There was never a fixed top 4 though, was there? First it was Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, then Spurs for a year, then City for a longer period. It was always dynamic. Spurs have been thereabouts since about 2006.
The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned
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You wilfully ignore the point: twice in the last 3 seasons has more relevance to today than 4 in the last 6, simply because it's closer in time to where both clubs are now.
I'm done engaging further with you about this obvious principle. If you won't admit it then you won't admit it. Over and out on this.
The point is that the volatility of the top 4 composition has been increasing.
I still have £100 on Spurs for the league. Bit disappointed they haven't really managed to threaten yet. They have everything in place to do well so being 7 points behind Chelsea is quite underwhelming
The last two seasons have more revelance than 3 then. In those seasons both teams have qualified for the Champions League once and United won a cup. In the last two and half seasons there's a point between the two clubs. In that time Utd have been shite and Spurs have been 'great'.
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Yep what gets overlooked here is that the last three seasons were actually a dark period in United's Premier League history while for Spurs it has been their best era.
If you close the budget gap, sure, but why do you think that will happen? UCL money?
The stadium will generate somewhere in the region of an extra £40m a year plus events there, it remains to be seen what we will earn from the NFL but we aren't catering for that for nothing. Stadium naming rights will generate more income and if we can get CL as well that would be a welcome bonus.
Will that affect you on short term though? I have no idea if you have payed for that (and how will you pay), but remember that Arsenal had economic troubles for a few years when they built the stadium.
Spurs finishing above United sides who were non-entities in the league is meaningless. What makes you proud of that? It's tallest dwarf syndrome. Even last season the prize of CL football was ultimately meaningless because you completely embarrassed yourself in the competition. It's just all so painfully pointless. If that achievement was a colour it would be beigey-grey. If it was a car it would be a used Ford Mondeo with no wheels. It's like contracting Herpes instead of AIDS. It could've been worse but you still lose.
Last season United had a more successful season than anything Spurs have managed in 20 years. Actual tangible success for the history books. We still sacked our manager though because merely having a better season than anything Spurs have done in 20 years is not seen as totally acceptable.
But hey maybe we should be camped out on a Chelsea forum reminding them that we finished above them. I'm sure they'll be devastated.
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This is a good thoughtful post, in a thread that's mostly been filled with spiteful nonsense.
That said I'd be surprised to see Mourinho fired after 1 season. I know there's a lot of pressure to get that CL spot (as some rumoured sponsor money drops quite a lot if you miss CL 2 years in a row), but I think given his credentials United look like they've bought into what he's trying to do so far.
Do most United supporters also believe Mourinho would be fired if he failed to make top 4 regardless of circumstances?
Early injuries to every one of our key players (Lloris, Kane, Dembele, Alderweireld, etc.) sort of derailed the beinning of the season and that said being only 7 points behind is decent considering all that.
I'm more or less hoping to kick on from here. Injuries aside we should be gunning full force for the league now. Poch has never shown much care for the cups so I'd expect basically a second team to try and play as far as they can through that and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he mugs off the Europa League again and we do the same for that as well.
Agreed. I think the improved style of play, performances and the happiness of supporters buys Jose another year at least.
If we could win Europa League then obviously where we finish in the league becomes less relevant.
True, but just how hard do you think you're actually going to try in the Europa League?
So long as a top 4 spot/title is in reach I'd expect Mourinho to do exactly as Poch does as in playing a heavily rotated side in that competition. Not to mention Mourinho is on record with having a strong disdain for that competition.
I can't speak for Jose, but for me personally, I want to win that and I'd like it more than finishing with a top 4 league position unless we're challenging for the title, which is possible but seems unlikely. What I will say is that I think Jose seems to be taking it fairly seriously this year considering the teams he has fielded in the competition and his reaction to our pathetic performance at Fenerbahce.
No, last 3 seasons has no relevance to today, even last season has no relevance as ManUtd changed manager and signed some top class players. If last season had relevance then Liverpool and Chelsea wouldn't have occupied first 2 position or Leicester wouldn't be fighting in midtable.
Lot of things have changed in top 6 teams and Leicester so even last season has no relevance to this season. You can't just pick the number of seasons that suits you. Also if last season has any relevance then ManUtd won the cup and playing in Europa, Spurs have won nothing and still playing in Europa.
To summarise your view then, the recent and/or immediate past has no impact on to the present-day.
So the composition of Spurs' squad last season has no relevance to this season, even tho' the squad has not changed much. And the managerial continuity at Spurs, as carried over from last season, has no relevance to this season. And the fact that Mourinho was a whining disaster for Chelski last season, but has since been sacked, has no relevance to Chelski this season? And the fact that last season was not a full season in charge for Klopp at Liverpool, whereas this one will be, has no relevance to Liverpool this season?
I could continue, but it's not worth it since your notion of a total disconnect between the recent past and the present is such obvious bollocks.
Composition of Spurs? It has no relevance to the point in hand as the rest of the league didn't stand still. They all made their moves to improve which they did not didn't will be known at the end of the season.
Last season has some relevance to Spurs and Liverpool though as they had more time to implement their ideas (also Klopp improving their midfield, defense and attack with new signings which Spurs failed to do). But,
Jose getting sack last season has no relevance to Chelsea this season. Conte has new ideas and he has implemented it well.
Whatever you said is same for Leicester minus Kante but the season is not same for Leicester. It's a brand new season and they are in midtable.
Not even to City as they have new manager who plays in completely different way.
Not to ManUtd as they changed the manager and improved the team by signing class players.
It's laughable how you go on and on about ManUtd recent past when it has nothing to do with Jose's team as we had 2 different managers in last 3 years. This year is new start with better midfield, striker and also defense. Off course he needs time to completely change the team but we are getting their slowly.
You just can't pick and choose what competition and what year the trend starts.
The continuity in both squad composition, direction, and manager most certainly do apply and should be taken into account to Spurs. Just as the disruption and transformation at United between last season, and the early forming period at United for Mourinho as contrasted to the recent run should be accounted for. Football can both turn on a dime, or be a steady progression, it's the beauty of footie. In other words, you two are both right and wrong. So, @GlastonSpur, a more enjoyable endeavour for all of us. What's your prediction for top four, and the title? Genuinely interested - not a WUM. Right now mine is:
1) Chelski
2) Pool
3) Spurs
4) United
You obviously seem to think there is some contradiction.
However, the key phrase is "not a reliable guide". That doesn't mean it's not a guide, it means don't rely on it.
The desperation of some United supporters on here to deny any meaning from the last few seasons is astounding to behold. Thus, apparently, there has been no downward trend of decline for United, it's all nonsense and the recent past has no bearing on the present.
My head hurts from reading the last few pages of this thread - yet again.
Wel there clearly is. Or you wouldn't be whimpering on about the recent past for Spurs and how it's a trend of our decline. When recent past looked better for United you sang a different tune.
Nobody here would argue Utd haven't been shite the last few years. On the subject of decline this is what you had to say about Arsenal 5 years ago.
You've still to finish above them.
Let's stop talking about trends or what has happened in the past and just focus on the present shall we? You know, the present time when Spurs are sitting 3rd and Utd 6th? BOOM!
Haha only joking - let's just wait and see how the season pans out shall we? Plenty of football to be played and Utd starting to look very strong for the first time in a while - mind you, so do Spurs - I expect both teams to end up in the top 4 personally.
Haha only joking - let's just wait and see how the season pans out shall we? Plenty of football to be played and Utd starting to look very strong for the first time in a while - mind you, so do Spurs - I expect both teams to end up in the top 4 personally.
Oh I see, you say that United have been shite for the last few years, but then deny this represents any sort of downwards trend. ... In other news from Manchester, the rain has started to fall upwards, defying all known laws of physics.
Spur is having an unusual great run at the moment but their fan here above is annoying as hell. Almost as cocky & deluded as Liverpool fans for a team that had very little success in decades. No doubt Poch did something right at White Heart Lane but I'm willing to bet money we will finish this season higher than Spur whether they're in top 4 or not. And that's absolutely the most Spur fans can hope for. No chance of PL title I'm afraid. Don't even dream.
Where have I done that? Is reading comprehension one of your strong suits? We've been shite for three years and still bettered Spurs achievements. That's an indisputable fact. Both clubs have qualified for the Champions League once and been unceremoniously dumped out at the first hurdle. Both currently reside in the Europa League. However, Utd have won the FA Cup and are halfway to another cup final while Spurs are into their 9th season without any silverware.
Where does this trend start by the way? Because as far as I can see Utd are better than they were last season so that would suggest an upward trajectory.
It's pretty unlikely that both Spurs and Utd will finish in the top 4.
Yes. And it was true. They had had declined compared to the last time they won the Prem title back in 2003-04 (and again two years before that).
That decline happened 5 years before that post. In those 5 years they finished 4th 3 times and 3rd twice. It's continued along that path. It's a plateau not a decline. One that's seen them considerably more successful than Tottenham. Declining is a present tense.
The whole discussion of trends has related to the league (not to cup competitions where so much rides on the luck of the draw and just a few games), since the league provides the only consistent means of comparing one Prem team to another.
Anyhow, I'm done talking about the trend of United's decline to those who will only stick their hands in the sand and deny, deny, deny.
@balaks. So let's jump aboard the balak bandwagon and discuss something else.
Now come on I did say I was joking! no mention of a title win anywhere!
I think there is every chance it could happen.
Best thing you've said in a long while.
I think United come up short of top 4 but will backdoor our way into CL through Europa. At the least I expect United to advance further in the cup competitions than Tottenham or Arsenal and City do in CL, which will probably cost us some points later in the season.
You're done because you have your own head in the sand. Nobody has claimed United haven't been shite the last three years. We're all aware of it. But we're looking better now than we have since Fergie left. Spurs are a good team but they aren't a team I fear. They may finish above Utd again this season. They already have an advantage to do so and I'm not that confident yet in Utd's ability to keep their form going. From my own perspective I just find the way yourself and one other Spurs fan on here behave to be completely bizarre given how little you've actually achieved.
If anyone doesnt know, Spurs have finished above United twice in the last 3 years.
I repeat, twice in the last 3 years.
I repeat, twice in the last 3 years.
No Spurs fan on here has said we will win anything and we have all acknowledged that we are fighting for a top 4 finish, if that isn't the case then you have a point?
So it can't be what we say about Spurs that upsets you so much?
We are pretty realistic in expectations.
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