The Redcafe Champions League Draft

[TheGame]

Here are some of the players on my shortlist who could potentially have been picked up:

GK - Julio Cesar (was the best in the world between 2008 and 2010);
RB - Christian Panucci; Markus Babbel; Manuel Pablo (presume Moreno Torricielli didn't make the appearances cut)
LB - Amedeo Carboni; Arthur Numan; Serginho; Gianluca Pessotto; Kahka Kaladze;
CB - Jens Nowotny; Nourredine Naybet; Ivan Helguera; Rafa Marquez; Carsten Ramelow; Mark Luliano
CM - Marcos Senna; Dietmarr Hamann; Antonio Conte; Christian Karembeu
AM - Mehmet Scholl; Joao Pinto
WM - Ronald De Boer; Joe Cole; Vicente; Miguel Angulo; Mauro Camorenesi; Mario Basler; Atillo Lombardo
ST - Marcelo Salas; Henrik Larsson; Karim Benzema; Diego Tristan; Giovanni Elber; Fernando Morientes

Didn't check all of them for CL appearances. Oh and I cannot believe Ivan Cordoba didn't get selected.

Came so close to picking some of these.

 

[antohan]

Most of those who missed out missed out for good reasons (which may well have been being a winner with some 90s Juve players and most of the missed fullbacks)

From Gio's list, some comments:

GK - Julio Cesar: better than many of those picked, he is now fat and at QPR, that's why

LB - Serginho; how? how does he get missed? so handy...

CB - Carsten Ramelow; should have been a 12th round option for anyone considering pushing their fullbacks up and dropping a holding DM into defence. He perfected
that way before anyone at Barca.

ST - Henrik Larsson; Theon could have done with him ahead of Aguero
Giovanni Elber; I thought Fergus may have picked him to join Batistuta and Villa Now that's the "all in" right there for you.

And going back to the United issue:

Why is Wes Brown so ridiculously underrated? He was immense in 2008 and a better player than a fair share of the defenders picked on here. He is orange though, was a sub to, errr, Ferdinand and got shipped to Sunderland. Sorry Wes, we are such bastards

The same could be said about Mr. Reliable, Ronny Johnsen.

Owen Hargreaves may be permanently injured, but he won not one but two CLs, with different teams. Utility player my arse, mediocrity doesn't work its way into two separate CL winning sides.

Don't get me started on Darren Fletcher, the man who supposedly would have prevented us collapsing against Barca in 09, not worthy.

Michael Carrick has his own thread where everyone has been raving about him all season. For two years he has single handedly been our entire midfield. But apparently that's not good enough to get picked ahead of Gilberto fecking Silva. I'm positive Marcos Senna would have gone before too. Not bad players, btu they are Brazlian, that's why. Carrick just ain't sexy.

Tevez I can understand, the blue nose cnut. But Nani, Yorke, Cole, Sheringham... feck them, all shit.

I know, you need to balance winners and non-winners... but bar the goalkeeper pretty much everyone at Barca made it, even their subs. Our guys? Nah, it's all SAF getting more than the sum of the parts. I feel dirty.

/Rant

 

[Feeky Magee]

Name your unpicked players, folks. Just me that thought Sneijder went very late?

I agree. I suppose his recent form dictates that, if this draft was 3 years ago he probably goes in the first 2/3 rounds.

 

[antohan]

Valdes, Coupet, Ferrer, Ivanovic, Sanchis, Modric, Maniche, Boksic, Suker, Zola were others on my shortlist. Some of those may not have qualified though.

I can't believe I spent half the game writing cryptic messages not to give away Ivanovic and then no one picked him...

 

[antohan]

Naybet, Ramelow, Vicente, Elber and Carrick are the ones I was certain would be picked. Naybet in particular I was willing someone to pick as I've got a fetish for him that borders on the bizarre.

Naybet was the sort Gio would have picked if he hadn't burnt himself with him before. I think he played Naybet-Ayala in the 70s draft, awesome and completely in control on paper, but a tad too slow a pair given the fast and furious attacks people were putting together.

 

[NM]

GK - Julio Cesar: better than many of those picked, he is now fat and at QPR, that's why


Why is Wes Brown so ridiculously underrated? He was immense in 2008 and a better player than a fair share of the defenders picked on here. He is orange though, was a sub to, errr, Ferdinand and got shipped to Sunderland. Sorry Wes, we are such bastards



The same could be said about Mr. Reliable, Ronny Johnsen.

Owen Hargreaves may be permanently injured, but he won not one but two CLs, with different teams. Utility player my arse, mediocrity doesn't work its way into two separate CL winning sides.

Don't get me started on Darren Fletcher, the man who supposedly would have prevented us collapsing against Barca in 09, not worthy.

Michael Carrick has his own thread where everyone has been raving about him all season. For two years he has single handedly been our entire midfield. But apparently that's not good enough to get picked ahead of Gilberto fecking Silva. I'm positive Marcos Senna would have gone before too. Not bad players, btu they are Brazlian, that's why. Carrick just ain't sexy.

/Rant

Cesa - because of CL and QPR

Brown - because of injuries and Sunderland.

Hargreaves - WANTED to pick him but the caf hates him

Fletch - underrated on the caf

Carrick vs Gilberto - Picked Gilberto due to tried and tested combination with Vieira.. When you pick last you need that sort of thing! Also non CL winner.

 

[Isotope]

Poborsky for whoever need decent non-CL winger.

 

[antohan]

Cesa - because of CL and QPR

Brown - because of injuries and Sunderland.

Hargreaves - WANTED to pick him but the caf hates him

Fletch - underrated on the caf

Carrick vs Gilberto - Picked Gilberto due to tried and tested combination with Vieira.. When you pick last you need that sort of thing! Also non CL winner.

I know why you in particular would pick Gilberto, that was not what I was gettig at.

Your post illustrates my point perfectly. We hate/underrate our own players, who, BTW, are harder to pick as they HAVE WON STUFF FOR US.

It's pretty sad.

 

[KM]

It's ridiculous that Carrick wasn't picked IMO. Better than Gilberto Silva and Tiago. On par with Cambiasso(probably better than him) and Mascherano. He was world class last season.

 

[Isotope]

Valdes, Coupet, Ferrer, Ivanovic, Sanchis, Modric, Maniche, Boksic, Suker, Zola were others on my shortlist. Some of those may not have qualified though.

I had Ferrer on a newbie draft, but seems like no one rated him. Played for Barca for 7 seasons, part of Cruyff's Dream Team, can play as CB (in 3), balance in defence and attack, and fast.

 

[Cutch]

I can't believe I spent half the game writing cryptic messages not to give away Ivanovic and then no one picked him...

I knew you were. We couldn't find room for him. If he hadn't won the CL he'd have been in no doubt.

 

[Cutch]

Very surprised Sanchis wasn't picked, or Helguera who could also play in midfield.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Very surprised Nani wasn't picked he is absolutely great in his peak form and fits in to the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 very well. I am also very surprised Valencia wasn't picked as there aren't that many right midfielders who can play a 4-4-2 that well. Figo/Beckham who are unlikely to get together but after that he is top class. Lika Antohan said, people left Carrick out that is absolutely mental - whoever had Scholes had the chance of getting a 12th pick midfielder in Carrick who had partnered Scholes in one of the most successful United sides ever...Mental.

I guess people are scared of picking United players due to the daily hate they get on here, people prefer going for some neutral player instead.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Most of those who missed out missed out for good reasons (which may well have been being a winner with some 90s Juve players and most of the missed fullbacks)

From Gio's list, some comments:

GK - Julio Cesar: better than many of those picked, he is now fat and at QPR, that's why

LB - Serginho; how? how does he get missed? so handy...

CB - Carsten Ramelow; should have been a 12th round option for anyone considering pushing their fullbacks up and dropping a holding DM into defence. He perfected
that way before anyone at Barca.

ST - Henrik Larsson; Theon could have done with him ahead of Aguero
Giovanni Elber; I thought Fergus may have picked him to join Batistuta and Villa Now that's the "all in" right there for you.

And going back to the United issue:

Why is Wes Brown so ridiculously underrated? He was immense in 2008 and a better player than a fair share of the defenders picked on here. He is orange though, was a sub to, errr, Ferdinand and got shipped to Sunderland. Sorry Wes, we are such bastards

The same could be said about Mr. Reliable, Ronny Johnsen.

Owen Hargreaves may be permanently injured, but he won not one but two CLs, with different teams. Utility player my arse, mediocrity doesn't work its way into two separate CL winning sides.

Don't get me started on Darren Fletcher, the man who supposedly would have prevented us collapsing against Barca in 09, not worthy.

Michael Carrick has his own thread where everyone has been raving about him all season. For two years he has single handedly been our entire midfield. But apparently that's not good enough to get picked ahead of Gilberto fecking Silva. I'm positive Marcos Senna would have gone before too. Not bad players, btu they are Brazlian, that's why. Carrick just ain't sexy.

Tevez I can understand, the blue nose cnut. But Nani, Yorke, Cole, Sheringham... feck them, all shit.

I know, you need to balance winners and non-winners... but bar the goalkeeper pretty much everyone at Barca made it, even their subs. Our guys? Nah, it's all SAF getting more than the sum of the parts. I feel dirty.

/Rant

I guess with Utd players there's always the fear that because voters will remember their bad games/seasons so well they'll vote against them. Carrick is a crazy omission, but what if he's up against some of the Barca midfield and the opposing manager lasers in on how badly he struggled against them in the final? Not that the likes of Tiago would do any better necessarily, but the point stands.

Larsson is one of my favourite ever players, but I think Theon made the right call there. Larsson was smart enough to be a great partner for pretty much anyone, but he duplicates many of Crespo's qualities whilst Aguero's pace and nifty dribbling provides another dimension of flair.

 

[antohan]

Larsson is one of my favourite ever players, but I think Theon made the right call there. Larsson was smart enough to be a great partner for pretty much anyone, but he duplicates many of Crespo's qualities whilst Aguero's pace and nifty dribbling provides another dimension of flair.

Larsson probably has the reverse United effect. He did well everywhere, whoever the partner, and we just kept saying "Celtic"/"SPL is shite", etc. Then he came here, slotted in amid some absolutely cracking players who were hitting form and pushed them one level higher. It was a short stint btu christ, what a way of making a statement...

Thing is I don't see Theon's two as a pair upfront but one of them being a second striker working the build up with Iniesta, dragging defenders out of position, etc. I thought he would have been better off with Crespo partnered again with Piojo López over Agüero for starters. But once that was gone, I liked the idea of Larsson. Agüero is fine, i just rate the other two much higher as of now. He is supposed to be City's main man and just scored 13 goals in the EPL. He hasn't made it/peaked yet IMO.

 

[Buchan]

That is an inside draft joke. No draft will ever be completed without a reference to it.

My bad!

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I can see the logic behind Larsson but Lopez not so much. Lopez was quite inconsistent as I remember, more so than Aguero.

 

[Buchan]

On the unpicked players issue, I think the four non-medal winners rule dictated a lot of that. I thought of several players whom I would have picked had this criteria not been deployed, as I'm sure plenty of others would have too.

Larsson was the overall obvious omission, for me.

 

[antohan]

I can see the logic behind Larsson but Lopez not so much. Lopez was quite inconsistent as I remember, more so than Aguero.

As you said Larsson, is a different player.

With López I just think you are looking at the same stuff Agüero can do, plus a more significant wide threat, more pace on the break, and a more established understanding with Crespo. López always did that nippy striker role alongside a proper No.9 (whether Bati or Crespo), while I haven't actually seen much of an understanding between Agüero and Higuain (the closest Argies have to offer, both worse IMO).

It's somewhat irrelevant as I fully expect Theon to upgrade Agüero if he goes through. That's a more interesting dilemma. Imagine Snow lost, would you pick Kaká for his own Milan side, or Ronaldinho?

 

[Fergus' son]

I can see the logic behind Larsson but Lopez not so much. Lopez was quite inconsistent as I remember, more so than Aguero.

Aguero is great, I think him and Crespo would be good. However, I did want theon to take Yorke, thought he would've been a great option.

 

[JakeC]

It's ridiculous that Carrick wasn't picked IMO. Better than Gilberto Silva and Tiago. On par with Cambiasso(probably better than him) and Mascherano. He was world class last season.

Mascherano is a completely different player. Carrick and Xabi would be too passive.

 

[Ralaks]

I would've picked Carrick but I wouldn't have been able to use him without weakening my team, imo.

VDS​

Rafael Ramos Pique Capdevila​

Beckham Keane Effenberg Overmars​

Del Piero​

Trezeguet​

​

I wouldn't be able to field him due to the 4 non-winners rule.​

 

[Cutch]

Lopez was my favourite player when i started watchin La Liga. Used to tear Barca and Real to shreds, they just couldn't live with his pace. Gives an option out wide aswell as through the middle. Has performed in World Cups and in Champions Leagues and is definately more proven than Aguero at present.

Not that surprised Larsson missed out tbh. Wasted far too much of his career in Scotland. The likes of Boksic and Inzaghi are more startling omissions.

 

[antohan]

On the unpicked players issue, I think the four non-medal winners rule dictated a lot of that. I thought of several players whom I would have picked had this criteria not been deployed, as I'm sure plenty of others would have too.

Larsson was the overall obvious omission, for me.

He did win a CL though.

I still wonder whether people should have gone for the likes of Baia instead of Coupet or Diego López. I sure wouldn't have.

 

[Buchan]

He did win a CL though.

Err... that's what I was trying to get across, anto. Folk would have chosen him had they not already completed their maximum of eight Champions League winners.

 

[antohan]

It sounded like you were saying many have been missed but that it would be largely about their CL winning status, which would imply Larsson was the overall obvious omission if that didn't also affect him.

 

[antohan]

Anyhow, guys, good luck! I'm going to Jamaica for a week.

 

[Thisistheone]

Robbie Earle scored a World Cup goal for them. Enjoy!

 

[Gio]

He did win a CL though.

I still wonder whether people should have gone for the likes of Baia instead of Coupet or Diego López. I sure wouldn't have.

Diego Lopez was my back-up choice, a safe pair of hands. I've had Baia before and although he's a decent enough choice, there is a bit of the Valdes about him.

 

[Stobzilla]

I was surprised Jens Jeremies wasn't taken

 

[Theon]

What does everyone think of this for the schedule?

Wednesday
Snow vs Fergus'son
Nahealai vs Gio

Thursday
Ralaks vs Feeky
Tito vs Stob

Friday
kps vs Isotope
akash vs Jake

Saturday
TheGame vs EDogen
BD/NM vs Theon

 

[Snow]

Are you Snow in disguise? I remember my first draft (70s) he just kept banging on and on and on about how Mourinho had proven 5 midfielders would almost always beat four. Now he gets an entire Chelsea back 5. I reckon Snow is a closet chav.

I blame Woody. (i.e. Eidur)

Almost always? No. Most often, yes. Prove me wrong.

(assuming of course the teams are similar in quality. A Spain side playing 4-4-2 would still beat a 4-5-1 Bolton)

 

[sajeev]

What does everyone think of this for the schedule?

Wednesday
Snow vs Fergus'son
Nahealai vs Gio

Thursday
Ralaks vs Feeky
Tito vs Stob

Friday
kps vs Isotope
akash vs Jake

Saturday
TheGame vs EDogen
BD/NM vs Theon

two matches a day is too much in my opinion and a bit confusing in terms of there being too many draft threads being active at the same time. and there is loads of time for the summer to be through. why the hurry?

 

[EDogen]

A long time until the match I see. Will have plenty of time to get tactics and player profiles ready. That is nice.

 

[Theon]

two matches a day is too much in my opinion and a bit confusing in terms of there being too many draft threads being active at the same time. and there is loads of time for the summer to be through. why the hurry?

Yeah I agree with alot of that.

Every draft that I've seen has always had two matches on each day, so I just followed that pattern here. But considering how little football there is to discuss you may be right that its better to space it out slightly.

I also thought about a one day break in the middle, just to give time for the older games to move to the bottom of the page and not clog up the footy forum, and also to prevent voter fatigue.

Anyone else got any opinions?

 

[Stobzilla]

One a day seems ample and would create less diluted discussion in the threads which should make it more fun.

 

[EDogen]

I like the idea of one game per day.

 

[Theon]

How is this for everyone?

Wednesday
Snow vs Fergus'son

Thursday
Nahealai vs Gio

Friday
Ralaks vs Feeky

Saturday
Tito vs Stob

Monday
TheGame vs EDogen

Tuesday
akash vs Jake

Wednesday
kps vs Isotope

Thursday
BD/NM vs Theon

 

[Cutch]

Aye suppose theres no panic. Looks alrite Theon.

 

[EDogen]

I am going away to Berlin Thursday morning (4th July) and coming back Tuesday morning (9th).

If possible I would like to have my game monday or tuesday instead of wednesday?