The Redcafe Champions League Draft

The 70s one was awful. It was horrendous to spend about a month drafting, playing and then over a single decision being pummelled like that. I didn't even get the chance to make my case, it just kept ticking. Some even said it was me not wanting to bench my Uruguayan players, when it had feck all to do with that.

Very frustrating. Early votes are important to sense which way things are going, but it is better to comment, suggest, hear the case out before jumping on a bandwagon like that. I was 8-2 before an hour had passed, and the 2 included my own vote. I wound up losing by the single vote.

Mental.
I remember that game, as you posted in the all time draft. Yeah, they accused you on not taking Rivaldo because of your 'bias' :D.

Anyway, what do you think of Boban on the right? And my team overall? I'm mimicking Bayern system (with much better CMs) but seems like there lack of love on my team here. Should i go with 4-2-3-1, or 4-4-2?
 
To be honest I remember feeling at the time that your team still stacked up well against anyones, but that Anto had backed you into the corner of arguing passionately against the need for width in one round then waxing lyrical about it in the next. He's a crafty customer!

Eh? I didn't play in that draft.

He just PMd me every now and then, and when the big pool opened up to pick players up I suggested he picked Beckahm and went 4-4-2. We also had a disagreement over his defence. He was adamant Kompany was the most awesome defender in EPL history. Granted, it didn't help him that was played around the time he was ducking away from free kicks :lol:

That's another thing that always hits randomly, current rubbish form. It happened to Pol with Valencia and it happened to me with Forlán at Inter post 2010 WC.
 
I reckon Lizarazu and Irwin are a fine pair of wing-backs. In the 1990s the only full-backs who did not end up playing as wing-backs were converted, lumbering centre-halves, and even then there are a number of central defenders who were capable as wing-backs in a 3-5-2. I'm glad someone is trying a back three, it was very much in vogue in the 1990s Champions League and international scene.
 
van Nistelrooy​
------Raúl​
Ballack ------------Xavi​
Busquets​
Lizarazu ------------------------------- Irwin​
CB ------ CB ------ CB​
GK​

Something I'm thinking about at the moment.

That's like the current Juventus team, most teams tend to play 3 at the back with an AM not a DM like the 1998 Juve team - yours looks great, Lizarazu is a great pickup for that side!
 

Well, sort of, you just kept blowing smoke up his arse, same with Hart. For some reason you absolutely wanted to stick to Hart with the Great Dane available. You were facing Overmars, Henry, van Persie and you thought Kompany and Hart would be fine stopping them.
 
Eh? I didn't play in that draft.

He just PMd me every now and then, and when the big pool opened up to pick players up I suggested he picked Beckahm and went 4-4-2. We also had a disagreement over his defence. He was adamant Kompany was the most awesome defender in EPL history. Granted, it didn't help him that was played around the time he was ducking away from free kicks :lol:

That's another thing that always hits randomly, current rubbish form. It happened to Pol with Valencia and it happened to me with Forlán at Inter post 2010 WC.

I just remember you two having some colossal debates in these drafts. The finer details escape me evidently!
 
Anyway, what do you think of Boban on the right? And my team overall? I'm mimicking Bayern system (with much better CMs) but seems like there lack of love on my team here. Should i go with 4-2-3-1, or 4-4-2?

I think you jumped the gun with some of those players. Boban isn't the most popular player, I can tell you that. The upside is you can play him wherever you fancy as people will equally not rate him. Albertini isn't 4th round material in my book either. It also seems to me you are cocking up the non-CL winning criteria. There are non-CL winners still out there who are actually better than them two. I'd say Campbell and Redondo are your inspired picks in there.

Sounds harsh, I know, but that's feedback for you. If you ask for it, be prepared to take it!

Don't worry too much over this though, the luck of the draw and what three upgrades you can pick can change a situation overnight.

Just look at the Theon case below after just three upgrades in the Premier draft (yes I dug it up because I thought it was completely amazing at the time).
 
Iso and everyone starting to lose their motivation. This is what Theon and I were going on about earlier:

This is what he had going into his first game:

i.e. a completely random side with some very good players

and we turned it into this:


CENSORED
 
Well, sort of, you just kept blowing smoke up his arse, same with Hart. For some reason you absolutely wanted to stick to Hart with the Great Dane available. You were facing Overmars, Henry, van Persie and you thought Kompany and Hart would be fine stopping them.

Kompany was fantastic last season - he was the best defender in the league and won Player of the Year for a reason. This season he's dipped for sure, but at the end of 2011/12 he was considered the best in the league by most people. I never thought he was even close to the best the Premiership has seen though, absolutely absurd statement you have just come out with.

With Hart/Schmeichel as you said in this thread...

Some comments/feedback, nothing to get worked up about:
  • Jakec, GKs don't make much of a difference. It is not even an unwritten rule but cast in stone.
 
could be a bad idea posting up them teams.
 
Antohan delete that post some of those players haven't been picked.

You also haven't even posted the diamond one so it's a completely unrelated post that serves no purpose. And you've ignored adding in Cantona, Makelele, McGrath etc - no shit the second team is better.

I'm not even sure what your point is? It was my team and I think I made a mistake not picking up Cantona and Makelele because that midfield two couldn't keep up with the others.. It was my team and has nothing to do with you. All you are doing is derailing this thread.

I have no idea why you are so arsed about this, but cut it out now.
 
Thanks for the feedback Anto gutted I missed out actually. Stobz needs to create a quality defence there are players out there actually quite a few un defence but if he gets a partner for Gerrard/Veron later on he will have a VERY dangerous team. When we are talking great midfielders where does Keane stack up?
 
I think you jumped the gun with some of those players. Boban isn't the most popular player, I can tell you that. The upside is you can play him wherever you fancy as people will equally not rate him. Albertini isn't 4th round material in my book either. It also seems to me you are cocking up the non-CL winning criteria. There are non-CL winners still out there who are actually better than them two. I'd say Campbell and Redondo are your inspired picks in there.

Sounds harsh, I know, but that's feedback for you. If you ask for it, be prepared to take it!

Don't worry too much over this though, the luck of the draw and what three upgrades you can pick can change a situation overnight.

Just look at the Theon case below after just three upgrades in the Premier draft (yes I dug it up because I thought it was completely amazing at the time).

Yeah. It's a bit weird that people don't rate Albertini and Boban. I thought my midfield trio (boban-albertini-redondo) was the best so far. Hopefully my next picks will be more exciting.
 
Anyone want to receive and post my next pick via PM once akash makes his choice? I've got an early start in the morn so need to call it a night shortly.
 
Anyone want to receive and post my next pick via PM once akash makes his choice? I've got an early start in the morn so need to call it a night shortly.

Yeah go for it
 
Yeah. It's a bit weird that people don't rate Albertini and Boban. I thought my midfield trio (boban-albertini-redondo) was the best so far. Hopefully my next picks will be more exciting.
I rate Boban - he's got a wand of a right foot. But rightly or wrongly he is not perceived, on here at least, of having Prosinecki's maverick streak, or the cheeky genius of a Stojkovic for example.
 
could be a bad idea posting up them teams.
Antohan delete that post some of those players haven't been picked.

Sorry, thought about checking if they had all been picked but it was really a bunch of household names so didn't bother.

I'm not even sure what your point is?

I was trying to cheer up Iso as I had just given him some pretty nasty feedback. Others have also commented on how deflated they are after missing on X, Y or Z.

I think unless a side is fundamentally flawed, any shortcomings can be fixed later, you just make it a bit harder for "later" to happen, that's all.
 
akash02 picks Emmanuel Petit

40592-emmanuel-petit-637x0-1.jpg
 
Thanks for the feedback Anto gutted I missed out actually. Stobz needs to create a quality defence there are players out there actually quite a few un defence but if he gets a partner for Gerrard/Veron later on he will have a VERY dangerous team. When we are talking great midfielders where does Keane stack up?

Depends on your tactics. For a 4-4-2 he is way up there, probably the best. Move on to more continental formations adn some odd picks start being made, e.g. I would always have Busquets over him in Barca's midfield. We've seen him deployed in the Makelele role before, which to me is a complete waste of his talents.
 
The Game: 1. Zidane 2. Seedorf 3. Shevchenko 4. Frank De Boer 5. Pires 6. Cocu 7. Ze Roberto
JakeC: 1. Messi 2. Cantona 3. Buffon 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Xabi Alonso 6. Puyol 7. Mascherano
kps88: 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Kohler 3. Davids 4. Vieri 5. Riquelme 6. Costacurta 7. Cambiasso
Thisistheone: 1. Ronaldo 2. Desailly 3. Rui Costa 4. Blanc 5. Essien 6. Dani Alves 7. Rooney
Ralaks: 1. Keane 2. Del Piero 3. Effenberg 4. Beckham 5. Overmars 6. Ramos 7. Trezeguet
nahealai: 1. Xavi 2. Raúl 3. van Nistelrooy 4. Ballack 5. Busquets 6. Lizarazu 7. Irwin
Stobzilla: 1. Henry 2. Stam 3. Totti 4. Gerrard 5. Veron 6. Mata 7. G. Neville
Feeky: 1. Maldini 2. Scholes 3. Bergkamp 4. Deschamps 5. Ibrahimovic 6. Y. Touré 7. David Silva
akash02: 1. Romario 2. Cannavaro 3. Hagi 4. Guardiola 5. Lahm 6. McManaman 7. Petit
Gio: 1. Rivaldo 2. Nedved 3. Ferdinand 4. Zanetti 5. Fabregas 6. Zambrotta
Snow: 1. Ronaldinho 2. Kaka 3. Mendieta 4. Terry 5. Carvalho 6. A. Cole
Isotope: 1. Redondo 2. Ribery 3. Eto'o 4. Albertini 5. Campbell 6. Boban
EDogen: 1. Nesta 2. Giggs 3. Hierro 4. Van Persie 5. Enrique 6. Robben
Theon: 1. Iniesta 2. Pirlo 3. Cafu 4. Gattuso 5. De Rossi 6. Crespo
Fergus'son: 1. Batistuta 2. Thuram 3. Ayala 4. Makelele 5. Schweinsteiger 6. Möller
BD/NM: 1. Vieira 2. Figo 3. Vidic 4. Drogba 5.Lampard 6. Popescu
 
I rate Boban - he's got a wand of a right foot. But rightly or wrongly he is not perceived, on here at least, of having Prosinecki's maverick streak, or the cheeky genius of a Stojkovic for example.

Prosinecki and Savicevic are more skillful, alright. Boban is more on ball distribution / better playmaking. His workrate is superb also (he must be, playing for Capello strict defensive system). Such a shame only few rate him. It's the same with his teammate, Donadoni, who isn't a vote winner too, in newbie draft.

He and Albertini also have played together, so should be familiar with each other.
 
Paolo Montero

_38580049_montero300.jpg


Uncompromising and classy, the left-footed centre-half is the perfect complement to Ferdinand.
 
Yeah. It's a bit weird that people don't rate Albertini and Boban. I thought my midfield trio (boban-albertini-redondo) was the best so far. Hopefully my next picks will be more exciting.

It's not just excitement, it's the CL rule and how early you went for them. Once you have Redondo you can pretty much wait for turn 8 before getting him a decent enough partner, no need to rush one that isn't a standout unless he is non-CL, but both have won it. The draft is not that much about the right players but the right sequencing to build a good enough spine with future upgrades in mind.
 
Paolo Montero

_38580049_montero300.jpg


Uncompromising and classy, the left-footed centre-half is the perfect complement to Ferdinand.


I was wondering who was going to get him quality pick.
 
Depends on your tactics. For a 4-4-2 he is way up there, probably the best. Move on to more continental formations adn some odd picks start being made, e.g. I would always have Busquets over him in Barca's midfield. We've seen him deployed in the Makelele role before, which to me is a complete waste of his talents.


Fair point. I think people forget at his peak he was truly a box to box midfielder of the highest order our midfield is screaming out for him now. So to move a conversation from another thread. So you feel Iniesta has surpassed Zidane or not?
 
Paolo Montero

_38580049_montero300.jpg

:drool: You know how I love a surreal XI stalwart
Surreal Football Approved XI: Paolo Montero

‘Paolo Rónald Montero Iglesias’ would be the introduction used by most when writing a tribute, because they think it does a number of things. In their head, it implies that they had done research, and that they had a deeper understanding of the game compared to you. Really, it does none of those things. What it does mean is that they missed the point of Paolo Montero, and that they were going to offer the usual, par for the course tat.

This site clearly enjoys violence, but violence isn’t the reason to enjoy Paolo Montero. His brutal tackles are to be admired in retrospect, but it’s his sheer masculinity, not his fouls, that matter.

The finest of Alex Ferguson’s teams was not the 2008 Champions League winners, nor the second coming of the Busby Babes. The most satisfying team was his first great side. The side of bastards. If football is decided in part by skill and tactics, then what separates teams at the line is character.

Teams are so good that leagues (though not cups) are decided by spirit and talent in equal ratio. And football is such a miserable exercise because although footballers become ever more skillful and athletic, they seem even more committed to being the most objectionable humans ever assembled. The Surreal Football XI is founded on the team’s mutual respect of masculinity - a homoerotic kick against the pricks. This is the reason to celebrate Montero.

He calmly demonstrates the reasons why modern football is so disastrously poor. Just as England and particularly London utterly lost its moral compass and headed with determination up its own fundament, so football has followed. Paolo Montero is of the final generation before masculinity disintegrated. This is no appeal to bring back the leg breakers and gonzo arseholes who finished careers. It is simply an appeal to bring men who aren’t so soft they get bullied by Jamie Carragher.

Clearly, I don’t know how to be a real man, but Paolo Montero offers guidance.

One: be Uruguayan. Is John Terry Uruguayan? Exactly. If you wonder if there’s anything better than a classic Italian defender, the answer is yes, one thing, a Uruguayan defender.

Two: be a left back. We have made it clear that the left-back is the home of the unorthodox scoundrel, the cornerstone of any great team. Pundits and fans insist that the spine of the team is where the game is won, but try to think of a team worth a damn with a tedious left back.

Three: also be a centre back in one of the finest defences of all time, and hold your own. Fabio Cannavaro – the most beautiful defender of a generation, Ciro Ferrara – the most elegant, and Lilian Thuram – the one who mocks Sarkozy the most. He partnered them all, and didn’t let any of them down. Imagine John Terry playing with any of these. He couldn’t.

Four: play in the coolest league of the 90s. When James Richardson used to be OK, he offered a window to the first truly sexual experience of teenagers of the 1990s. Thrillingly new, and often a let down, this wasn’t losing your virginity, it was Italian football. Paolo Montero was a reassuring presence for the whole jaunt.

Five: be Zinedine Zidane’s best friend at Juventus. Our XI is a team of bastards, but we don’t want them chinning each other.
 
Fair point. I think people forget at his peak he was truly a box to box midfielder of the highest order our midfield is screaming out for him now. So to move a conversation from another thread. So you feel Iniesta has surpassed Zidane or not?

Don't even go there. It completely derailed the all-time thread and will do the same with this one. Aldo has very strong views on that, and for a Frenchman to favour Iniesta it is quite something. Let's just say I do think Iniesta is a more adaptable option in these drafts and leave it at that.

In Zidane's defence though, Iniesta would never make the surreal XI. This is his entry.

First paragraph below to wet your appetite although the final two are the killer blow:

Scott Oliver said:
Question: Do you see filmmakers lining up to make art house movies tracking Gareth Barry in hyperreal close-up through a full game, and in real time? Or Lee Cattermole? Exactly. Of course you don’t.
 
Y
It's not just excitement, it's the CL rule and how early you went for them. Once you have Redondo you can pretty much wait for turn 8 before getting him a decent enough partner, no need to rush one that isn't a standout unless he is non-CL, but both have won it. The draft is not that much about the right players but the right sequencing to build a good enough spine with future upgrades in mind.

Yeah. I should be more tactful about the future upgrade. I'm just the lite Mourinho of drafter, only plan on short-term success.
 
Prosinecki and Savicevic are more skillful, alright. Boban is more on ball distribution / better playmaking. His workrate is superb also (he must be, playing for Capello strict defensive system). Such a shame only few rate him. It's the same with his teammate, Donadoni, who isn't a vote winner too, in newbie draft.

He and Albertini also have played together, so should be familiar with each other.

I had Boban in that 90s Serie A draft, in fact I picked up after beating someone but he was never rated in front of fancier names, when he rightfully deserves to be a top name according the rules of that draft. Let's see how it goes this time out.
 
Don't even go there. It completely derailed the all-time thread and will do the same with this one. Aldo has very strong views on that, and for a Frenchman to favour Iniesta it is quite something. Let's just say I do think Iniesta is a more adaptable option in these drafts and leave it at that.


Oh k interesting topic but lets not derail another draft thread. Love the Montero piece, a current azzurri defender reminds me of him physically and in style.