United are winning the Europa League?
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
I'm not a fan of a league. That's be bizarre.
I believe you, but you seem like a fan of a club that (maybe even subconsciously) wants to big up his club by hyping up their league opposition.
You also seem like a wum. Still can't decide between these two.
From BBC Sport:
From 2011 until 2017, the Premier League has had just five Champions League quarter-finals.
Between 2006 and 2011 there were 16.
Going backwards?
From 2011 until 2017, the Premier League has had just five Champions League quarter-finals.
Between 2006 and 2011 there were 16.
Going backwards?
Yeah clearly.
The summer of 2009 was the start of the PL's decline in Europe imo. Real Madrid went on their buying spree that summer that paved the way for La Liga's dominance.
Ofcourse and also will get top 4 with ease at the end of the season. They are just drawing games as they lacked counter attacking dynamics against teams who park the bus in epl
That totally proves that EPL is stronger now. Because of it being stronger, clubs get tired more and so struggle to do well and/or don't care for Europe.
#Logic
United went into ucl final with ultimate ease in 2011 and chelsea won in 2012. UNIted were unlucky to go out in 2013 to a atrocious red card to nani they bossed the whole 2 legs vs real madrid.
Nah, he is first and foremost fan of the league. United is just his favorite club in the league he supports.
I mean, this is the only way someone can explain him celebrating Liverpool defeating Villareal (and wanting them to defeat Sevilla) last season.
You cannot counter agaisnt a low block. That is an oxymoron. You need a coach that has automatisms uses players to occupy zones to open up the pitch. Mourinho's coaching is the problem. Happened to him in the 3rd and 4th year at Chelsea, 3rd year at Real Madrid and 3rd year during his second term at Chrelsea. He is the defintion of a reactive manager. He is the definition of an anti-Cruijffista. His team doesn't know what to do with the ball.
Unstability in management
Or it almost supports argument that English top teams are poor as feck which is why the league is competitive. Well it isn't really since the champions elect are running away with it but this is the narrative. Nobody gets destroyed in PL because there is not a single great team that'd do that. Put any of the big European clubs in and you'd see the same scorelines they are getting in their own leagues from time to time.
I mean, Bayern just beat Arsenal 5-1. Twice. The same Bayern that would struggle immensely in PL. They actually scored 9 goals in 135 minutes against Arsenal after that famous post of yours
Not only Madrid but Atletico, Juventus and Bayern suddenly all show up as well. English clubs like United, Liverpool, Chelsea and pre-2006 Arsenal just never cared about facing those sides during 2000s.
Edit: and Dortmund.
I think he got lost in his PL fanboyism to the extent where he now loves everything Premier League connected.
Nah Dude we have won enough epl's to now exactly what is needed. LVG built the foundations of this team not mourinho, Mourinho has improved it very much this year and it all comes back to life when MKH plays . As Lvg's philosophy we had players for Posession based football and lack pace and balance in attack with rooney mata zlatan all very slow players but still zlatan is scoring goals. Without Counter attacking Dynamics You can not score goals in epl as teams defend deep and wait to counter if you control so much of the posession.
Mourinho is not a reactive manager. He has to set up his team according to the squad and the strenghts of the squad. Conte has been playing the same football mourinho did as a defensive reactive way but he's top of the epl just because he brought a better balance with a 343 system more suiting to strenghts of his creative players .
Mourinho has done very well with Posession based tactics with posession based principles set up by lvg . Epl teams sit deep if you control so much of the ball and theyare good on counters because if you take risks in posession and loose it they can beat you on counters .
United is gonna play a mix of lvg Mourinho way next season with proper signings. something like bayern
Last edited:
There were still some very good sides out there. Milan and Inter were miles better than they are now, Lyon were a good team too. Even teams from smaller leagues were better then - Porto, PSV.
You can control too much possession??
United control 60 - 70 % posession against every team in epl. When we have 3 in midfield with carrick
But that isn't our problem. Our problem is our profligacy in front of goal. That doesn't solve the problem if we start to give the ball away more often.
Posession is not the problem, posession is good but lack of counter attacking dynamics is the problem, lack of pace in the attacking midfield is the problem. when you have 9 men in the box its difficult to score.
The PL is just weak at the moment. City has an atrocious defense, Arsenal has the likes of Coquelin/Walcott/Giroud regularly starting, Chelsea have fecking Moses and Cahill in their lineups, Tottenham always bottles it anyway, Liverpool is Liverpool and United is sitting forever in 6th with some very unreliable finishing going on. Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve and Atletico are the top 5 teams at the moment IMO.
You see that's the problem with the PL, managers try to go to the easy route and talk about physical traits. Monaco are good at counter attacking without incredible pace at the exception of Sidibé, Mendy and Mbappé. On paper United have more pace but there is a lack of will and tactical nous.
There was that thread the other day of "your top 10 teams in Europe" and everyone had two or three English teams in the top ten.
I really don't get where this idea comes from. The only team in England who aren't completely flawed at that level are Chelsea, and in reality there's no basis to judge them either because they spent last season being too shite to even get into Europe.
The EPL needs a team to step up and force the others to do likewise. At the moment all you have to do to be top of the pile is be competent, and in the past 5 years no one can even manage that for more than a season. Sometimes no one manages it at all.
The PL got stronger before because United set the bar higher than anyone consistently, then Arsenal raised it higher, then Chelsea raised it higher again, then United had to step up and try to raise it higher yet again, so you ended up with three or four teams all at a very high level. At the moment the bar is just sitting there on the floor waiting for someone to even bother picking it up. Every year someone else just fumbles about with it then drops it again.
What the PL needs really is Chelsea to win it this year then next year actually get stronger and force eveyrone else to do the same. When WAS the last time a team won the PL and didn't fall to pieces the very next season?
I really don't get where this idea comes from. The only team in England who aren't completely flawed at that level are Chelsea, and in reality there's no basis to judge them either because they spent last season being too shite to even get into Europe.
The EPL needs a team to step up and force the others to do likewise. At the moment all you have to do to be top of the pile is be competent, and in the past 5 years no one can even manage that for more than a season. Sometimes no one manages it at all.
The PL got stronger before because United set the bar higher than anyone consistently, then Arsenal raised it higher, then Chelsea raised it higher again, then United had to step up and try to raise it higher yet again, so you ended up with three or four teams all at a very high level. At the moment the bar is just sitting there on the floor waiting for someone to even bother picking it up. Every year someone else just fumbles about with it then drops it again.
What the PL needs really is Chelsea to win it this year then next year actually get stronger and force eveyrone else to do the same. When WAS the last time a team won the PL and didn't fall to pieces the very next season?
Agreed, Atletico have always been brilliant under simeone with their counter attacks by using the ball efficiently and players making the right movements rather than having a rapid front 4. Dortmund under Klopp were incredible at counter attacking in the Gotze/Perisic-Kagawa-Kuba behind Lewa/Barrios days and that's not really an incredibly fast front 4. Monaco are an incredible counter attacking unit with Falcao and Bernardo in there and neither are quick. Anticipating turnovers and darting ahead of the player you're marking to be at an advantage is just as important as being faster than your opponent i think.
Oh come on have you even watched the epl games? Dint you watch leicester vs sevilla ? how sevilla controlled all of the ball and leicester 's attacking defensive transition was so fast that sevilla could not break them down while leicester should have scored 4 goals on the break. That's how at least 10 Epl teams play in the pl, we lack counterattacking dynamics to break them. I think the most successful club in england and most successful manager in england after sir alex knows how to win the epl. Foriegn and european managers like lvg and pep are stuggling to get what is required .
So You say LVG and Mourinho and pep and Klopp has a lack of will and tactical nous? Really? Where Was the will and tactical Nous of sevilla last night the so called 3 times champions of europa league against a tyical english side who were the champions of england?
United would not have been in problem If rooney dint take a nose dive in his career due to years of poor fitness and proper diet.
Who talked about Sevilla? I talked about the PL nothing else, there is an obsession with physical traits in the PL and not enough emphasis on tactical nous and general intelligence, when a team isn't good at counter attacking the first thing that people mention is a lack of power or speed, instead of concentrating on the their understanding of the game.
That point doesn't mean that PL teams aren't good or that all continental teams are better, it's just one of the reasons why Top PL teams have a hard time filling the gap between them and continental top teams.
I cant tell you about other teams but united 's downfall is due to change of philosophy of the club from a 2 and half decade old ferguson philosophy to the Continental manager LVG 's Philosophy when he tried to undo what ferguson did and redo what he wanted to do. That's where united's dormant period came but its all gonna get fixed next year
That super team was United in 99 and 2008, even the great Arsenal sides of 2002/2004 were not the most dominant teams in Europe, at this moment there is no top 5 team in Europe from the EPL, lets see if next year City will improve, and Chelsea and United do their part, I cannot see Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal amongst the top 5 at this stage.
Sevilla missed 2 penalties, Leicester football is primitive and awfull, English football at this moment with or without foreign managers does not have the best teams, unless you think Shakespeare is better than Guardiola or Sampaoli because he won 1 match playing on the counter, maybe the foreign coaches are all wrong, i guess.
Absolutely. The biggest issue is that the top teams in England have been weak over the past 4 seasons.
The only English teams that have consistently competed in the Champions League are United and Chelsea. United have been poor since Fergie retired and Chelsea have had a long period of instability.
This season has seen an improvement in the standard of the top clubs but they're still quite a bit away from being competitive in the Champions League.
Just don't mention Tottenham and Arsenal please. Biggest bottlers in Europe year after year.
For me City is better than Leicester and it will be Leicester in the quarters, the problem is that too many people make their judgements only based in results.
If Sevilla did not missed 2 penalties nobody would be talking about Leicester, not to mention 2 or 3 balls in the bar, City today in the second half could score 3 or more goals and everybody would be blaming Jardim.
These conversations that everybody should play like Leicester to be sucessfull does not make sense, but maybe I am wrong and they are going to smash Monaco next round.
If Sevilla did not missed 2 penalties nobody would be talking about Leicester, not to mention 2 or 3 balls in the bar, City today in the second half could score 3 or more goals and everybody would be blaming Jardim.
These conversations that everybody should play like Leicester to be sucessfull does not make sense, but maybe I am wrong and they are going to smash Monaco next round.
Wumminator is clearly a WUM so I don't know why people repeatedly take the bait. I get the sense it's because a lot of folks on here are enjoying English football's slump. That'd be fine - except the same people support an English football team which makes their disdain for all things English bizarre.
Holy feck. What the feck is this shit?
They produce/buy better young talent and are rarely subjected to the full force of scrutiny by the british media. Teams in our league even us with comparatively less finances than our peers, cant really pick up a Kante or a Mahrez or get players like Fabinho before they arrive at Monaco. The caveat being if we do try that the fee rises astronomically anyway and the expectation with it. One of the pitfalls of England's poor transfer reputation on the continent. And thats even before you consider the difficulty of acquiring SA players!
Then you get to the much derided winter break, most people seem to forget that Benitez and indeed Ferguson towards the latter stages rotated heavily, the former being chastisised greatly. Despite its obvious benefits. We just dont like it. Bear in mind also, each of those CL squads were usually stacked with a plethora of WC players, we're bereft of that kind of quality now. No longer can we win games without being at full throttle, which tends to hamper us in one competition.
Its not technically great but it is gruelling and I think its time we accepted that unless we enforce some sort of a break and maybe scrap a competition, its going to be very difficult to compete, certainly to do so would push the managers and players to new levels. It might also explain some cases of burnout and players fading, the margins at the very top level are fine.
Just show that all this money in the PL is not a gift.
We buy average player to make average squad.
We think Sané is a world class talent, so what about Bernardo Silva ?
I just think that the Top English club should splash the cash on top top top player once for all and not buying the likes of Stones, Sterling for 100M£.
Most of the players in the PL are overated and few of them can actually be starter in Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern (De Gea, Courtois, Cech, Kanté, Hazard, Sanchez?)
We buy average player to make average squad.
We think Sané is a world class talent, so what about Bernardo Silva ?
I just think that the Top English club should splash the cash on top top top player once for all and not buying the likes of Stones, Sterling for 100M£.
Most of the players in the PL are overated and few of them can actually be starter in Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern (De Gea, Courtois, Cech, Kanté, Hazard, Sanchez?)