You're arguing from a fan's perspective, when it wasn't them who made the decision but Pochettino.
The relative strength of the Premier League
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You're arguing from a fan's perspective, when it wasn't them who made the decision but Pochettino.
Both, really. Poch knows the history of the club and he knows economically, domestically, and legacy wise it's much more important they win the league than beat Dortmund.
As an example, Simeone wouldn't be nearly as highly regarded if he won the league with Real Madrid or Barcelona in comparison to Atletico, neither with Klopp and Dortmund. Winning the league with Spurs would be on par to that in terms of Pochettino.
I doubt a fan who actually travelled to Dortmund would agree with him. What's the point of cheering a team that threw in the towel before it began?
Well first of all I'm not so sure about that. Giving up /getting hammered vs Dortmund surely does not help to establish Spurs as a serious club for European competitions in order to increase their appeal towards players. Secondly I don't think a coach can afford to be guided by sentimentalities if he wants to be successful. I can't imagine that telling his players that they let go fo the EL because this season is such a massive once in a lifetime chance for the club is going to help them in the season finale.
And that doesn't even adress the point that his decision implied that he either doesn't give them a chance vs Dortmund or doesn't trust his team to beat Villa.
I see it the same way and as a Spurs fan I wouldn't visit any EL games in the future until they prove that they see things differently.
But I'm sure (as is evident in this thread) that there are also some fans who want the league title so much that they are fine with throwing away the EL.
You mention Simeone, forgetting that in a grueling league race against Barcelona and Real, he didn't play a reserve side in the CL. He went full throttle against Barcelona in the semi-finals, defeating them, and he was a Ramos goal away from winning the CL. Plus he won La Liga.
Compare that to Pochettino who rested players... For Villa.
That's fair enough to him if he wanted to do that and he took the risk. I don't blame Poch for not wanting to take that risk though (not only because the EL is worth bloody nothing compared to the CL apart from the CL spot if you win it, but they are in a good position to qualify anyway) and give himself every possible chance of winning the title.
Plenty of players are happy to just be in the CL let alone be at a club worthy of winning it, and an admirable fact of Spurs, similar to Dortmund actually is that their sides aren't fully of flashy names or big money signings, they're relatively shrewd clubs at different stages of development. Think Spurs as Dortmund prior to their title if you will. I doubt he tells his players that but i also doubt that it isn't on his mind, as was shown in his team sheet. It doesn't imply that he doesn't trust his team to beat Villa at all, it implies that he decided he wanted to give his team the best possible chance of beating Villa, which is with as many of his first team players fresh and ready as possible.
We didn't do that the last time we played in the CL, so why will we do it next time around? Besides, the CL is a much more prestigious competition compared to the EL, involves fewer games and less likelihood of lots of long-distance travel to obscure stadiums ... so there is less innate attraction to field weakened XIs.
Maybe it's easier for me to sympathise with Spurs as i also support a team that hasn't won a title/european competition in ages.
so, a game vs bvb @ westfalenstadion is not prestigious enough to take it seriously?
ok. tottenham will have a lot of fun next season in the cl. everybody will be afraid of them. what a mentality.
Players don't sign for one year. If Spurs want to follow Dortmund's footsteps they need to sign young and hungry players and those kind of players aren't just in for the paycheck, they want to compete and present themselves on the European stage. I also could never see Klopp giving up on a competition like that and when Dortmund were playing EL during their first title winning season they played every El game at full throttle, even though it was becoming obvious soon that they might challenge for the title that season.
Maybe, but it's not really sympathising, it's just common sense. And I don't get the feeling you're especially saying it was the correct decision by Poch or anything, you're just explaining why he might have done it and why it might have made sense. I think people are being a bit too categorical and definitive about the whole thing.
exactly
like Dortmund?!I didn't say Dortmund have no chance of winning the Bundesliga. But they have much less chance of over-taking B. Munich compared to Spurs' chance of over-taking Leicester. So it makes sense for Dortmund to prioritise the EL, but not so for Spurs. It's really very simple, even though you insist on silly gainsaying.
If Pochettino played his full team in both legs and slipped up in the league people would think he's an idiot from comprising Spurs best oppurtunity in decades. It not like its the semi final or something either... Last 16.
No, no like Dortmund ... and that's the point since you clearly missed it.
you simply dont get the fact that we are prioritise every next game we've got.
its not that we are giving up the league, and thatswhy can play like this against spurs.
get my point?
Is it really that simple? Bayern are much more likely to win games than Leicester and Dortmund are much more likely to win games than Spurs, so who got it easier (relative to their own strength) is up for debate. And why do you think Dortmund prioritise the EL? Thus far they've treated all three competitions with the same kind of dedication.
If they had the same mindset as Tottenham they would've fielded kids vs Bayern.
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The point is your lot turned their nose up at the tie to favour the league.
The EL might not be as glamorous as the CL but it's still European competition and Spurs don't exactly have the same European pedigree to so easily feck it off.
It'd serve you right to screw up the league and finish 5th to be quite frank.
Spurs gonna Spurs.
They actually beat Chelsea but the point stands.
Even more impressive considering Chelsea rested almost their entire XI in their league game a few days earlier against Liverpool. The one where Gerrard slipped.
Being around the top four and being second and chasing what is an untested team in title pursuits (with a mere 9 games remaining) aren't the same thing. It's quite a leap to be sitting behind Man City and Arsenal to being ahead of them.
Thinking they're the same thing is the real bullshit.
I see. So Lloris is not one of Europe's top keepers. And Alli and Dier have not been one of the Prem's best CM combo this season. Next you'll be telling me that Eriksen hasn't created the highest number of goal-scoring chances in the Prem so far this season (as of mid-February - I don't know what the latest stats say).
Having the best defence in the Prem, plus the best goal-difference, plus having scored just one less goal than the two highest-scoring teams .... it's all just a massive fluke I guess, one that has continued for 28 games and counting.
Almost 20 pages now.
Really good to see the debate going, and nice to see people like @JPRouve admit his mistakes a few pages ago, it's important in threads like this. I have no idea why people have such trouble with apologising on the Internet.
IMO there can be absolutely no doubt yesterday's game shows nothing about the quality of the two leagues. Spurs clearly didn't care and wanted players fit to play Villa.
That speaks volumes IMO.
Really good to see the debate going, and nice to see people like @JPRouve admit his mistakes a few pages ago, it's important in threads like this. I have no idea why people have such trouble with apologising on the Internet.
IMO there can be absolutely no doubt yesterday's game shows nothing about the quality of the two leagues. Spurs clearly didn't care and wanted players fit to play Villa.
That speaks volumes IMO.
Bully for you. But you play in a weaker league, one that is dominated by Bayern Munich in most seasons. You don't face the same competitive league pressure as Spurs. Nor do you have to compete against at least 5 clubs that currently have significantly larger incomes, two of which are funded by enormously wealthy sugar-daddies.
It really isn't up for debate - or not sensible debate at any rate. It lacks credibility to suggest that Dortmund have as much chance of over-taking B. Munich as do Spurs of over-taking Leicester.
Dortmund can more easily afford to frequently field full-strength teams compared to Spurs, because Dortmund don't face the same competitive league pressures. The Bundlesliga is a weaker league, so even if a fair number of Dortmund's best players get injured or over-tired from playing too much, they'll still most likely be better than most of the other league teams.
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Absolutely but it also depends on the clubs situation. Obviously the league title is number one priority and Spurs still believe they can beat Leicester to the finish line so they rested/benched 4 of their first team players(although i think they really should have rested more or not at all). But Liverpool played full strength against Augsburg and so did we. Sevilla's top scorer Bacca averaged less minutes than Kane in last years europa and they won the title. So it shows you can win the EL while still using your best players conservatively.
Tottenham rested more than four players last night.
Is that you Twigginater?
Indeed, i feel like that is why it's hard to debate leagues in a decent manner aswell, as though Twigg is being silly and a WUM, fans of other leagues are sometimes a bit too confrontational and defensive.
Oh ok i was just quoting what i read in the europa thread. How many did they rest?
How am I being silly or a WUM? You've pretty much agreed with a lot of what I've said and have been posting exactly what I would have been doing if I was free today.
It is hard to compare leagues, hence the thread.
6 or 7, I think.
About 7 ( Iassume you meant me)
You know as well as i do that this is a WUM on petestorey-esque levels that is so obvious you'll get plenty of people biting. I meant to put silly at times too, as i agree with some points you raise.
The length of the thread doesn't indicate its a good debate, it's mostly people pointing out how much shit you're talking and more recently taking the piss out of Spurs and glaston.
Anyone know where you can find a graph of all 18 Bundesliga club revenues? Would be interesting to see how many clubs are even close to Bayern and how big the gap is between bottom clubs and midtable teams
Yep. The most interesting thing about this thread is how absurd Twiggs posts have been, and how aptly they've been refuted (which was obviously ignored).
The length of the thread doesn't indicate its a good debate, it's mostly people pointing out how much shit you're talking and more recently taking the piss out of Spurs and glaston.
Fair enough if you think it's a great idea to prioritise the league over the EL, but feck me, for a fan of a club that hasn't won a single trophy in decades, you sure as hell are arrogant and ignorant to talk down on the Europa League as if it's beneath Tottenham's level. Much more prestigious clubs than yours try to win it every year and rightfully celebrate the win. But boohoo, the players might have to fly a few more hours in business class twice during the group stages, so you better not even try to win it. Unbelievable.
That's by the way absolute horseshit. You just have to look at clubs like Wolfsburg or Leverkusen to see how fecking difficult it is to beat the smaller teams in the Bundesliga consistently. And Tottenham's level is much closer to Wolfsburg's than to Dortmund's. It's a matter of quality and a question of determination and the mix of quality and intensity that Bayern and Dortmund show pretty much every week is the reason why they're winning so many games.