for it and not going by what you think is going to happen.
Do think before you hit reply.
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I don’t know the exact figure. Is it £525m over five years?
Interest is tax deductible to an extent. It doesn’t cover the entirety of the interest which is only part of Tottenham’s increased expenditure though. Perhaps you can explain how having to repay a loan won’t affect a business’ profit margin?
I’m assuming nothing. Spurs can choose to do that. Of course extending the loan or refinancing it simply adds to outgoings over a longer period.
Your annual income may increase. That’s super stuff. Again it ignores that outgoings are increasing substantially too.
This what the club say: "The loan is secured against the new stadium and related commercial and match day revenues".
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new...uncement-new-stadium-scheme-financing-310517/
Got it now? Or do you wish to keep bleating on about advance season ticket sales?
I read it against the new stadiums commercial opportunities available to the club based on the new stadium, not existing
I don't need to explain "how having to repay a loan won’t affect a business’ profit margin" ... because I have never said otherwise: it's an Aunt Sally entirely of your own making.
The facts are these:
* Spurs have made a profit of £149m - after interest and tax - across the last four published sets of annual accounts. This includes much of period during which we've been spending on the new stadium and new training centre.
* Our income rose by 46% in the last of those accounts compared to the previous year.
By the time the next accounts are published our income will have risen substantially again. And by the time we reach the end of next season our income will likely breach the £400m barrier ... and we have a substantially lower wage bill than at least 5 other clubs in the Prem.
And yet, according to you, Spurs will struggle to both repay debts and invest in the team
How many games are they likely to play away before the stadium is ready?
Please, it's tough to read the back and forth, please tell me if United are doing better than Spurs trend wise?
Yes, that's what it says. And so ...?
Considering your resources that’s a question you really should worry about, if u have to ask it. You are arguably the biggest club in the world. You should be more worried about why United have let City get to where they are, it’s not all about City’s vulgar cash resources, the answers will be found much closer to home. City won’t be caught, IMO, in the next 2 years. Even without further investment which will come, they will improve simply by the players they currently have developing further. Ederson, Stones, Mendy, Sane, Stirling, Jesus will all be bettter players next year.
This is a big problem, but they try and get around this by promoting from within, Winks was looking ok in that midfield area for a young kid until his injury. He certainly didnt look out of place vs Madrid, they have the young Walker Peters coming through, they have two very young CB's in Foyth and Sanchez.
As for buying players what do they need?
A serious contender as backup for Kane, Llorente is an alright stop gap option but is not getting any younger. They need to be using him in rotation with an academy player when Kane isnt playing to get the kid game time. Or look at a younger player who doesnt mind biding his time for first team opportunities. The problem for Spurs is Kane is just too good and during his purple patches of form looked arguably the best out and out striker playing the game. Their offensive options other than Lamela are all good, Eriksen, Alli, Son, all had good seasons. The small amount of play from Moura I have seen he looked lively, maybe move Lamela on and bring in a player with that X factor.
I think their midfield is just lacking a little creative depth, Dier, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, Wanyama, id ditch Sissoko and look to promote or bring in a creative style midfielder. They have the DM role covered with Wanyama and Dier.
The defence will see an exit of Alderweireld and Rose, but assuming that young FB they have Walker Peters will step straight in for Rose and Sanchez has already been playing instead of Alderweireld. Aurier had a woeful first season, every time I seen him he was getting carded or giving away a penalty in the box. Probably need another CB or two unless they promote Foyth, going into a season competing on 4 fronts with Vertonghen, Sanchez, Foyth and Dier, who plays midfield mostly, seems very light to me.
In the same way that Rose & Alli were guaranteed to be better this year? The same was said about Martial and Rashford too. I do agree that City will dominate the league for the next few seasons. But to suggest 6 of their first team will all improve next year is daft. That never happens.
In regards to whatever trend you're speaking to though, there's none you'll find that will see Spurs placed above United since 1982. It's a great thing that's being built in North London but to suggest that United are in any way more concerned with Spurs than they are with City is daft.
Yes I know. Which I specifically said in the post you quoted. Other news sources have said advanced season ticket sales. What the hell do you think match day revenues are? You can so aggressive when Spurs aren’t being bowed before.
Why do you keep talking about income and dismissing profits like they are an irrelevance. Yes your income may increase. Super. What is less super is that as a result so will your expenditures. If Spurs wouldn’t spend big when making a comfortable profit every year then the chances of that increasing substantially aren’t that great.I don't need to explain "how having to repay a loan won’t affect a business’ profit margin" ... because I have never said otherwise: it's an Aunt Sally entirely of your own making.
The facts are these:
* Spurs have made a profit of £149m - after interest and tax - across the last four published sets of annual accounts. This includes much of period during which we've been spending on the new stadium and new training centre.
* Our income rose by 46% in the last of those accounts compared to the previous year.
By the time the next accounts are published our income will have risen substantially again. And by the time we reach the end of next season our income will likely breach the £400m barrier ... and we have a substantially lower wage bill than at least 5 other clubs in the Prem.
And yet, according to you, Spurs will struggle to both repay debts and invest in the team
That profit is really impressive but it’s been gained by not investing hugely in the squad.
Your income rose substantially in large thanks to a television deal that isn’t being repeated. It was also before you have to start repaying your significant debt.
I’m not going to look for the posts because I’m busy but I’m certain you were blithering on about United’s debt. I’m sure it wasn’t being sold in this rosy fashion by you anyway. I’m done, good luck with Spurs massive spending spree.
I fail to see the logic being expressed by people on here that Poch’s comments allow Spurs to have a stronger negotiating position. Unless people expect Spurs to be negotiating all their deals simultaneously and will close at the same time, clubs will be well aware what they can spend. Plus, we all know now you said you need to invest for your manager to stay - if I was negotiating I’d just say, “cough up then”. The players Spurs will want to buy won’t need to be sold by their respective clubs. They will drive a hard bargain.
I think it was much more an ultimatum than some grand negotiating tactic. Hell of a bit of spin though.
I think it was much more an ultimatum than some grand negotiating tactic. Hell of a bit of spin though.
I'm surprised that Poch's alleged request for a doubling of his salary as part of his new contract hasn't garnered more attention. Surely there's no way Levy can countenance that without risking some dissent within the squad?
I can’t help but think that Tottenham’s FA cup semi final loss to us broke a few people within spurs ranks.
Pochettino wants more money for himself and more spending power for his side (the gamble he was talking about?), and has clearly briefed a few press men to give himself a stronger bargaining position - or at least a rationale for leaving spurs.
Pochettino wants more money for himself and more spending power for his side (the gamble he was talking about?), and has clearly briefed a few press men to give himself a stronger bargaining position - or at least a rationale for leaving spurs.
If Levy backs Poch and spurs splash some cash, they’ll be there or thereabouts for 3rd again next season.
I'm not dismissing profits ... in fact I've pointed out the huge profit we've made during the period covered by the last 4 sets of published annual accounts.
What you don't seem to get is that from next season onwards the amount of club-generated money that Spurs will need divert into construction costs will diminish - because the lion's share of total planned construction (the stadium) will have been finished. Over the last few years Spurs have diverted hundreds of millions of club-generated money into such construction.
What you also don't seem to get is that our income from the new stadium will rise substantially far beyond the increase in TV money that has already happened.
Couple these two factors with CL income for a 3rd season running (CL income that we've not previously had for the most part) and it's not difficult to see how Spurs - even allowing for debt repayments - will have more spare money to invest in the squad than previously.
But let's see what happens this summer. I'm confident that my prediction of a major increase in squad investment compared to previous years will happen.
Spurs will either have to stump up the £ or this will be the start of their squad getting broke up
Sanchez signed new contract today, extending it until 2024
Looks like Rose now wants to stay after all:
"I fancy myself against anybody in the league.”
“Pre-season I will come back and work hard to nail that number one spot."
"I fancy myself against anybody in the league.”
“Pre-season I will come back and work hard to nail that number one spot."
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