So TheGame it is.. looking forward to a great game!
And Theon, that was fun
Looking forward to it mate, alot of people writing me off already but I'm gonna give it my best shot.
The Redcafe Champions League Draft
- Thread starter Theon
- Start date
Looking forward to it mate, alot of people writing me off already but I'm gonna give it my best shot.
Are you Snow in disguise? I remember my first draft (70s) he just kept banging on and on and on about how Mourinho had proven 5 midfielders would almost always beat four. Now he gets an entire Chelsea back 5. I reckon Snow is a closet chav.
I blame Woody. (i.e. Eidur)
Exciting draw though. Snow v Fergus was the one we all wanted to see
It's actually a cracking draw. If you asked me what the best draw for the competition's sake would be it wouldn't be far from it. You don't get the frontrunners eliminating each other early, and some teams which look like they still need some work are playing each other so at least one will get that opportunity.
I take full credit for it.
Yeah, way to early to write people off. Every game has to be played, tactics and everything will play its part!
It's actually a cracking draw. If you asked me what the best draw for the competition's sake would be it wouldn't be far from it. You don't get the frontrunners eliminating each other early, and some teams which look like they still need some work are playing each other so at least one will get that opportunity.
I take full credit for it.
you mean you fixed it
I'm Mourinho and Tito is Vilanova, that will never change now. You are Brenton and he is Steve Clarke.
Yeah would be completely silly to write you off mate, with Zidane and Sheva you have a great chance.
Tactics and how people present their players will play a huge part, it always does - just look at some of Antohan's wins!
its uncanny that Theon and I were last in both draws so far.
Name your unpicked players, folks. Just me that thought Sneijder went very late?
It depends on what players you have of course. United proved that when we got raped by City for just crowding the midfield. But if you assume that both teams has the exact same skill and every player is fit for their job then I would go with the 4-2-3-1 where the CAM was more a midfielder than a 4-4-2 where you play two pure strikers up top.
Pick Angelo Di Livio
Thanks feck for that, this is the viola legend I was referring to earlier. It would have been a travesty for this to be so packed with diamonds matched to inadequate fullbacks and Di Livio being ignored. Immense as a player, a captain and a man. A proper legend.
It would have taken me hours if not days to get it so spot on! Even to the point where Theon had told me yesterday he was worried about facing EDogen and he happened to be the one paired in the game I couldn't disclose and that game and the one with Theon in it were games 7 and 8.
So you think 4-2-3-1 is inherently a better formation than a 4-4-2?
Very silly IMO
Cracking utility player Di Livio, FB, DM and CM as far as I am aware
Cheers mate, this is my first draft so learning as I go!
Was gonna pick him when picked Reuter so glad he was still available to be picked, gives me some more options.
what is that formation design website everyone uses?
I see many have predicted a win for Gio in our match. Frankly, I see it as a very close game, and if Gio is setting his side out as I expect him to, I feel my XI and tactics will be more than a match for him. My squad is packed full of renowned captains and leaders, not to mention many who are synonymous with their positions over the era we're focusing on, and two of the most lethal goalscorers in the whole competition fronting my attack. Leaving bias to one side, I genuinely think this match is well up for debate.
Cheers
You reach the wrong conclusion. The real conclusion is "every formation and tactic is stronger against some and weaker against some.".
What is 4-4-2 good against out of interest? And what is 4-5-1 weak against?
Here are some of the players on my shortlist who could potentially have been picked up:
GK - Julio Cesar (was the best in the world between 2008 and 2010);
RB - Christian Panucci; Markus Babbel; Manuel Pablo (presume Moreno Torricielli didn't make the appearances cut)
LB - Amedeo Carboni; Arthur Numan; Serginho; Gianluca Pessotto; Kahka Kaladze;
CB - Jens Nowotny; Nourredine Naybet; Ivan Helguera; Rafa Marquez; Carsten Ramelow; Mark Luliano
CM - Marcos Senna; Dietmarr Hamann; Antonio Conte; Christian Karembeu
AM - Mehmet Scholl; Joao Pinto
WM - Ronald De Boer; Joe Cole; Vicente; Miguel Angulo; Mauro Camorenesi; Mario Basler; Atillo Lombardo
ST - Marcelo Salas; Henrik Larsson; Karim Benzema; Diego Tristan; Giovanni Elber; Fernando Morientes
Didn't check all of them for CL appearances. Oh and I cannot believe Ivan Cordoba didn't get selected.
GK - Julio Cesar (was the best in the world between 2008 and 2010);
RB - Christian Panucci; Markus Babbel; Manuel Pablo (presume Moreno Torricielli didn't make the appearances cut)
LB - Amedeo Carboni; Arthur Numan; Serginho; Gianluca Pessotto; Kahka Kaladze;
CB - Jens Nowotny; Nourredine Naybet; Ivan Helguera; Rafa Marquez; Carsten Ramelow; Mark Luliano
CM - Marcos Senna; Dietmarr Hamann; Antonio Conte; Christian Karembeu
AM - Mehmet Scholl; Joao Pinto
WM - Ronald De Boer; Joe Cole; Vicente; Miguel Angulo; Mauro Camorenesi; Mario Basler; Atillo Lombardo
ST - Marcelo Salas; Henrik Larsson; Karim Benzema; Diego Tristan; Giovanni Elber; Fernando Morientes
Didn't check all of them for CL appearances. Oh and I cannot believe Ivan Cordoba didn't get selected.
Gio, I'm pretty sure that's Lucio in the picture above. I know himself and Cordoba kind of look alike, but that has to be Lucio, is it?!
I don't think there is a lot between any of the sides. It's mainly tactical brainfarts that get punished at this stage.
4-4-2 is strong against 2-3-5/4-2-4/4-3-1-2/4-1-3-2 etc. Every formation has become popular because it was strong against the at the time popular formations. It goes in circles even though some like 2-3-5 may never be seen again but who knows.
For the 4-5-1 you will need to draw the more exact 4-5-1 as they can exist in different ways.
Not really mate. You talk about 4-2-3-1 dominating the midfield against 4-4-2 due to the extra man, while that is true, it also has much lesser goal threat due to one less forward hence your 1 up front needs to put a great shift almost every game. And if your midfield doesn't carry enough goals, you can be left dire despite the extra man in midfield and all the possession, while the other team if they have pace in their wingers and forwards can deal you on the counter and leave the possession game to you.
In the end it all comes down to the strengths and weaknesses of the players, not the formations.
Gio, I'm pretty sure that's Lucio in the picture above. I know himself and Cordoba kind of look alike, but that has to be Lucio, is it?!
That is an inside draft joke. No draft will ever be completed without a reference to it.Inzaghi was pretty unlucky not to be picked given that he's won of the Champions Leagues greatest scorers. Ambrosini also. Few United lads were surprise omissions also. Carrick, Nani and Valencia for example
Was touch and go between Sousa and Carrick for me. Carrick's stock has never been higher and he'd have fitted in well next to the energy of Essien. Like a better version of the Carrick-Fletcher combo we missed so badly in the '09 final.
Damn, Serginho was a good option!
I'm disappointed Yorke didn't make, his peak in 99' was better than many of the strikers picked.
I'm disappointed Yorke didn't make, his peak in 99' was better than many of the strikers picked.
That isn't true at all though. A 4-4-2 relies primarily on 2 players scoring all the goals where as a 4-2-3-1 splits the goals between the entire front 4 more.
"In the end it all comes down to the strengths and weaknesses of the players, not the formations."
This sentence is just utterly stupid, if you really believe it to be true you can play a 0-0-10 to prove your point. Formations are incredibly important but of course the players in it are even more important. But to say "It ALL comes down to the players" is far from true.
Valdes, Coupet, Ferrer, Ivanovic, Sanchis, Modric, Maniche, Boksic, Suker, Zola were others on my shortlist. Some of those may not have qualified though.
The difference between the two formations is minimal when you have good players. A player like Totti or Rivaldo in your side can convert one to the other fairly simply.
The importance of formations is over exaggerated. Reductio ad absurdum by mentioning 0-0-10 doesn't make it less so.
The importance of formations is over exaggerated. Reductio ad absurdum by mentioning 0-0-10 doesn't make it less so.
It only becomes stupid when you start talking about 0-0-10 formations which I obviously didn't mean. The point was 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 are not fundamentally stronger than the other based on just the mechanics. You can beat one with the other by having players better suited to their roles. Just having an extra man in midfield does not even guarantee extra possession if he's someone with average technique, let alone a guaranteed victory.
Naybet, Ramelow, Vicente, Elber and Carrick are the ones I was certain would be picked. Naybet in particular I was willing someone to pick as I've got a fetish for him that borders on the bizarre.
Agree with Anto about Di Livio. I actually thought Kps might go for him on the right wing to counterbalance the more attacking Ronaldo on the left. Can't help but feel that Jake made a monor mistake going for Tiago ahead of Carrick, although he's still got a strong team.
Agree with Anto about Di Livio. I actually thought Kps might go for him on the right wing to counterbalance the more attacking Ronaldo on the left. Can't help but feel that Jake made a monor mistake going for Tiago ahead of Carrick, although he's still got a strong team.
Zola didn't qualify. I checked
Mate if you read the entire conversation since it started you will see that we are on the same page. The discussion was regarding if each team has players equally fit for their positions and equally good individually - a situation which NEVER occurs in reality of course.