The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Probably not the best time to put on a Supercard with a lot of folks having plenty of distractions in their life.
Like some of the undercard but seems to lack a killer co-main contest.
 
Fortitude said:
So I have this theory: as the biggest prize in the sport has been bought and paid for, there is no longer a need for the Saudi’s to actively promote it. Their objective is not to appeal to the general masses as they have no need for eyes on the fights or better to say; how much money that can generate via PPV, gate etc. if the fights or had been going through normal boxing lore, it’d be promoted to the heavens because those involved would obviously want and need not only the recoup, but also actively and desperately seek the profit, which is normally why these blockbuster fights get made in the first place.

The Saudi’s are of the opinion that if you tune in, you’ll get the razzmatazz and the OTT performances/show before the fight, but if you don’t, oh well. In an ideal world, they get all the kudos and also turn a hefty profit, but in the interim, they’re comfortable with how things are, and so long as the show itself is a good/great one, the more they weave into the fabric of the sport.

Not sure there’s apathy for the fights or fighters, but without the heavy promotion, the fight won’t really create the gravitas this level of contest should.
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I think there's also just the possibility they're not all that great at it or to put more charitably, they're still probing and learning through trial and error (fiddling with different PPV pricing for instance). They paid for yet another very expensive promo film to push this fight and did grand arrivals from a jetliner. Turki Al-Sheik erratic foray into Egyptian football (and less so in the Spanish Liga) runs counter to him as some master strategist. Staging a monster card in LA that predictably took a massive bath or the fact he wanted to have more big fights on the February event around Bivol-Beterbiev 2 (that is already overstuffed) are other points of evidence of this.

If they didn't care about budgeting they'd just broadcast this for free (Well, Turki uploaded almost his cards on his YT a couple of days after so...). I wonder if there's a limit to how much money they're willing to burn. It's been reported Usyk-Fury 2 purses are well in excess of 100m$/close to 200m$ and that's just for the two headliners, the cost per event must be astronomical and you'd think the returns per dollar cannot be all that great and they get more out of their WWE and UFC partnerships (though, granted, they can realistically take direct control of a large share of elite pro boxing in a way they cannot in other sports).

What's true with regards to Fusyk 2 is that maybe they assume that if you tuned in for the first fight, you probably know it happens.
 
Anyone think Fury will be heavily favoured on the cards? The opportunity for a trilogy and all that…..
 
T00lsh3d said:
Anyone think Fury will be heavily favoured on the cards? The opportunity for a trilogy and all that…..
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Everyone gets that vibe, heh ?

I don't think there was (yet) a massive controversy on any decision for one of those Saudi promoted fights. Some of the Saudi fighters appearing in prelims got very charitable results but that's it. Bivol Beterbiev it tracked with the general consensus as far as we can tell (I personally thought Bivol maybe won that) and the Ford-Ball fight was an activity vs accuracy dilemma you often see.

I don't know there's anything rational to base that belief on. It does feel that Turki likes Fury or the fights he can make with Fury and that the Briton is/would get A-side treatment. Hopefully not.

Edit : John Fury shouldn't be in the corner. Steward said so and he hasn't been seen yet in Riyadh.
 
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Plastic Evra said:
Everyone gets that vibe, heh ?

I don't think there was (yet) a massive controversy on any decision for one of those Saudi promoted fights. Some of the Saudi fighters appearing in prelims got very charitable results but that's it. Bivol Beterbiev it tracked with the general consensus as far as we can tell (I personally thought Bivol maybe won that) and the Ford-Ball fight was an activity vs accuracy dilemma you often see.

I don't know there's anything rational to base that belief on. It does feel that Turki likes Fury or the fights he can make with Fury and that the Briton is/would get A-side treatment. Hopefully not.

Edit : John Fury shouldn't be in the corner. Steward said so and he hasn't been seen yet in Riyadh.
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I think it’s worth a cheeky bet you know. They’re pretty evenly matched anyway, Fury will probably come in better than before….ill be going for it
 
If Fury has put in the work he could win it. He always says he does, but I think the last time he actually did was when he had Ben Davison in his corner before splitting from him in the leadup to the Wilder rematch. I still reckon Davison was sacked due to the workload being too much for Fury.
 
That face off was so intense. I was tipping Usyk before but Fury looks a different animal this time.
 
Fury 3/1 to win by decision is ridiculous odds. Could be proven wrong but this should be another close fight and can easily see it swinging his way if he’s more switched on in this second fight. The first was much closer than some people want to admit.
 
The man himself gave some insight to his comeback.



Hopefully, he also practices 11min staredown, which seems to be the norm these days :) .
 
Definitely one guy who shouldn’t make a late comeback. Chinny and tentative even at the peak of his powers. I do like the suggestion in the comments of him fighting Jake Paul though.
 
Fury coming in heavy. 281 pounds but more likely 275 as he was fully dressed. Still a huge difference between them.

Fury did well first fight, gave him five rounds; but making the fight dirty is the best chance against Usyk. He's just too good to beat in a fair fight.

Can expect leaning and grabbing from the off.
 
LDUred said:
Fury coming in heavy. 281 pounds but more likely 275 as he was fully dressed. Still a huge difference between them.

Fury did well first fight, gave him five rounds; but making the fight dirty is the best chance against Usyk. He's just too good to beat in a fair fight.

Can expect leaning and grabbing from the off.
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Do you think Fury has the power to knock him out? I’ve never been impressed by fury’s power
 
As good as Usky was last time Fury had a lot of success during the fight but during these periods he decide to play the idiot and not capitalise on his success. Usyk on the other hand weathered the storm and picked away at Fury until he eventually worn him down. It wasn't a landslide, he won the fight but it definitely wasn't as wide gap as some seem to remember it.

Fury is more than capable of coming back focused and taking the fight to Usyk, he's far the heavier man. He hits Usyk he hurts him, he stops the stupid behavior he could even put him down. If he goes down he could lose all the composure he's renowned for.

Fury has had his doubters his whole career, he wasn't given a chance against Klitch, he outboxed him on the move. He came back from 26 stone and beat Wilder (in his prime) three times (he won the first). In my opinion he totally underestimated Usyk first time round and got a rude awakening, he thought he could bully the little man and found out you need to be totally switched on the full fight instead of moments.
 
The Cat said:
10pm uk time
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Code

Usyk v Fury 2 Reignited card fight times

Fight UK (GMT) US - ET Saudi Arabia (KSA)
Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury 11.00pm 6.00pm 1.00am
Moses Itauma vs. Demsey McKean 9.55pm 4.55pm 12.55am
Serhii Bohachuk vs. Ishmael Davis 9.00pm 4.00pm 12.00am
Johnny Fisher vs. Dave Allen 8.07pm 3.07pm 11.07pm
Peter McGrail vs. Rhys Edwards 7.20pm 2.20pm 10.20pm
Isaac Lowe vs. Lee McGregor 6.32pm 1.32pm 9.32pm
Daniel Lapin vs Dylan Colin 5.47pm 12.47pm 8.47pm
Andrii Novytskyi vs Edgar Ramirez 5.00pm
 
T00lsh3d said:
Do you think Fury has the power to knock him out? I’ve never been impressed by fury’s power
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The extra weight does definitely make a difference and while Usyk is just so fast and elusive, a stoppage for me is more realistic for Fury than points.
 
I'd like Usyk to win and retired undefeated. He's a great character and boxer. Will just sit right in the world.
 
SilentWitness said:
I'd like Usyk to win and retired undefeated. He's a great character and boxer. Will just sit right in the world.
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This! He is pretty no nonsense and respectable to the sport.

Think he will do him again anyway, saying that Fury was doing well in the earlier rounds against him so if that happens again then could be interesting.

Could also see some form of a draw too.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Do you think Fury has the power to knock him out? I’ve never been impressed by fury’s power
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I think so - mainly due to the size difference. Whenever he caught Usyk in the first fight, he was definitely feeling it!

This one is a toss up, however I think with Usyk's unreal footwork and superior cardio, Usyk could win again.

What would be interesting is whether Usyk can apply his early pressure without being hit too much. If I were him, if Fury comes out hunting and swinging, I'll change tact and run for a few rounds, allowing Fury to gas himself out.

Fury though is probably too smart not to react to that himself! Really intriguing this one!
 
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Glorio said:
I think so - mainly due to the size difference. Whenever he caught Usyk in the first fight, he was definitely feeling it!

This one is a toss up, however I think with Usyk's unreal footwork and superior cardio, Usyk could win again.

What would be interesting is whether Usyk can apply his early pressure without being hit too much. If I were him, if Fury comes out hunting and swinging, I'll change tact and run for a few rounds, allowing Fury to gas himself out.

Fury though is probably too smart not to react to that himself! Really intriguing this one!
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I’ve got a feeling fury might pull it off this time. Which is a shame because I don’t like him, but I think losing his 0 will have made him knuckle down and take the whole thing more seriously
 
Usyk is weak downstairs and if Fury works concertedly to the body - especially with the heavier weight and leaning - it's going to be a really tough fight for Usyk. Having said that, that extra weight is going to drain Fury against someone who has even more stamina than he does.

This'll be a fight of two halves, imo: first half heavily favours Fury, especially if he works to the body; second half, if Usyk survives, will have Fury burn out in terms of output and that'd be when Usyk can turn the screw again.

I expect Fury to be much meaner and focused on an objective tonight. I'd favour him for the size difference and Usyk's weakness to the body. I think he'll target it relentlessly and tie him up outside of that, plus the uppercut and hitting with the other hand in the clinch all favour Fury. The ref actually determines how much of the above he gets away with too.

6-4 in favour of Fury, for me.
 
Fury with the extra weight is looking for a knock out in the first half of the fight imo. If he doesn't get the knockout in the first 6 rounds I think Usyk sales through the fight and wins by 2/3 rounds
 
Fortitude said:
Usyk is weak downstairs and if Fury works concertedly to the body - especially with the heavier weight and leaning - it's going to be a really tough fight for Usyk. Having said that, that extra weight is going to drain Fury against someone who has even more stamina than he does.

This'll be a fight of two halves, imo: first half heavily favours Fury, especially if he works to the body; second half, if Usyk survives, will have Fury burn out in terms of output and that'd be when Usyk can turn the screw again.

I expect Fury to be much meaner and focused on an objective tonight. I'd favour him for the size difference and Usyk's weakness to the body. I think he'll target it relentlessly and tie him up outside of that, plus the uppercut and hitting with the other hand in the clinch all favour Fury. The ref actually determines how much of the above he gets away with too.

6-4 in favour of Fury, for me.
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You think it’ll end up on the cards?
 
T00lsh3d said:
You think it’ll end up on the cards?
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Really depends on Usyk; if he can get through the first half of the fight and still has enough in the tank, he might get a late stoppage, otherwise it'll likely go to the decision.

Fury has backed himself with that extra weight to get things done early, or at least wear Usyk down so much, that he's not his usual self later in the fight. If he works the body hard enough (Usyk really doesn't like that), he may get an opening for an uppercut, which if connects flush, could see the fight end early, but I think that's less likely than either a TKO, or a late rally from Usyk if Fury has knackered himself out chasing the stoppage.
 
It's difficult to be certain Usyk can stop Fury (though I think it's possible, Usyk may have "solved" the Fury problem so to speak). He came close the first fight and Fury's chin is suspect but Usyk is not that sort of KO artist. Likewise the Brit stopping Usyk seems a bit of a long shot.

Going to the final bell favours Usyk because there's no doubt he's the better boxer overall.
 
Fortitude said:
Really depends on Usyk; if he can get through the first half of the fight and still has enough in the tank, he might get a late stoppage, otherwise it'll likely go to the decision.

Fury has backed himself with that extra weight to get things done early, or at least wear Usyk down so much, that he's not his usual self later in the fight. If he works the body hard enough (Usyk really doesn't like that), he may get an opening for an uppercut, which if connects flush, could see the fight end early, but I think that's less likely than either a TKO, or a late rally from Usyk if Fury has knackered himself out chasing the stoppage.
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No one likes that. I'm not sure it's a particular weakness of Usyk. If it's from the Dubois incident, anyone hit flush by Dubois on that part of their body will know about it.

However, the fact is Fury was catching him with good, meaty body shots because no matter how skillful one is, the body is a bigger more stationary target than the head. So it could definitely come into play.

There's no clear favourite. Fury can win this but Usyk can as well and I hope he does.
 
Tyson has never been a knockout boxer, so his going heavy vs. Usyk is curious to say the least and it's going to backfire on him big time.

If and when Tyson, carrying all that extra weight, doesn't knock out Usyk, it's going to make it easier for Usyk to have the greater longevity in the fight and make the boxing count.

This isn't a knockout specialist putting on the pounds, afterall. This is a guy getting fat so he can clinch and lean on Usyk all fight, but he's too clever, too nimble, too accurate and too quick to get baited into that.

Usyk over 12 rounds. Unanimous.
 
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